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Old 02-19-2019, 06:28 AM   #1
JRTJH
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Forum weight police

This "editorial" doesn't apply to any specific thread, there are several current threads that fall into the same category, so if, when reading this, you "see yourself" maybe "gander to the nearest mirror"... If it doesn't apply to you, thanks for being a nice player in the sand-box.....

There are some significant differences in opinions when it comes to towing heavy with a "not heavy vehicle".

Some say, "You CAN'T do it, and I'll report you if you try", (hopefully none of us are in that category)

Some say, "You shouldn't do it, and here's why" (a much more "reasoned" approach).

Some say, "You'll be OK, I do it all the time" (about as irresponsible as a comment can be)

Some say, "I do it, but you're not smart enough/experienced enough to do it" (talk about ego...)

Some say, "Buy a new truck, or trade the trailer, it's your only solution." (OK, who's going to start the Go Fund Me page???)

Some say, "Who me? Why worry?" (I know quite a few "ostrich approach/wake up in a new world every day" kind of people, we all do.)

Some say, "Well, what's the problem? I don't understand, but here's my opinon anyway"....... (nothing to add, but I'm going to say something anyway)

The bottom line, I think, is that none of us can "walk in another member's shoes," although we may be in exactly the same situation, our solution may well be dramatically different. The objective, at least I think the objective SHOULD BE to inform the new buyer, the inexperienced RV'er, the "information seeker" with information so they can make their own decision. The decision that's right for them, not the one we'd make with their money.....

Sometimes it's difficult to see someone take the plunge, knowing what happened when we did it. Ask any mother who sends their first-born kid to school how they felt that first day.... But, none of us are Mom, Dad or even an aunt or uncle, so provide the information, clearly and objectively, discuss points made by other members if you disagree, but don't let it become so "personal that you get offended" and don't offend someone else because they don't see it "YOUR WAY"............

That said, being a member of the "Forum Weight Police" should be an honor, not a derogatory way to "slap someone".

I promise, spring is coming, camping season will soon be here, cabin fever will subside and each of these threads will "fade into the past" just like those that came before them (that we no longer talk about) and those that will show up tomorrow, and the next day and the day after that......

Objectively offer advice, don't take disagreement personally, don't try to "enforce" and play nice guys......
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:14 AM   #2
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John, Very well stated.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:45 AM   #3
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X2 well said.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:52 AM   #4
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My name is Chip Bruce and I endorse this message.Click image for larger version

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Old 02-19-2019, 08:30 AM   #5
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And meanwhile I'll just be boogying on down the road.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:30 AM   #6
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Better to err on the side of safety.

Getting that message across, especially to those with

low levels of knowledge and/or experience, or

much too cavalier an attitude,

sometimes takes a bit of strongly worded vehemence.

Remember we are the counterbalance to all the sales types saying "no worries she'll be right" out there.

If their own lives were the only ones threatened, maybe "yah, let them find out for themselves" would be more appropriate.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:50 AM   #7
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John, very well thought out and very well stated. I remember a time, back in my early days here and after I had been educated by you and others about about how to do the numbers, what they meant, and how it affected MY towing scenario. I was very grateful that some of the more knowledgeable folks had taken my barrage of questions, private messages and such, to offer the help that I so desperately needed. The problem was that I was so happy with my newly found knowledge, that I was....let's say a bit over enthusiastic to jump in. I remember that there was a new person to our forum who had just posted to tell us all about their new 5th wheel trailer...and how great they thought it was for them. I jumped right in and started talking numbers and payload capacities, etc and basically told them they bought too big of a trailer for what their truck was capable of. It wasn't until a few days later that I realized that I was so anxious the help, that I didn't even take the time to say hello or welcome to the forum....or glad you're here....nothing. I was embarrassed by my behavior and felt really bad and was hoping that my first impression to them didn't drive them away from our group. Even though I had nothing but good intentions, my delivery and timing was HORRIBLE. Talk about probably bursting someone's bubble, most likely I did. They came on here to share Their joy and happiness, and I turned out to be the "Grim reaper".....maybe.

My point is this. I've not forgotten doing that and I've not forgotten how it would have made me feel if the tables were turned, so I try to keep that in mind before I jump in with my mask and cape on, wearing the W.P. on my chest....and comment on the possibilities of someone making a bad choice on their truck/trailer choice. Lesson Learned!
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:58 AM   #8
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Bound to happen from time to time especially from keyboards with egos Mind you I haven't read any of those particular threads but I do agree John. Doesn't make sense getting aggressive about R'ving while posting. I could see it if you're actually R'ving while drinking Kidding of course, but yes these forums are all about info and helping which does include some ego driven debating.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:47 AM   #9
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Yes, being welcoming and gentle with noobs is very important for the forum's culture.

Everyone everywhere should strive to stay mindful and as kind & compassionate in word & deed, as much as possible.

But that is IMO a completely separate issue from the importance of giving objectively accurate advice and information on this topic and any other safety related issue.

A noob messing with their mains power panel is a great example, strongly worded opinions critical of their risky behaviour should override concerns about hurting their feelings.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #10
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Hey, I'm an a-hole in real life too... just ask my DW & coworkers.. [emoji16]
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:09 PM   #11
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Hey, I'm an a-hole in real life too... just ask my DW & coworkers.. [emoji16]
At the risk of ruining your "reputation", you've always been nice to me. Either I'm "special"....or you just plain feel sorry for me! No need to answer that on a public forum!
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by John61CT View Post
Better to err on the side of safety.

Getting that message across, especially to those with

low levels of knowledge and/or experience, or

much too cavalier an attitude,

sometimes takes a bit of strongly worded vehemence.

Remember we are the counterbalance to all the sales types saying "no worries she'll be right" out there.

If their own lives were the only ones threatened, maybe "yah, let them find out for themselves" would be more appropriate.
I agree with the first post, but the last sentence of this post says it for me.
Sometimes we should be more assertive with people who are heading into danger. We'd do it for our friends and relatives, why not do it for other forumites? But just as important, we should do it for ourselves. We might get tangled up with some wildly swaying rig that is too heavy a trailer being towed by too light a TV. We've all seen the pictures of how that turns out. But even if we're not directly caught up in an accident, we should try to prevent some people's actions from bringing the wroth of the authorities down on all of our heads.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:56 PM   #13
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I know, I'll probably get hammered from someone.
The following is from a NHTSA Q&A PDF. I think it says it best and I refer to it often.

"The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use."


See item #8 in the PDF. All of the bullets are informative.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/importing-vehi...ication-faqs-1
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:21 PM   #14
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Thanks John.

When I first joined, I figured I was good with the weights. After being informed, by some members with a slight harshness, I broke into a cold sweat. I felt like I had made a huge mistake. I tried to trade in my truck for a larger one, wasn't going to happen with what I owed and was about to owe. And trust me I wish I could have. It;s not that I'm grossly over weight with my rig, but I am at the upper most limit that is acceptable.
I did the only thing I can at this point. Better shocks, better tires on TT, weigh the rigs and everything that goes into them and ensure that the load is balanced (bought a tongue weight scale), check pressures.
As I towed it last year, I did not have a problem, I took my time, after all I was not in a rush, watched my speed, and most importantly, checked all the boxes for getting ready to tow and dropping the trailer. I think as long as I respect the fact that I am towing a big box and pay attention. I should be ok.
I definitely want a larger vehicle, but that is two yrs out. So I have to deal with what I have.
It's all I can do.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #15
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Thanks John.

When I first joined, I figured I was good with the weights. After being informed, by some members with a slight harshness, I broke into a cold sweat. I felt like I had made a huge mistake. I tried to trade in my truck for a larger one, wasn't going to happen with what I owed and was about to owe. And trust me I wish I could have. It;s not that I'm grossly over weight with my rig, but I am at the upper most limit that is acceptable.
I did the only thing I can at this point. Better shocks, better tires on TT, weigh the rigs and everything that goes into them and ensure that the load is balanced (bought a tongue weight scale), check pressures.
As I towed it last year, I did not have a problem, I took my time, after all I was not in a rush, watched my speed, and most importantly, checked all the boxes for getting ready to tow and dropping the trailer. I think as long as I respect the fact that I am towing a big box and pay attention. I should be ok.
I definitely want a larger vehicle, but that is two yrs out. So I have to deal with what I have.
It's all I can do.

Dan, you have entered a situation where many others have preceeded you. I think the most important things we can do are 1) hopefully be in contact with a prospective RV buyer prior to their purchase so that they will understand the weight relationships and what they need to take into consideration to be safe, 2) offer advice to anyone that is already in that "upside down" predicament to possibly find a way out and 3) do the best we can to make sure a person knows the limits and, if there is no other option, ways to mitigate any possible catastrophies.

Lots of folks fall into that trap unknowingly and it can cost a bundle to get out. Sometimes the financial aspect just won't let you do it - I've lived that life and understand completely. In that case there isn't much you can do except what you have done, I have done and many others. Knowing where you are at exactly on weights and what to do about trying to minimize overload is of paramount importance to me. I almost killed myself once upon a time because I just didn't pay attention/didn't know/didn't think. I wish that on no one. It is no fun having to weigh and position every item then leave those "fun" things at home because you can't carry them - but that is what you do to be as safe as you can. Thanks.

I would just suggest that you keep that new truck at the top of your priority list and get it when the time comes so that you can enjoy that trailer without worrying about being overloaded.

Danny
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:24 PM   #16
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Thanks Danny,

My uncle saw my trailer, liked my truck. I warned him and tried to inform him of what he needs to do to be safe and not make the same mistake I did. Didn't he buy an '09 1500 GM and a 30' trailer
All I can do now is hope he doesn't screw up on the road.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:37 PM   #17
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It;s not that I'm grossly over weight with my rig, but I am at the upper most limit that is acceptable.
I did the only thing I can at this point.

*** I took my time, after all I was not in a rush, watched my speed ***
Yes that last will make all the difference in the world.

Euro-style requirements for example are just crazy unsafe in the U.S. where people just expect to keep going 70+mph even through the mountains surrounded by semi-trailers.

Pottering along the back roads at ~40mph, frequent stops to walk around have look-see, check the chains & feel the tires, will make up for all kinds of "sins" and IMO can also,be a much more enjoyable way to travel.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:07 PM   #18
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With some people it doesn't matter how many times they are told, it just doesn't sink in. I have a couple of friends who were/are that way. The first after years of towing his 33' TT with 1/2 tons, they didn't move if there was a breeze, he bought a 3/4 Diesel. When he got home from the first trip with the new truck he told me he wished he'd have listened to me years before. The other guy is down south right now using a Tundra to haul his 27' 5th wheel. Last time my wife talked with his she was told how he is going to be beefing it up when they get back. He'd already put different tires plus a helper spring on it before he left although he didn't have a clue as to what ply the tires were as they were what the salesperson at the tire store recommended. I've basically given up trying to advice him as he doesn't want to listen to me just the sales people. As to why he bought the Tundra instead of a 3/4 ton, he wanted the gas mileage and being the Tundra was a V8 and rated to haul what his trailer weighed he figured he was fine
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:21 PM   #19
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My name is Chip Bruce and I endorse this message.Attachment 20405
Alfred E Newman it's not right but that's the way it is and it looks to be over half the folks towing are over loaded one way or another.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:15 PM   #20
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And unlike the rest of the developed world, in America "enforcement" has been privatized to the insurance companies, you think everything's fine until the day it isn't,

everything goes pear-shaped, and since you're illegal copper stuffs the "reckless driving" ticket in your shirt pocket as the paramedics load your arse into the ambulance

hopefully you didn't kill anyone, but regardless could be millions of liability and all those premiums you paid over the years might as well ha ve been tossed out the window,

insurance company's free to walk away leave you and your dependants holding the bag.
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