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Old 04-07-2019, 05:50 PM   #1
sourdough
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New Buyers and Dealers

We see many, many posts of folks buying trailers that they then find are too large for their tow vehicle. Many depend on the selling RV dealer to "assure" them that their particular vehicle is capable. I'm on the Keystone site all the time but never took the time to read the little disclaimers at the bottom. For anyone thinking that the young salesman, maybe 25, that just moved from Burger King, knew all there is to know about your towing situation?.....here's the comment at the bottom of every page....

MAKE SURE YOUR TOW VEHICLE IS COMPATIBLE WITH YOUR KEYSTONE RV. Consult with a motor vehicle manufacturer or dealer concerning the purchase and use of suitable tow vehicles for Keystone products. Owners of Keystone recreational vehicles are solely responsible for the selection and proper use of tow vehicles.

Just thought I'd share.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:49 PM   #2
chuckster57
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I’m happy to report that I have watched our dealership refuse to sell a trailer that is “too much”. I guess that’s how you stay in business 40+ yrs.
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Old 04-07-2019, 07:23 PM   #3
Laredo Tugger
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I totally agree with you Danny.
But try finding a resolution.
Education: I'm sure the RV sales industry is NOT going to welcome info pamphlets describing proper towing vehicles for their specific products.
Certification: This has been discussed on other threads in these forums. You start dabbling with bureaucracy and giving governments the ability to impose fees on what size truck can tow which trailer,and simply put, everyone reading this,hold on to your wallet!
Citation: Have laws changed to universal (federal) standards that regulate tow vehicle/TT combos. And have dealers share liabilities for new sales. Have part of that liability be fines and penalties for knowingly making overweight sales.
Intimidation: Have prospective buyers get on sites like this and get real experienced information,with explanation and get, let's call it "guidance" aka the weight police enforcement. Nothing wrong with this. Seems to be the only thing that is working right now,IMO.

So before anyone here cries foul to the above suggested agendas let me be clear, I do not see any of this happening either. We live in a free country and sometimes that has it faults. One of which appears to be the RV sales industry.People (buyers and dealers) are free to be stupid and careless. How do you control it? I do not know.
I have learned a lot of information on these forums about towing and many other items regarding my fifth wheel and TV. Make this (or any other brand RV) forum required reading before any sale? Yeah, I know.Good luck with that too................
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:18 PM   #4
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Check out the videos in the next thread down.

How do you sell a trailer to a guys when the trailer tells you it’s pin weight and axle weight?

I want to see a 3/4 owner pull on a lot and ask for the in command gvwr package on his toy hauler. Should be a fast education.

Salesmen will have to know how it works and how to interpret the info on the system.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishsizzle View Post
Check out the videos in the next thread down.

How do you sell a trailer to a guys when the trailer tells you it’s pin weight and axle weight?

I want to see a 3/4 owner pull on a lot and ask for the in command gvwr package on his toy hauler. Should be a fast education.

Salesmen will have to know how it works and how to interpret the info on the system.
As reported previously, that program will only work with the In Command system and GM trucks, and I'm sure it won't be a "standard item" on GM trucks, so probably will wind up in the "high tier lines" and not available in the "reasonably priced, popular lines"... However, I completely agree, if there were some program that would flash red lights, blow sirens and ring bells, hopefully about half the new buyers would "take the hint"... the rest, well.......
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Old 04-07-2019, 11:26 PM   #6
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I didn’t see a GM product or a mention of them in the videos. Looked like just a keystone item?
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:26 AM   #7
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I think the bottom line is the salesman or dealers need to be properly educated. At a minimum they should consider if they would let their parents, grandparents or kids drive it and consider them safe before they sell it. Here’s my story FWIW. When I bought my first TT I had a 2013 GMC crew cab with the 4.8 V8 and 3:23 gears. CGVWR was 10K and 4700 was max towing. I had several dealers try to sell me something heavier than what I was asking for (3500-3700) empty. They didn’t even bother to look it up in the book. I don’t even remember what the payload sticker said. That truck pulled my Passport 238ML like a champ. Then I went to the scales fully loaded and I exceeded the GCWR. Neither the truck or TT were over their individual rating. I bought a bigger truck. Eventually the new truck wasn’t enough for what we wanted. It has also been replaced.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:34 AM   #8
Fishsizzle
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Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
I think the bottom line is the salesman or dealers need to be properly educated. At a minimum they should consider if they would let their parents, grandparents or kids drive it and consider them safe before they sell it. Here’s my story FWIW. When I bought my first TT I had a 2013 GMC crew cab with the 4.8 V8 and 3:23 gears. CGVWR was 10K and 4700 was max towing. I had several dealers try to sell me something heavier than what I was asking for (3500-3700) empty. They didn’t even bother to look it up in the book. I don’t even remember what the payload sticker said. That truck pulled my Passport 238ML like a champ. Then I went to the scales fully loaded and I exceeded the GCWR. Neither the truck or TT were over their individual rating. I bought a bigger truck. Eventually the new truck wasn’t enough for what we wanted. It has also been replaced.
Yep...........
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:46 AM   #9
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looked at the Cougar 29RDB ... it is labeled as a "half ton" model ... they also had several other models that all weighed about the same but this is the one that most fit our needs .... afterwards i did some research, got an email from the salesman and here is my email back to him ....

i have been busy researching this since we were there the other day .... here is where i am so far ..
got the blk trk (2019 Ram 1500) weighted on the way home at the landfill, certified scale ... 6420 #s with wife, me and the dog .. includes cap and wooden gun storage box ... door payload sticker for the blk trk is 1577 #s .. Leer cap weights 300 #s .. wooden gun storage box weights 100 #s ... GVW for blk trk is 7100 #s ...B&W Patriot Slider Fth Whl hitch total weight 452 #s (etrailer) ... Cougar 29RDB dry weight is 8325 #s (CW site) cargo capty is 1975 #s which make the 29RDB GVW at 10,300 #s and keystone site says the hitch weight is 1520 #s ... so now to put these numbers together ....
Blk trk real weight = 6420 #s
Leer cap weight = - 300 #s
wood gun storage box = - 100 #s
blk trk real EMPTY = 6020 #s
blk trk GVW = 7100 #s
net payload blk trk = 1080 #s
B&W FW hitch = 452 #s
net payload after hitch = 628 #s
Cougar 29RDB hitch wt = 1520 #s
net payload w/ trl = 892 #s over payload weight

so, i looked at this from a different point of view .... and kept it simple

blk trk payload says 1577 #s
Cougar hitch wt says 1520 #s
net payload is 57 #s for all passengers and cargo in the trk

Ram says my trks GCVWR is 17,000 #s
Cougar say 29RDB GCVWR is 10,300 #s
that leaves 6,700 #s for my trk that has a GVWR of 7,100 #s
therefore loaded for dry camping i can expect the combined vehicle weight to be 400 #s overweight even ignoring the payload problem

the biggest problems is the over payload, the second biggest problem is over GCVWR ... in total review i do not see how ANY Ram 1/2 ton will LEGALLY be able to tow this Fifth Wheel trailer


note: i do NOT think this is what the salesman wanted to hear
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:08 AM   #10
pdaniel
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When I was in the market for a new extended stay 5th wheel the dealer asked about my tow vehicle. He stated is was on me to insure I had sufficient vehicle. So, I told him what I had, he looked up the specs and we went from there. Most of what he had I could tow without issues, so, that opened up the window so to speak.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:10 AM   #11
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We were lucky to work with a dealer that has been in business for quite some time. The guys they have reviewing your vehicle are ardent RV'ers and quite knowledgeable. The salesman has no say when they look at your TV.
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