Using Airbags

[kennyskywalker]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I would like to know how air bags stop tire roll. Good quality shocks would do better at controlling bounce, but even that would not affect tire roll.

I am a member of the don't need bags club!

I've hit some pretty big dips in the road with significant 5ver weight, without vs. with airbags make big difference

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[Tom N OH]

I'll keep my air bags, thank you very much. And you may /think/ your headlights aren't shining for raccoons, but I'd be willing to bet every other person on the road with you at night has a different opinion.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Tom N OH

I'll keep my air bags, thank you very much. And you may /think/ your headlights aren't shining for raccoons, but I'd be willing to bet every other person on the road with you at night has a different opinion.

Think about it this way, when the back end drops the pivot point is basically the front axle. The frame is like a long lever moving on that pivot point. The rear of the truck is approximately 18' away from the pivot point. The further away from the pivot point, the greater the amount of movement. So 18' away moves 2", as you move closer the amount of movement is reduced until you get to the actual pivot point which would have zero movement. I understand that theory is using a fixed pivot point and our trucks have suspension that allows movement at the pivot point, but it is still less than the amount of movement 18' away.

If you have ever hooked up a WDH, part of that process is to measure the height of the front and rear unloaded and then loaded. You then adjust the WDH bars to get the front back as close as you can to original height. The last one I hooked up, the back dropped 2.5", the front raised 3/4".

My point is that the headlights are not moving as high as many people think they do just because the back is squatting a bit. I have driven at night many times and I still have a very good light pattern on the pavement in front of me, not on the highline wires.

[bsmith0404]

Again folks, I'm not saying you shouldn't use air bags, by all means use them if you like them. My only question is why pump them up to the point to return to unloaded height and run the 5er nose high? Can someone please explain to me the benefit of doing that vs using less air in the bags and achieving a closer to level towing situation.

[kennyskywalker]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

Again folks, I'm not saying you shouldn't use air bags, by all means use them if you like them. My only question is why pump them up to the point to return to unloaded height and run the 5er nose high? Can someone please explain to me the benefit of doing that vs using less air in the bags and achieving a closer to level towing situation.

Well, the short answer is by utilizing airbags you more evenly distribute weight to all four tires, instead of drive axel taking all the weight, that equals better comfort and control. **One side note, if I had an f350 dually I wouldn't bother with airbags

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[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by kennyskywalker

Well, the short answer is by utilizing airbags you more evenly distribute weight to all four tires, instead of drive axel taking all the weight, that equals better comfort and control. **One side note, if I had an f350 dually I wouldn't bother with airbags

This may seem obvious to anyone who has been reading the Tires Tires Tires section of the forum, but may have been missed by those who haven't kept up with the comments there regarding ST tires, lack of reserve capacity and damage to trailers from tire "blowout".

Here goes: Using air bags to level the truck when towing, for better comfort may be nice, but when one raises the front of the trailer significantly, it "removes loading from the front trailer axle and shifts that weight to the rear trailer axle. That can cause increased wear, increased flexing, increased heat and can, in some situations where there is minimal (if any) reserve capacity in the trailer tires, lead to tire failure.

Ideally, obtaining a towing attitude in which the truck and trailer are both level is the optimum way to tow. I think what Brent is conveying is that if you "jack up the rear of the truck so much that it makes the trailer "tow tail low and nose high", what have you gained?

I'm not saying or implying that you shouldn't be comfortable and maintain control of your tow vehicle by adjusting the ride geometry (if necessary), but if you do it at the expense of trailer geometry, inadvertently overload your trailer rear axle and run the risk of damage because of wanting the "truck to be level", what, if anything, have you gained?

ADDED: As for redistributing weight from the rear axle to the front axle on the truck by increasing the rear 'ride height' by inflating air bags, if you sit on a CAT scale weight pad, weigh your rig, then increase the rear axle height, let's say 4", and reweigh, you'll probably shift less than 100 pounds from the rear to the front of the truck. There's very little weight redistribution at "nominal height changes".

[Ken / Claudia]

I have had air bags in 2 different trucks and carried 2 different in bed campers. Pulled 2 different boats and heaviest in bed loads carried was pallets of tile. What I found is there is a psi with each load and outside temps and elevation that all affect how much psi is right for the best vehicle handling. I found that having those (overload springs?) in gauged in the rear with weight and the front just sitting on them not pushing the spring down provides the best ride, (handling of truck). The truck sits about level. If more air is used the truck bounces way to much. To little and it feels like the truck has no suspension. I found that the truck shakes at higher freeway speeds with to little psi.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by kfxgreenie

I must comment on this one, I've been keeping my keyboard too quiet way to long. Xrated has recently posted how he had a stability issue with his TT TH obviously due to a light tongue and could not put any more weight on his tongue as he would be over GVWR on a 250/2500. He had a "stability" issue and yet had added bags and an auxiliary fuel tank to the truck. He ran the tongue light just so he would be "legal" as he had no other "choice". Did the bags and tank (even empty) not take away from payload (tongue weight)? This forum praised him for being "legal" and putting others at risk by having a "legal" rig. Did he need bags, the tank? On a 250 2500 at 10K PROBABLY not. yet it was the "3/4 Ton" that was the problem. After he got a 1 Ton Dually and put THE PROPER TONGUE WEIGHT on the truck for the GCWR everything was solved and he was welcomed to the "CLUB." Now I have no doubt that the stability and towing experience is better with the larger 3500 (DRW), but come on call a spade a spade. Load your rig properly, and let these new trucks do what they are built to do!
opc orn:: popcorn: Now i will go back into my hole.

Thank you for that post....it just confirms my thoughts that you truly don't have a clue what you are talking about in regard to my trailer/loading/stability issues. And if I still had the F250, I would love to invite you to my place and give YOU the golden opportunity to load my trailer correctly, stay within the weight limits of the truck, and more importantly, make the sway issue that I had go away. Then, you could make a post about how you saved the day for me, solved the problems I had, and saved me $$$$ by not having to buy a different truck. Damn the bad luck!

And BTW, letting these new truck's do what they were built to do, DOESN'T include overloading them, as you seem to be suggesting. And as far as adding the aux. tank, I believe I'll be the one that decides whether or not I want/need it. Again, thanks for your response, it has confirmed for me that you just can't always believe everything you read on the interwebs.

[xcntrk]

I air my bags up to where the overload springs are just barely touching. That way any large bumps I'm immediately engaging the overload springs. Even at this height the rig is still squatting a little. My problem is my TV is too tall to start with and the 5'er tows a little nose high. It's even worse now that I recently upgraded my pin-box to a suspension unit that hangs down a little lower.

[chuckster57]

xcntrk: have you set the pin box as high as it can go? When I changed mine from a solid to the Rota Flex, I had to go up one hole to maintain the same height.

[Javi]

When I ran airbags I adjusted the pressure for the load... It is really simple.. Measure both rear wheel well height before the load.... load and inflate each side until the wheel well is returned to the measured height...

Now adjust the hitch height and/or pin box height to level the trailer... you do not do it before setting the air bags properly...

Folks is making a mountain out of a molehill on this air bag thingy... they're a tool..

If your load is a legal load for your truck and the truck is sagging in the rear and folks are flashing their headlights at you on low beam.... You might need air bags...

Personally... I'd measure all wheel wells before loading and again after loading... if the front is raising up more than a couple of inches... I'd be looking for airbags..

As a reference.. my dually will raise 3/4" when I drop the trailer on it.. with a rick of firewood in the bed and the trailer... 1" to 1-1/2 depending on if I put the wood in front of the bed or behind the hitch ... since my truck is 2" high in the back while unloaded... it's about level when loaded... hence no air bags...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Javi

..........................

As a reference.. my dually will raise 3/4" when I drop the trailer on it.. with a rick of firewood in the bed and the trailer... 1" to 1-1/2 depending on if I put the wood in front of the bed or behind the hitch ... since my truck is 2" high in the back while unloaded... it's about level when loaded... hence no air bags...

Javi, maybe I should get a F350 DRW like yours! I want it to rise when loaded!

[Javi]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Javi, maybe I should get a F350 DRW like yours! I want it to rise when loaded!

FRONT... read it again...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by kennyskywalker

Well, the short answer is by utilizing airbags you more evenly distribute weight to all four tires, instead of drive axel taking all the weight, that equals better comfort and control. **One side note, if I had an f350 dually I wouldn't bother with airbags

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If you are refering to redistributing weight on the TV that is not correct! Lifting the rear back to level doesn't move any weight to the front axle. Now a WDH will move weight off the rear axle and move to both the trailer and front axle.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Javi

FRONT... read it again...

Yep, missed that, likely as I I never thought placing weight directly or slilightly ahead of the rear axle would remove weight from the front axle as it is now the fulcrum point.

[bsmith0404]

Originally Posted by Javi

When I ran airbags I adjusted the pressure for the load... It is really simple.. Measure both rear wheel well height before the load.... load and inflate each side until the wheel well is returned to the measured height...

Now adjust the hitch height and/or pin box height to level the trailer... you do not do it before setting the air bags properly...

Folks is making a mountain out of a molehill on this air bag thingy... they're a tool..

If your load is a legal load for your truck and the truck is sagging in the rear and folks are flashing their headlights at you on low beam.... You might need air bags...

Personally... I'd measure all wheel wells before loading and again after loading... if the front is raising up more than a couple of inches... I'd be looking for airbags..

As a reference.. my dually will raise 3/4" when I drop the trailer on it.. with a rick of firewood in the bed and the trailer... 1" to 1-1/2 depending on if I put the wood in front of the bed or behind the hitch ... since my truck is 2" high in the back while unloaded... it's about level when loaded... hence no air bags...

I agree with everything you are saying, the problem that I've been seeing a lot of is that people raise the back with air bags, but don't have the bed clearance to drop the hitch so they are running extremely nose high. IMO, they should let some of the air out and drop the back a bit to get closer to level.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I agree with everything you are saying, the problem that I've been seeing a lot of is that people raise the back with air bags, but don't have the bed clearance to drop the hitch so they are running extremely nose high. IMO, they should let some of the air out and drop the back a bit to get closer to level.

My dad was fond of a saying... Life is a series of tests intended to thin the herd...

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

I agree with everything you are saying, the problem that I've been seeing a lot of is that people raise the back with air bags, but don't have the bed clearance to drop the hitch so they are running extremely nose high. IMO, they should let some of the air out and drop the back a bit to get closer to level.

My thought is level the TV, then adjust hitch for 6" clearance at the pin, then do the necessary process to get the trailer level. One does need to make sure not to exceed a total height of 13' 6".

On Edit: There is nothing better than towing level!!

[xcntrk]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

xcntrk: have you set the pin box as high as it can go? When I changed mine from a solid to the Rota Flex, I had to go up one hole to maintain the same height.

Yes, it's already all the way up. Very little adjustment with my config. Having a standard bed, I use a Superglide slider hitch which has zero height adjustment. So my only adjustment capability are the two sets of king-pin holes. Overall the height is not too bad, I've seen far worse. Surprisingly I see no change in load on my rearmost axle (based on monitoring tire temps/pressure) from the slightly nose high load.

[chuckster57]

I hear you. Those auto sliders do sit high in the bed.