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Old 05-14-2019, 12:12 PM   #21
cookinwitdiesel
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Just in the last 10 years trucks got stupid expensive. My dad bought a 3500 Duramax DRW LTZ in 2007 for $45k new.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:27 PM   #22
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Just in the last 10 years trucks got stupid expensive. My dad bought a 3500 Duramax DRW LTZ in 2007 for $45k new.
More electronic goodies, more bling = more money!
Some are made out of recycled beer cans & still expensive!! Drink more beer!
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:14 PM   #23
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Cost too much is putting it mildly! I bought my first vehicle for $50 in 1966. Ford Fairlane in turquoise! Now to consider laying out $50 grand for a truck is crazy. Thanks for the points on diesel advantage, torque and jake brakes!
What? WHAT? Tell me it ain't so!
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Old 05-14-2019, 03:32 PM   #24
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Just in the last 10 years trucks got stupid expensive. My dad bought a 3500 Duramax DRW LTZ in 2007 for $45k new.
Bought my 2015 F350 XL dually for $38K off the showroom floor including TTL, spray in bed liner, & factory 5th wheel hitch installed..

It's all the gee jaws like heated steering wheel, & a/c butt that cost so much..
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:41 AM   #25
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Penny, first of all, welcome to the forum! Great info here and even better information. AND, our opinions are second to none...
Ballpark figures, your RV will weigh about 10K and the hitch weight will be in the 1500# range. Only a 2500 gasser will leave you with any load capacity to spare. A 3500 SRW D-max will also give you load capacity to spare. You aren't in dually territory with your RV, but let me warn you, do NOT let your significant other suggest "Oh, honey, let's stop here at Camping World for a break and just look around!" Does that sound like the voice of experience? I'm the one who made the suggestion and the next thing I know the sales manager is checking to see if we had enough truck to haul the first Raptor!
If you plan on keeping the TT then I recommend a 3500 D-max short bed crew cab with whatever bells and whistles you find necessary. I simply don't recommend the 2500, although the gasser will do what you need.
I don't really have much to offer in way of advanced knowledge concerning your propensity for the used market. Gadgets are pretty cool on the first day and when you're showing your friends the new toy, but how many times do you think I have wanted to remotely start our F-450 from Houston, Texas? Is it absolutely necessary to have your iPhone tell you when your 3500 is ready for service?
I'll warn you, if you pull this to Oklahoma with a gasser, you will not sit around with the boys, having an adult beverage, and brag that you got 14 MPG towing to Oklahoma! Good luck to you on your choice, and have a great trip!
The truck I tow with now replaced an older 2500 was more truck than I needed for my tongue pull Xlite Cougar and that was planned. Well, we made a mistake and stopped at an RV show "to look around" and ended up with an extended stay 5th wheel, 35 feet GVWR 15,000 lbs. I still have room to grow, but, get something that is more than what you need. You never know what happens when you "just go look".
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:00 AM   #26
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If one knows they will be doing some hard towing under some tough conditions frequently, then diesel is the better choice. But the gas powered 3/4 tons are no slouch and can be pretty darn cost efficient. In many cases, equal or even lower in initial cost than their 1/2 ton little brothers.

My 2015 Chevy 2500 is flex fuel. When prices moved very favorable, it went on E85 fuel and has been exclusively for the last two years. Even with the lower mpg of E85, not even a diesel 2500 can match the low fuel cost per mile.

And for those occasional hard pulls, the gassers can sometimes do a stellar job. We live rural. It is two miles of gravel roads to the nearest hard road from our house. Due to terrible county maintenance and some poor weather, it can be a real mud bog at times. Had my Freightliner class 8 semi tractor at home one weekend when we got an unexpected warm up and things thawed. When I tried to head down the road with the truck, it just got buried in the mud. I had my wife bring out our 2015 Silverado 2500 6.0 gasser and we strapped it on the front of the semi tractor. She pulled my 21,000 lb truck thru all that muck over rolling hills to the hard road. The pickup never stalled, never acted like it was under a terrible strain, and never had to be revved beyond 3500 RPM (the 6.0 gasser reaches 90% torque at 2100 RPM).

And using E85, it averages about 11 mpg on the stuff for all miles.... city, highway, rural gravel, hauling, etc. Sounds terrible, but at the current price of $1.66 a gallon for E85 near me, that comes out at 15 cents a mile fuel cost. Diesel is going for $3.08 near me. For a similar 3/4 ton diesel to break even on 15 cent a mile fuel cost, it would have to average for ALL miles (city, highway, hauling, etc) between 21 and 22 mpg. Might be able to pull off good mpg only on highway, but not likely to match that kind of average for all miles and get down to 15 cent a mile fuel cost average. And that is still not factoring in the higher initial cost, higher maintenance cost, DEF, etc for the diesel.

If one truly needs a diesel for what they are doing, then go for it. But don't poo poo the gasser versions. There is a good reason why the majority of 3/4 and 1 ton pickups are gasser versions and why that is also the preferred way to go for the vast majority of commercial users of such pickups. Fleets demand reliability and ability to get the job done while being low cost in terms of maintenance.

And newer big gassers are coming out. GM is moving from the 6.0L to the 6.6L base gasser in their 2500/3500 platform. There is even talk of GM bringing out a modern version of the 8.1L gasser. Ford offers the 7.3L gasser. All of these good 'ol push rod engines designed for low grunt, work, and reliability. Even in the medium duty commercial market, gassers are replacing diesels as the preferred engine. Fuso mentioned in a fleet magazine article that they will be putting the 6.0L Vortec GM engine like the one in my 2500 in its 4500/5500 rated straight trucks. The commercial desire for diesel is dropping fast and the newer gas engines with DI and other features are becoming better and more efficient.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #27
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Cost too much is putting it mildly! I bought my first vehicle for $50 in 1966. Ford Fairlane in turquoise! Now to consider laying out $50 grand for a truck is crazy. Thanks for the points on diesel advantage, torque and jake brakes!
Yeah, even the diesel pickups are way over priced. I bought my 2013 Freightliner class 8 semi truck for a total of $112K including fees and everything except tags. And it is far more than just 2-3 times the truck of a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel Tonka toy. The diesels are good pickups but not nearly worth the price that they are going for.

But to be fair, all consumer vehicles are over priced. On an inflation adjusted basis following historical vehicle pricing trends, today's vehicle MSRP values should be 1/4 to 1/3 less than what they are. And the OEM's wonder why they are having a hard time. Go figure.
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:36 AM   #28
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IMHO if towing 10k+ you need a diesel!
They are not the stinky, rattling smoke machines of a few years ago. Today they're quiet, VERY powerful & most are as well appointed as luxury cars.
We've had a diesel dually as our daily driver for the last 13-14 years & the only complaint either of us have is parking, usually park further out.
As to higher maintenance costs I can honestly say that I have not had or noticed much difference over the gassers, that comment is coming from folks that haven't driven one regularly for any length of time.
On the plus side most newer diesels are warrantied for 100k, if it ain't broke by then it's probably not going to.
Maybe the new turbo gasser will be as powerful as a diesel, but if the big displacement doesn't get any better mileage than in the past the diesel will still get better mileage towing. Example the Ford V10 was in every gas motorhome for the past several years & did a good job, would pass everything on the highway but a gas station, 6-8 mpg, whereas my Duramax towing a 16.5k 5er, approximately same weight as a gas motorhome, would get 10.5-11.5 consistantly.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:05 AM   #29
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As to higher maintenance costs I can honestly say that I have not had or noticed much difference over the gassers, that comment is coming from folks that haven't driven one regularly for any length of time.
On the plus side most newer diesels are warrantied for 100k, if igasserst broke by then it's probably not going to.
Maybe the new turbo gasser will be as powerful as a diesel, but if the big displacement doesn't get any better mileage than in the past the diesel will still get better mileage towing. Example the Ford V10 was in every gas motorhome for the past several years & did a good job, would pass everything on the highway but a gas station, 6-8 mpg, whereas my Duramax towing a 16.5k 5er, approximately same weight as a gas motorhome, would get 10.5-11.5 consistantly.
Well, compare the amount of oil for each oil change and filter cost. Then add in fuel filter replacements, especially more frequent in the cold climates, compared to gas versions. How much DEF is required for a gasser? None. Compare a diesel fuel pump or injector price to a gasser. I go thru 21,000 gallons of diesel a year in my commercial stuff and have owned and operated diesels of various varieties for 50 years. Yeah, diesels cost more to maintain and operate overall than gassers. Diesels have their niche, but it isn't as big of a niche as some would like to believe.

When my flex fuel gasser 2500 is really laying it down, it gets about 7-8 mpg on E85. At 1.66 a gallon, that equates to about 23 cents a mile fuel cost when really working hard. With diesel at 3.08 in my area, for a diesel pickup moving a similar GCWR over similar terrain, it would have to get almost 14 mpg just to break even on the fuel cost per mile. Possible, but still, that is only break even. Would have to get 16-17 mpg working hard to make it really worth considering. Not likely.

The only appreciable advantage to using diesel is if one is dealing with long, steep grades frequently and towing frequently year round. of course, fuel costs vary across the country and what I outlined above may not work for others. But it does in my area so diesel is not a realistic option for me in my pickup trucks. Just my heavy trucks.
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:27 PM   #30
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I can't speak for others but my 2 diesels the oil got changed once a year, about 10k miles, compared to every 3k on a gasser, the fuel filter at the DIC % which was about 18 months, used 2.5 gallons of DEF every 3500 miles at $10-12 per 2.5 gal jug or 1/2 that price at the pump at truck stops, most all of the other maintenance is exactly the same as a gasser. The only expensive maintenance I had on 2 GMC trucks was all covered under warranty, YMMV depending brand.
The other advantage, especially if towing large long rvs, is fueling. Most gas stations are very tight or next to impossible to drag a big rv through to fill up, whereas diesels towing the same rv drive right up the pump at any truck stop & with the difference in fuel mileage towing with gas as opposed to a diesel to me offsets the price differences.
If you don't want a diesel, by all means don't buy one!
After our experiences fulltiming for 10+ years, 300k+ miles with 160k+ towing, I can't imagine the wear & tear plus maintenance cost on a gas engine/transmission towing the 16.5k 5ers we've had that many miles, probably still be trying to get up some of the mountains.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:40 PM   #31
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I can't speak for others but my 2 diesels the oil got changed once a year, about 10k miles, compared to every 3k on a gasser, the fuel filter at the DIC % which was about 18 months, used 2.5 gallons of DEF every 3500 miles at $10-12 per 2.5 gal jug or 1/2 that price at the pump at truck stops, most all of the other maintenance is exactly the same as a gasser. The only expensive maintenance I had on 2 GMC trucks was all covered under warranty, YMMV depending brand.
Well, therein lies the problem. Not sure why you would change oil at 3000 miles on a gasser. I typically never change oil in my gasser vehicles till between 6000 and 7000 miles or one year. Never have to change a fuel filter as it is internal to the fuel pump on all mine. And if I needed DEF, I would pull into any heavy truck dealer shop and have them top it off. The Mack Truck dealership near me will top off the DEF in any vehicle that rolls in, even a VW Jetta, for about $1.80 a gallon. Cheaper than even the truck stop bulk pumps. Allied Oil and Tire near me, which also caters to the heavy truck segment, will likewise top off the DEF of any vehicle that rolls in for about the same price per gallon.

And downtime costs also. And one will have a tough time arguing against the stats that emissions stuff on modern diesels causes more downtime and diagnostic issues than should be. Of course, as some would argue, one can delete that. Let's see, a $4000-$5000 premium to buy a diesel version and then another 2-3 grand to eliminate the emissions junk and void the warranty. Yeah, sounds like a great plan.

This is why I played the Federal regulations game and did an end run. My 2013 Freightliner, I ordered a brand new truck without an engine or transmission. When it showed up, I dropped in a factory remanned, pre-emission Detroit in it along with a reman Eaton 18 speed transmission. Avoided all the problems associated with modern diesels and it was all legal... and a darn sight cheaper. Like about $40K cheaper than buying a new emission laden truck.

And even then, I want nothing to do with diesel in anything but my commercial stuff or my property equipment. I see diesel as only a necessary evil, and then only in limited fashion. Never in my personal stuff. But then, I have no real need for it in my personal stuff and cannot envision a scenario that would change that. Especially now that the big block gassers have come back.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:32 PM   #32
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[QUOTE=GMcKenzie;340118]

Hey, the 3/4 ton diesel crew cab has a brochure payload of almost 3600 lbs.

[QUOTE]

That would mean a truck that only weighed 6400 pounds. 3/4 ton (class 2 trucks, have a max GVWR of 10,000). Never going to happen! That number sounds closer to the SRW 3500.
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Old 05-19-2019, 11:41 PM   #33
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Hey, the 3/4 ton diesel crew cab has a brochure payload of almost 3600 lbs.
That would mean a truck that only weighed 6400 pounds. 3/4 ton (class 2 trucks, have a max GVWR of 10,000). Never going to happen! That number sounds closer to the SRW 3500.
Did you look at the link you didn't include in your quote? Payload for the gas 2500 CC is shown as 3862 and diesel at 3597. Reality will be a bit less, but it is what the brochure shows.

SRW 3500 diesel CC have a brochure payload of 4185.
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Old 05-20-2019, 07:38 AM   #34
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Did you look at the link you didn't include in your quote? Payload for the gas 2500 CC is shown as 3862 and diesel at 3597. Reality will be a bit less, but it is what the brochure shows.

SRW 3500 diesel CC have a brochure payload of 4185.
Lets do a little math. If the 3500 SRW above has a 11,500 GVWR +/- and the 2500 have the max 10,000 max GVWR, then the 2500 would have around 1500 pounds less carrying capacity.

4185-1500=2685 pounds +/-, given that the trucks will weight about the same.

On GM site is states that the 2500 standard bed CC 4x4 has 2613 Carrying capacity and the long bed 2356.

These numbers will go down as a truck is featured up, hitch installed etc.

It is unclear if these are 2019 or 2020 numbers, however these to not magically change. The 10,000 class 2 truck is a standard that remains year after year. Trucks to do get a 1000 pounds lighter in a new model year, even with a aluminium body.

https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/sil...tyleOne=398844
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