Some overhead lights and speakers not working

[handycoordination]

So I bought a Laredo 31RL travel trailer not too long ago, and it looks like I might be having some electrical issues. 4 of the 15v overhead lights and 2 of the overhead speakers aren't working at all. They worked when I looked at the unit before I bought it and it's only some of them (I marked which are and are not working on a little map if that helps). I replaced all the bulbs to no avail. I'm a bit stumped as to what would cause it or how to fix it, especially since it's not all of them that are out. I'm not finding any evidence of rodent and all my breakers look fine.
Heck, I don't even know if any of these are related, but the bathroom light is most important because that's the only light in the room and I'd like to be able to use it after dark.

[LHaven]

Not to be a downer, but I've never found any evidence of rodents in my rig, either... other than the five wires they have chewed in half. Your problem sounds like a classic case.

(Well, that's slightly untrue -- when I removed my bedroom skylight cowl to see if it was prewired for a fan, it was obvious that something had relocated vast quantities of the ceiling insulation on one side.)

[handycoordination]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Not to be a downer, but I've never found any evidence of rodents in my rig, either... other than the five wires they have chewed in half. Your problem sounds like a classic case.

(Well, that's slightly untrue -- when I removed my bedroom skylight cowl to see if it was prewired for a fan, it was obvious that something had removed vast quantities of the ceiling insulation on one side.)

That's... unfortunate to hear, but thanks for letting me know . How would I even go about fixing it? Just remove a ceiling panel to see if I can spot chewed-through wires or what?


Also-- I live in it full-time now and haven't heard any movement or noticed any insulation missing despite replacing all my skylights. Not sure if that changes anything but I thought it'd be worth mentioning.

[LHaven]

If we are talking about rodents we would almost certainly be talking above your ceiling, since that's where your affected wiring runs appear to be.

Speaker holes are relatively nice and big -- drop the speakers and have a look around with a mirror or an "industrial proctoscope" ($20, LINK) for signs of cable damage or mouse parties. The lights have holes big enough for the scope as well. You can go behind your A/C filter and temporarily untape the (rather large) wire feed-thru holes for a good over-ceiling view. Skylight/fan skirts, as I mentioned, assuming the mice were't there yet when you did your work.

Some of the time, the DC wiring Keystone uses isn't zipcord, so you could try tugging each separate conductor at each dead fixture to see if it comes loose (start on the end of the bad run nearest your fusebox). But it might not come loose, as mice are little bastards that can make a conductor intermittent without chewing all the way through the insulation (photo).

I'd start on the fixture nearest the fusebox. At its switch, test with a VOM for 12V between the + feed (color stripe) and known good frame ground. If none, try feeding 12V to that conductor. If all your lights come on, you have to run a new wire between there and the proper fuse.

If there is 12V, check ohms between the other wire (plain white) and known frame ground. If it isn't zero, try patching frame ground onto that wire. If all your lights come on, you need to run a new ground from there to the proper fuse.

If there is good power and ground at the switch, then make the same tests at the light fixture, which had better fail. If you're careful, you can use the old wires as a pullcord to pull new wires. (I always pull paracord as an intermediate step because it's light and doesn't snag.)

Attacking the speakers would be a little different. I'd use a toner and trace the wire in the ceiling until tone stops. I realize most people don't have toners, so it may be easier just to use the old wires as pullcords for new wires.

[bobbecky]

Your lighting will normally not be powered by the breakers which will be 120 volts AC. What you should be checking is the 12 volt DC fuses.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Your lighting will normally not be powered by the breakers which will be 120 volts AC. What you should be checking is the 12 volt DC fuses.

Thanks, I entirely missed his reference to breakers.

[handycoordination]

Great, thanks! I'll see what I can do about it all. Also, the fuses look fine too, that was a misspeak on my part.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by handycoordination

Great, thanks! I'll see what I can do about it all. Also, the fuses look fine too, that was a misspeak on my part.

A couple of "common problems" with the fuse panel:

1. Loose contacts on the panel which cause the fuse to not slide in properly and not make good contact. Check for looseness in the fuse slots and squeeze them together as needed.

2. Loose wires on the terminals, both on the "12 volt supply side" and on the "circuit output after the fuse side"...

While checking the wires for tightness, might as well go ahead and remove the power center faceplate and check the 120 VAC side connections as well. The factory is not known for "quality tightening the terminal screws" and towing over our "wunnerful roads" can vibrate them loose, and any loose wire is an excellent excuse for those electrons to take a break (at your expense)...

[wiredgeorge]

There are times when fuses that "look fine" ain't fine. Check continuity using a multimeter by placing probes on metal contacts.

[LHaven]

It's obviously worth a try because it's so easy to find it or rule it out. But with the speakers also gone, I'm thinking it's too coincidental.

[handycoordination]

I figured it out. The good news is it wasn't rodent damage, but the bad news is it turns out I'm a little stupid. I didn't realize that there was a wall switch for them, I thought it was just the switch on the lights themselves The speakers were just old and bad I think. Thank you everyone for help, and I'll be sure to come back to this when I do have real electrical issues.

[bobbecky]

Don't feel bad. We have the pancake lights on our ceiling in the livingroom area and each has a switch on it, but there is a wall switch that controls them as a group. Some years ago, we had a bunch of granddaughters spend the night in the livingroom and I guess they weren't aware of the wall switch. When they decided it was time for lights out, they must have gotten a broom from the entry closet and switched off each light with the broom handle. I wasn't aware of what they did and figured the switch was bad or a fuse blew. I finally got a ladder in and at the first light, there was power, and that's when I discovered what they had done.

[LHaven]

Heh! Usually lights with a button in the middle don't also have a wall switch associated with them, but I suppose it all depends on what parts the factory was short of that day.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by LHaven

Heh! Usually lights with a button in the middle don't also have a wall switch associated with them, but I suppose it all depends on what parts the factory was short of that day.

Our camper came that way. One switch on the wall where the other switches are located will control the first 4 "pancake " lights down the center of the living room. All those lights also have a switch on the light as well. Seems logical to me so that if you enter/exit at night you can turn the lights on or off without stumbling in the dark trying to find a ceiling light.

[Folkie]

Our camper didn't come with individual buttons for the lights which are controlled by a wall switch. I eventually swapped out four so I could have more control over them while boondocking. For example we have two bathroom lights which is usually more light than we need especially for a late night visit.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Folkie

Our camper didn't come with individual buttons for the lights which are controlled by a wall switch. I eventually swapped out four so I could have more control over them while boondocking. For example we have two bathroom lights which is usually more light than we need especially for a late night visit.

We bought a set of 3 "battery powered motion sensor lights" and installed one by the entry door, one at the top of the steps up to the bedroom and one on the bathroom counter next to the overhead light switch. It's just enough light for "late night visits" or to see well enough to find the light switches and to keep you from falling down the steps at night. About $4 per light and use 3 AAA batteries which last all season without replacement.

https://www.amazon.com/AMIR-Sensing-...2&sr=8-15&th=1

[Folkie]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

We bought a set of 3 "battery powered motion sensor lights" and installed one by the entry door, one at the top of the steps up to the bedroom and one on the bathroom counter next to the overhead light switch. It's just enough light for "late night visits" or to see well enough to find the light switches and to keep you from falling down the steps at night. About $4 per light and use 3 AAA batteries which last all season without replacement.

https://www.amazon.com/AMIR-Sensing-...2&sr=8-15&th=1

We also have some battery and rechargeable under cabinet lights for boondocking. The motion sensor lights are mostly inside cabinets. We actually have enough ambient light from lighted switches, phone chargers etc. for me to find the bathroom without turning on any additional lights.