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Old 05-13-2019, 07:28 AM   #1
BadmanRick
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Dangerous factory wiring beware.

Well we almost lost our 2011 bullet Premier 19FBPR TO FIRE.
Arrived at the campground and began to set up. No 12volts. Heard a strange clicking. Traced it to the front circuit breakers. Took it over to rv repair shop and they found the circuit-breaker was bad and the wires were all burned to the slide switch. He replaced the circuit breaker which he advised was too large for the slide motor. He reran new wiring and found the slide motor had failed and caused the wiring to burn. Almost burned down the camper. He advised the factory put a 50 amp circuit breaker and should have been a 30 amp. He feels the motor shorted out and fried the switch. We were lucky this did not happen while we were sleeping. The way the factory runs the wires has no time or reason. Very difficult to replace the wires if they burn up. Beware if of the switches that control th slides and awning they could burn up.
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Old 05-13-2019, 07:39 AM   #2
CampNBrew2
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Did you buy this trailer new? If not, no telling who replaced what before you got it. Not that I don't believe the factory could make this mistake, we all know the level of craftsmanship we get
I have a Premier as well and its old enough that its time to replace those breakers myself. I'll finally add a battery disconnect at the same time.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #3
BadmanRick
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We bought the trailer new and have not had any problem since new. Only had CW replace the AC thermostat. Rv mechanic feels the slide switch stuck on and the breaker was too large to disconnect fast enough. He is putting the slide on a separate fuse.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:09 AM   #4
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Yikes, glad you came through unscathed. Good call on the extra breaker.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:47 PM   #5
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According to recent email from Lippert, the breakers are not installed by Lippert, but instead, installed by the trailer fabricators. I quote my Lippert response...


"Steve,

You will need to follow the wire from the battery to the breaker and then to the pump assembly and this will ID the correct one. I am not sure what size the coach manufacture installed from factory but the minimum should be 50 amps. If this does not solve the issue, then I would inspect the pump motor solenoid to verify it is sending the correct voltage at all times.

Page 9 is wiring diagram:
https://www.lci1.com/assets/content/...CD_0001749.pdf


Thank you,
Anthony Vega
Customer Service Rep.
Lippert Components "




The Keystone factory installed breaker in my rig was a 30 amper that became unreliable and/or quit after a few years. It was not really happy with my 6 point hydraulic level-up, or my 3 hydraulic slides, and took several tries to set up shop. (The 4th slide was electric.)

I moved up to the 50, and have had no problem since. Just my two cents.

Good Luck,
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:22 PM   #6
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Breakers are sized according to the wiring they feed, not so much the load they serve. (An engineer once explained it to me this way: you plug a house lamp into a 20A outlet, even though the cord on the lamp isn't spec'ed to handle 20A. That doesn't make the breaker in the box incorrect -- it's correct as long as you could run 20A at the outlet.)

If the manufacturer put a 30A breaker where a 50A breaker should have been, I would be worried that he also put 30A wiring where 50A wiring should be on that same circuit. If you replace the breaker without replacing the wiring, you risk setting the wiring on fire under normal operation if the motor is in fact pulling more than 30A.

Of course, I am puzzled by the whole slide thing here, as slides are usually run on 12VDC so you can move them when boondocking, and DC runs through the fuses, not the breakers.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhaven View Post
Breakers are sized according to the wiring they feed, not so much the load they serve. (An engineer once explained it to me this way: you plug a house lamp into a 20A outlet, even though the cord on the lamp isn't spec'ed to handle 20A. That doesn't make the breaker in the box incorrect -- it's correct as long as you could run 20A at the outlet.)

If the manufacturer put a 30A breaker where a 50A breaker should have been, I would be worried that he also put 30A wiring where 50A wiring should be on that same circuit. If you replace the breaker without replacing the wiring, you risk setting the wiring on fire under normal operation if the motor is in fact pulling more than 30A.

Of course, I am puzzled by the whole slide thing here, as slides are usually run on 12VDC so you can move them when boondocking, and DC runs through the fuses, not the breakers.
On "modest sized" travel trailers, there are two "mini circuit breakers" mounted on the trailer bulkhead, just aft of the A-frame. On "luxury trailers" and many fifth wheels, there may be as many as 5 or 6 "mini circuit breakers" located there. They serve to distribute DC power from the battery to various systems in the trailer. They look like this, for the most part, but there are some "exotic, high power breakers" on some systems. Typically, all you'll see on most travel trailers is two, a 30 amp and a 40/50 amp mini breaker, both located on the bulkhead and fed by the positive battery cable.
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Old 05-13-2019, 06:01 PM   #8
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Ihaven Right On In general the fuses/breakers are sized to protect the wiring used in the circuit. As far as your question about breakers there are in line breakers thermal or mechanical in the 12v systems along with 12v fuses found in the power distribution panel.

Edit: guess typing on the same time (slower obviously LOL)
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:50 AM   #9
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Since were on the subject and the OP and my trailers have likely the "same" wiring:

I have 2 mini CBs. I assume 1 is 50A and feeds the fuse panel in the converter, and the other 30A which feeds the slide motor? Are my assumptions correct (in your experience)? I have not had a chance to trace the wiring further.

I need to replace them (simply from age/weather), and will get spares while doing so.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CampNBrew2 View Post
Since were on the subject and the OP and my trailers have likely the "same" wiring:

I have 2 mini CBs. I assume 1 is 50A and feeds the fuse panel in the converter, and the other 30A which feeds the slide motor? Are my assumptions correct (in your experience)? I have not had a chance to trace the wiring further.

I need to replace them (simply from age/weather), and will get spares while doing so.
A point that bears consideration on this topic: There are nearly a million RV's on the road with similar circuit breaker protection for the DC system. There will be some failures and some incidental damage. That's not a reason to "redesign the entire fleet of trailers" because of an occasional melted wire. Nothing is that stringent. If it were, we'd all be "replacing circuit breakers in our houses every time there's an electrical fire one town over......

If I remember my electrical design course material correctly (it's been 50 years) AC circuits are protected for a continuous load rating on the ROMEX and DC circuits are protected for an intermittent load rating on the "single strand wire". In other words, houses are "built for the max use amperage" and RV's are built for the "intermittent" (reasonable) use amperage. That's why Lippert recommended replacing a 30 amp mini-breaker in one of they DC motor systems with a 50 amp breaker without addressing the wiring size.

All that to say, "If it were my trailer, I'd replace worn components with the same amperage that the factory installed as OEM. It's been working for X years without a problem, no need to "invent something that hasn't happened."

It's unfortunate
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:09 PM   #11
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The big difference in the two popular slide systems is hydraulic versus electric

The electric slide gear drive motors look like 30 amp requirement with 10 gauge wiring

Hyd slide system needs an 80 amp breaker per Lippert recommendation. The 50 amp in most cases is not going to work especially during cold weather.

The hyd pump motor will pull well over 65 amps or a bit higher in cold weather

Additionally the wiring for the hyd system is quite stout. Run is from battery to resettable breaker to dual polarity solenoid to motor.

Gauge is around # 4 to 6 at the lightest.

In the original post the Ops issue with burnt wiring and most certainly a burnt switch is a rarity.

I’m also a bit perplexed that the wiring burnt up because IF the resettable breaker was working right it would have constantly opened up due to shorted motor drawing too much current

My Lippert hyd system came with 50 amp and I changed out per their Tech sheet to 80 amp 5 years ago.
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Old 05-21-2019, 02:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
The big difference in the two popular slide systems is hydraulic versus electric

The electric slide gear drive motors look like 30 amp requirement with 10 gauge wiring

Hyd slide system needs an 80 amp breaker per Lippert recommendation. The 50 amp in most cases is not going to work especially during cold weather.

The hyd pump motor will pull well over 65 amps or a bit higher in cold weather

Additionally the wiring for the hyd system is quite stout. Run is from battery to resettable breaker to dual polarity solenoid to motor.

Gauge is around # 4 to 6 at the lightest.

In the original post the Ops issue with burnt wiring and most certainly a burnt switch is a rarity.

I’m also a bit perplexed that the wiring burnt up because IF the resettable breaker was working right it would have constantly opened up due to shorted motor drawing too much current

My Lippert hyd system came with 50 amp and I changed out per their Tech sheet to 80 amp 5 years ago.
My hydro slides are put right on the 50 breaker. I’m switching them over to my bus bar that will be hooked up to a new 80 breaker.

Thanks for pointing us on right direction
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