Sway ... Problem or not?

[BamaRam]

Unless I watch for large trucks and slightly correct steering when the bow wave from a large vehicle hits the back of my trailer, the nose of the truck pulls left.


I can also feel fast 4 wheelers.


Is this abnormal? I know I need to check my hitch adjustment, I'm wondering if a perfect setup on this hitch could eliminate this cause of sway. I have an E2.

[sonic2]

These videos show the importance of anti-sway and correct weight distribution for towing. This perfectly illustrates what occurs when poor loading of the RV is made. If the load on the nose is insufficient it renders the TV unstable and prevents the combination as a whole from stabilizing. This is the "BEST" examples I've ever viewed.

Additionally, "wind" and you TV is a factor. Are you pulling more than your TV is rated? 3/4 ton and 1 ton have better axles for towing. Tires on your TV is a factor because of quality and ratings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-hUX8memY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyagKzvJwYw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzrWHTG5e8

Here is some good information that no one talks about. Everyone talks about payload and towing capabilities - people state their vehicle can tow, but it's the payload that's the concern. I'm overloaded on payload (I determined this after my purchases with more increased knowledge); I added items to my rear end suspension to aide in handling and weight. I only drive 90 miles one way towing on flat land 5 times a year. When I get a new RV, I will get a 3/4 to; it will drive better and I will be safer. Research and gaining knowledge on any subject matter is what I do, I never want to stop learning.

How are the difference created? The questions and answers are the parts used; there can be difference's between engines, brakes parts, rear end gearing, transmission, radiators and transmission coolers, frame, suspension and other related parts. Here is just one example of a difference between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton:

Semi Floating vs Full Floating Axles
How Semi & Full Floating Axles Differ
You're probably aware that full floating axles are preferred in high torque, high load applications as a result of their strength. The simplest manner in which to explain the full float's advantage is in the loads that the axle shaft must bear - a semi floating axle is subjected to torsional and shear stress, while a full floating axle shaft is only subjected to a torsional load. Any shear force on a full floating axle shaft can be considered negligible based on the fact that the axle bearings and axle tubes primarily carry the weight of the vehicle and all its cargo. With few exceptions, semi floating axles are found in light duty pickups while majority of 3/4 ton and larger pickups come with a full floating axle. The strength of a full floater comes at a cost, as these axles are also significantly heavier.

Semi Floating Axle
By design, a semi floating axle uses a wheel hub that is directly connected to the axle shaft (the hub and axle shaft are commonly a single part), which is supported by a bearing located near the wheel end of the shaft. As such, the weight of the vehicle and any cargo must be carried by the axle shaft itself. Therefore, the axle shaft is used to transmit power to the wheel as well as support the load of the vehicle, applying both bending and torsional forces to the axle. Semi floating axles are both lighter in weight and cheaper to manufacture than full floating axles, though they have a limited load capacity. They're are very common in light duty vehicles, such as midsize and 1/2 ton pickups.

Full Floating Axle
A full floating axle consists of a wheel hub assemble that is separate from the axle shaft. A spindle bolted to the axle tube supports the wheel hub by means of a pair of wheel bearings. Therefore, the weight of the vehicle and its cargo is transfered to the axle tube, rather than the axle shaft itself. As a result, a full floating axle shaft is not subjected to the bending force that a semi floating axle is. Rather, the axle shaft's only task is to transmit power to the wheel hub. As a result, the shaft is only subjected to torsional loading. Full floating axles are rather heavy, but have very large weight carrying capacities. They are common on 3/4 ton and heavier trucks, which require the ability to transport considerable weight.

To increase the capacity of a semi floating axle, the axle shaft diameter would have to be increased, where as the spindle and wheel hub design determine, for the most part, the carrying capacity of a full floating axle. The diagram below provides a rough comparison between semi and full floating axles. Note that this is not a blueprint of any particle axle and therefore the exact designs will vary depending on the axle.

Semi floating & full floating axle diagram
http://www.4wdhub.com/img/figures/se...ating-axle.jpg

[BamaRam]

Lots of good info there. Thank you.

I have a 3/4 ton Ram with full floating axle. New Michelin LRE tires inflated to values stated in owners manual. New front end. New shocks. I don’t think it’s the TV. I have learned that the short box puts me at a slight disadvantage towing a bumpers pull.

In regards to weight distribution the trailer was all but empty. No more than 200 lbs distributed as evenly as practical.

The rig doesn’t look to be light on front end. It may be time to check hitch and hit the scales.

[SC Dreamer]

When you are on flat, level ground make sure the tt and tv are level to each other and the ground. Neither should be nose up or down with proper tongue weight.

[Retired Copper]

I had an e2 with a 30 foot PassPort pulling with a capable 1/2ton. Setup perfectly I got the same pulling and pushing and did not like it at all. Upgraded to an E4 and it was a way better and tighter tow. The e2 might be ok for under 24 feet but I will never know because I have found what I was looking for. Now pull the trailer with a 3/4 ton and highways, trucks and winds have very little effect. Sure you will still get a little push orbump every once in a while but it`s the same feeling when towing anything. that tall and long,

[BamaRam]

I was looking at the E4 but I plan to upgrade the trailer tires and see if that helps. It has China bombs on it now. I have read that the tires can make a difference due to strength of sidewalls.

My dilemma is that I don’t know when to stop trying to stop the sway because I’m new at this.

[Northofu1]

Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on

[Retired Copper]

I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.

[BamaRam]

Originally Posted by Retired Copper

I think the tires will help at highway speeds along with balancing. I went from china bombs load range c to goodyear endurance load range d, Don`t have but about a thousand miles on them but an almost 800 mile round trip put on them; they seem to track well and they still are maintaining air pressure well after setting for about 3 weeks. All the things I have done sure made that trip the most enjoyable and stress free tow todate.

I am planning to get a set of Carlisles before the trip to Colorado in July. I don't relish the thought of driving 4500 miles looking in my mirrors for trucks. Thank you for your input.

[JRTJH]

BamaRam,

If you plan to head west on I-70, as soon as you get into the open plains in Kansas, you're going to face sidewinds/headwinds that will buffet your rig. There's just no way to avoid "fighting the wheel". About all you can do is load your trailer "nose heavy" (10-15% tongue weight) and install tires/sway control as best you can. You're going to have sway, you're going to "fight it" and you're going to be "whipped at the end of the day" with any trailer.

Years ago we lived in Denver and would make the trip "back home" to visit family every summer. We made the I-70 Kansas trip first in a VW campmobile. HORRIBLE !!! Then with a 3/4 ton truck/cab-over camper. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 20' Jayco travel trailer. HORRIBLE !!! Then with the same truck and a 26' Airstream. HORRIBLE (but better) !!!

Two years ago we made the trip with our current rig, the first time towing a fifth wheel across Kansas. There were times when the truck was "pointed left" and times when the truck was "pointed right" but seldom was the truck "pointed west".... Every time we went under an overpass, we moved a "quarter lane" opposite the sidewind direction.

Kansas is about the only place I'd prefer the 4MPG headwind towing over the constant 40MPH sidewind.

Is it impossible? Nope, people do it every day. Some with the most expensive $3000 hitch available, some with a bumper hitch and no sway control. You won't eliminate the crosswind problem with any hitch, all you can do is reduce the tow vehicle/trailer fighting each other. You're going to have to cope with the sidewinds pushing you into the adjoining lane with any rig, from a million dollar motorhome (no sway at all) to the rig you currently have.

Almost any "good 4 point sway control hitch" (from any brand) set up properly towing a properly loaded trailer will reduce the sway. You're not going to eliminate the "sidewind buffeting" that will push your rig. That affects every tall vehicle and every short vehicle. Have you ever seen a motorcycle rider pass you, leaning into the crosswind? If the wind is strong enough, the cycle rider may be "almost laying down" to stay on the highway. Since you can't "lean your trailer into the wind" all you can do is point the truck in the direction that keeps you moving straight ahead. Then, look out for that overpass where there's no wind or look out for that truck that passes you and blocks the wind. You'll "hit the side of the truck or change lanes" when the wind "suddenly stops".... That makes for "one tired driver" at the end of the day.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have an adequate tow vehicle that's capable of towing your trailer. You can spend thousands of dollars and do the best you can to prepare, but you're still going to "fight it" across Kansas and eastern Colorado. Some resort to driving at night, when the winds die down rather than push on during the day. I wouldn't spend a lot of money to avoid the unavoidable. Make sure your rig is safe, properly maintained, properly set up and enjoy the best trip of your life. If you have problems with sidewinds, just rearrange your schedule for those couple of days and drive at night.

[BamaRam]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Awesome post Sonic
Bama, I would pinch the brake controller as soon as I noticed it swaying, then slow it down, pull over as soon as it is safe to do so and look at readjusting what storage you have and in what locations.
Sonic's videos are spot on

I honestly appreciate your input but I think you misunderstand what I perceive to be the problem. It's just a wiggle that draws the truck to slightly to the the left. I would need to keep my hand on the controller at all times.



Controllable but uncomfortable. It keeps me busy looking for trucks.

[KSH]

Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KSH

Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

[KSH]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by KSH

Agreed, but everything else counteracts the sway from my understanding, the propride handles it very differently by changing the pivot point.

It does, but putting a $3500/250 pound ProPride hitch on a 3/4 ton truck towing a 27' travel trailer is akin to going squirrel hunting with a 105mm howitzer. It'll kill the game, but at what cost and what benefit???

There's just no need for that kind of hitch for most people who tow rigs with adequate tow vehicles. I say that, knowing that ProPride and Hensley's advertising departments will disagree...... Their motivation is to sell hitches and make money, mine is to offer suggestions on how to attain "reasonable, safe towing" without spending more for the hitch than the tow vehicle is worth......

Understand, that towing with a ProPride won't stop you from being pushed into the next lane by a strong crosswind or bow wave from a truck, it'll just keep you "in a straight line" while you move over..... Look at any large, flat sided motorhome (with no pivot point) and you'll see that vehicle also is affected by crosswinds.... No hitch involved at all and they move over just like all other flat sided rigs....

[BamaRam]

Great input from all. Especially driving the Plains at night. I’m going to change trailer tires, check/adjust the hitch and go from there. I’m fairly certain the hitch is out because of the wear pattern on the leading edge of the wear pads. I have to tow to a level (and preferably shady) spot to check it.

[slow]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

Late response: But the TT and TV get nudged as one, much like a TV on its own which we are all conditioned to.

Looks like you addressed this in a later post.

[tim5055]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.

A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by tim5055

A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

I'm glad the hitch you have works for you. It's ONE solution to a problem, but certainly not the ONLY solution.

While you're advocating your hitch, would you explain how a motorhome (with no articulation or hitch) is affected by side winds and bow wave forces and your rig isn't? Even on my motorcycle, I'm affected by side winds (and need to lean into the wind to stay in position on the roadway. It's fun <not really> when going under overpasses where the side wind isn't present. Bow waves from approaching trucks affect me when in my truck (towing or not) and certainly affect me when riding my cycle. In fact, in some situations, the bow wave from an 18 wheeler will literally lift the helmet on my head, pulling on the chin strap which is all that keeps it from being ripped off. How is it that your hitch stops that kind of force? I've never had that explained, maybe you can offer an explanation ???

[Gegrad]

Originally Posted by tim5055

A side wind is always going to push the rig sideways. The difference is that the ProPride and the older design Hensley Arrow (both designed by Jim Hensley) project the pivot point forward to the rear axle of the tow vehicle. They both bolt over and block out the conventional ball and the hitch becomes the pivot. This projected pivot point give the stability of a fifth wheel rig.

I have several thousand miles on my ProPride 3P and have never had any sway. On my last trip back form Orlando there were extreme side winds the entire length of Florida. My F-250 and Coachmen tracked as one single unit the entire time.

They are well worth the money.

Cool story. Guess what? I haven't had any sway with my Husky Centerline 4pt sway control hitch either. So to summarize, you haven't had any sway; I haven't had any sway. The only difference? I have an extra $1000 in my wallet to spend on camping!