Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-07-2018, 03:43 AM   #21
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote from my Signature..........

"Excessive Payload Is A Wonderful Thing!"
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2018, 08:30 AM   #22
travelin texans
Senior Member
 
travelin texans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
The manufacturer of both tv & rv should only give the dry/unloaded weights to the delivery services, they're the only people that it means anything to. Once your cheeks hit the seat, you've put your flashlight in the glove box & coffee mug in the cup holder the unloaded weight of the truck is worthless, but you have begun subtracting from the payload. The max tow weight rating doesn't mean a thing either as you'll usually max out the payload or axle ratings long before you ever tow the max.
In the rv as soon as the LP bottles are filled & loaded the paper plates the dry weight will NEVER exist again.
For accurate weights, load the truck as if going on trip & head to the scales, now you have the starting weight. Same with the rv, load it up & off to the scales. Then NO more guessing, speculating or what ifs, you'll either be good to go or extremely overloaded, which by the way can happen very quickly.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
travelin texans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 01:26 PM   #23
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans View Post
The manufacturer of both tv & rv should only give the dry/unloaded weights to the delivery services, they're the only people that it means anything to. Once your cheeks hit the seat, you've put your flashlight in the glove box & coffee mug in the cup holder the unloaded weight of the truck is worthless, but you have begun subtracting from the payload. The max tow weight rating doesn't mean a thing either as you'll usually max out the payload or axle ratings long before you ever tow the max.
In the rv as soon as the LP bottles are filled & loaded the paper plates the dry weight will NEVER exist again.
For accurate weights, load the truck as if going on trip & head to the scales, now you have the starting weight. Same with the rv, load it up & off to the scales. Then NO more guessing, speculating or what ifs, you'll either be good to go or extremely overloaded, which by the way can happen very quickly.
I would just add don't think weighing the 2 vehicles is a "one and done" deal. Everybody thinks that the stuff they add doesn't weigh anything. It's just an extra blanket. It's just a hoodie, or a new fry pan but after time the cumulative weight can be substantial. Lot's of folks (raising my hand here) are a lot heavier than they were years ago. This didn't happen with one meal. A pound or two here, an extra serving there and before you know it you're sporting that Sumo wrestler waits.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 02:39 PM   #24
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
Why don't we add load cells to monitor the GVW, GAWR and shut the vehicle down if any value is exceeded. Shouldn't cost more than a TPMS. Don't stop with trucks as most cars, crossovers, vans and SUV's are easily overloaded.

What will happen when we get all these driverless cars on the road that are programed to the legal speed limit in any lane??? More issues, more government, less freedom.

Just my thoughts, no harm intended.
__________________
2021 Surveyor Legend 19rble
2017 Laredo 325RL
Travelers Rest Resort
www.travelersrestresort.com
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 03:00 PM   #25
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
Why don't we add load cells to monitor the GVW, GAWR and shut the vehicle down if any value is exceeded. Shouldn't cost more than a TPMS. Don't stop with trucks as most cars, crossovers, vans and SUV's are easily overloaded.

What will happen when we get all these driverless cars on the road that are programed to the legal speed limit in any lane??? More issues, more government, less freedom.

Just my thoughts, no harm intended.

Truer words were never spoken Frank. A couple of things to add to that list are less money and less sleep. I'm sure there are many others. As far as the "driverless" cars.....heaven help us. When we start down that path it reminds me of an old song by Zager and Evans, 2525, which basically describes the path of mankind as they become virtually useless and helpless.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2018, 10:27 PM   #26
mtofell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 247
The most bang for the buck I've gotten with trying to educate people on message boards and friends/family is that there are two numbers/concepts: The truck must be able to carry the weight and the truck must be able to pull the weight.

Far too often people get hung up on one of these numbers while completely ignoring the other. Manufacturers and salesmen certainly don't do people any favors with their advertising and advice.
mtofell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 06:13 AM   #27
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
Why don't we add load cells to monitor the GVW, GAWR and shut the vehicle down if any value is exceeded. Shouldn't cost more than a TPMS. Don't stop with trucks as most cars, crossovers, vans and SUV's are easily overloaded.

What will happen when we get all these driverless cars on the road that are programed to the legal speed limit in any lane??? More issues, more government, less freedom.

Just my thoughts, no harm intended.
Wow, so you want the ability to speed, but want everybody to absolutely adhere to GVWR and GAWR's, isn't that being hypocritical ?
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 09:50 AM   #28
Fishsizzle
Senior Member
 
Fishsizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,138
Uggg, just starting to like hanging out here again.
Fishsizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 11:43 AM   #29
Eastham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 279
Should we gather up the family and dog and weigh before we hit the dump station in the morning or after everyone is through 4or 5 people plus the dog times x amount could put your over you load limit.
Eastham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 11:55 AM   #30
ctbruce
Site Team | Emeritus
 
ctbruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastham View Post
Should we gather up the family and dog and weigh before we hit the dump station in the morning or after everyone is through 4or 5 people plus the dog times x amount could put your over you load limit.
My personal load limit is about 2.5 meals, then I'm stretching it. YMMV. Probably will.
__________________

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
ctbruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 12:14 PM   #31
66joej
Senior Member
 
66joej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: radium hot springs bc
Posts: 2,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
My personal load limit is about 2.5 meals, then I'm stretching it. YMMV. Probably will.
Chip - Based on my limited medical training (St. John First Aid) 30 years ago that would make you "regular".
__________________

2018 Ram 3500 6.4 Harvest Edition
2018 Cougar 27RESWE
66joej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 12:50 PM   #32
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Wow, so you want the ability to speed, but want everybody to absolutely adhere to GVWR and GAWR's, isn't that being hypocritical ?
I thought this was the "No Spin Zone" This whole thread and every other weight thread on this forum encourages one to not cross any weight or towing limit. I just suggested a way to prevent overloading similar to the way excess diesel emissions are controlled, by shutting the vehicle down. Do I think we as a society should do this? NO.

Second paragraph, Driverless Cars, I simply stated that when the driverless cars and trucks hit the highways, and they will, they will be programed to obey posted speed limits. How did you interpret that statement to mean I want to speed? Do I speed, Yes whether on the Golf Cart, car or truck
__________________
2021 Surveyor Legend 19rble
2017 Laredo 325RL
Travelers Rest Resort
www.travelersrestresort.com
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 12:54 PM   #33
Ken / Claudia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
I cross trained with RMCP at 1 point. While beer drinking after school we talked a lot.
How about this, they set up vehicle inspection points on public roads because they can unlike in the US. For the purpose of inspecting vehicles. A guy talked about how many got mad when the vehicles where overloaded. They made them comply before leaving. It could be cargo or people left on the roadside.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
Ken / Claudia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 02:53 PM   #34
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
Why don't we add load cells to monitor the GVW, GAWR and shut the vehicle down if any value is exceeded. Shouldn't cost more than a TPMS. Don't stop with trucks as most cars, crossovers, vans and SUV's are easily overloaded.

What will happen when we get all these driverless cars on the road that are programed to the legal speed limit in any lane??? More issues, more government, less freedom.

Just my thoughts, no harm intended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
I thought this was the "No Spin Zone" This whole thread and every other weight thread on this forum encourages one to not cross any weight or towing limit. I just suggested a way to prevent overloading similar to the way excess diesel emissions are controlled, by shutting the vehicle down. Do I think we as a society should do this? NO.

Second paragraph, Driverless Cars, I simply stated that when the driverless cars and trucks hit the highways, and they will, they will be programed to obey posted speed limits. How did you interpret that statement to mean I want to speed? Do I speed, Yes whether on the Golf Cart, car or truck
Just the way "I" read the statement. I also speed, but more go with the flow on two lanes as to not impede traffic.

While towing within GVWR is a good thing, but there are unfortunately situations where the ability is there. WHY does Ford still offer a F350 with a 9,900# GVWR? So one doesn't need to license as a commercial vehicle, even if it has a Camper and snow plow package. Same as on with a GVWR of 11,500#+, but if licensed as Commercial or over 10,000# can't be parked at home. Just a situation some are caught in.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 09:54 AM   #35
itat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eastern GTA
Posts: 195
For me, the payload (cargo carrying capacity) sticker on the drivers door goes out the window as soon as I do the first mod. With my current F-250, I had the dealer do Line-X spray in the bed and in the wheel wells and added a tonneau cover before I took delivery. So that number on the sticker was of no use anymore. Towing a camper, I just try to stay under the GVWR and RAWR. If I can do that, then the GCWR should be fine. I check my weights at the CAT scales to make sure.

Personally, I could live with being over the GVWR by 200# but that's about as far as I'd be comfortable. Everybody is different. As long as you can stop your combo in an emergency stop situation, its none of my business how much overweight you are.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed, 3.73
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019-2023)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2014-2018)
itat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 10:10 AM   #36
cookinwitdiesel
Senior Member
 
cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Fairfax
Posts: 507
GVWR is way more relevant than payload for precisely the reasons you mentioned. Max capacity in the vehicle means the vehicle weight will be your GVWR which is always going to be the "specified" weight ceiling for that vehicle to operate within spec safely.
__________________
2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck)
(OLD) 2018 GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel (Crew Cab | 6.6 Ft bed)
2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde SRE4000 Suspension | 3x Cross Members | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen)
(OLD) 2018 Keystone Hideout 28RKS Travel Trailer
cookinwitdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #37
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
I usually stay out of these weight threads for the simple reason, they are complicated.

Each tow vehicle (TV) will have a tow limit, load limit, combined limit – when the two are hooked together – and, most important a maximum load rating. That maximum load rating (GVWR) is the ultimate limiter. It’s the one you’re not supposed to exceed; it’s unsafe to do so.

What almost all TVs have in common is load capacity reserves. They are provided with axles that have GAWRs that will, when combined, carry more weight than the vehicle GVWR. Tires that will carry more weight than the GAWRs they are attached to. The way lot’s of owners see it, is it must be okay to use those reserves, why else were they provided? SAFETY!

In reality, a TV will most likely be able to reach its full towing ability when hooked-up properly to a “bumper-pull” vehicle. That type trailer will not have anywhere near as much weight being carried by the TV as a trailer with a hitch attachment right over the TVs rear axle.

When you see those ads on television with trucks pulling large loads, look more closely. There is a single person in the truck, the driver. The load is hooked to a tow hitch aft of the rear bumper.

When shopping for a TV you’ve got to be real. What’s the normal load in the TV when ready to hit the road? Driver and 3 passengers with their traveling stuff. Bikes/small boats on top of the truck. An added fuel tank or maybe one in the future. Load it all up and get the TVs scaled weight. Whatever TV carrying load capacity left over is what you can use for the tongue/hitch weight of the trailer.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 08:14 PM   #38
cookinwitdiesel
Senior Member
 
cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Fairfax
Posts: 507
Yep, and more often than not, a moderate sized family with gear in TV will put a 3/4 ton over weight with a modest bumper pull TT - I had pretty much immediate buyers remorse that I did not get a 1 ton but am not willing to eat several thousand dollars over it. Lesson learned, I am sure in a few years I will want a new bigger fancier trailer and will upgrade the truck at that time too.

My truck has 2144# payload capacity. Already added a truck bed cover (100#) and me, wife, daughter add up to about 325# now but she will only get bigger (15 month old). We will easily have at least 300# of stuff in the truck that is all our baggage. Then add say, 150# of tools, jacks, etc and 100# for the WDH. Now we have 6 gallon air compressor (20#), generator (90#), gas can (40#) and a spare 20# Propane Cylinder (37#). If you were following along for all that, it adds up to 1162#. My trailer has a tongue weight (as of this morning) of 915#.

Now some of those estimates were conservative on purpose but that all adds up to 2077# of payload on the truck with only 67# left before I am at capacity according to spec. That is a 3rd-4th grader away, or my daughter by around middle school.

A 3500 would drive the same, cost only marginally more, and have 1400# more payload which would certainly make me feel better.
__________________
2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck)
(OLD) 2018 GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel (Crew Cab | 6.6 Ft bed)
2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde SRE4000 Suspension | 3x Cross Members | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen)
(OLD) 2018 Keystone Hideout 28RKS Travel Trailer
cookinwitdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 09:02 PM   #39
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
Yep, and more often than not, a moderate sized family with gear in TV will put a 3/4 ton over weight with a modest bumper pull TT - I had pretty much immediate buyers remorse that I did not get a 1 ton but am not willing to eat several thousand dollars over it. Lesson learned, I am sure in a few years I will want a new bigger fancier trailer and will upgrade the truck at that time too.

My truck has 2144# payload capacity. Already added a truck bed cover (100#) and me, wife, daughter add up to about 325# now but she will only get bigger (15 month old). We will easily have at least 300# of stuff in the truck that is all our baggage. Then add say, 150# of tools, jacks, etc and 100# for the WDH. Now we have 6 gallon air compressor (20#), generator (90#), gas can (40#) and a spare 20# Propane Cylinder (37#). If you were following along for all that, it adds up to 1162#. My trailer has a tongue weight (as of this morning) of 915#.

Now some of those estimates were conservative on purpose but that all adds up to 2077# of payload on the truck with only 67# left before I am at capacity according to spec. That is a 3rd-4th grader away, or my daughter by around middle school.

A 3500 would drive the same, cost only marginally more, and have 1400# more payload which would certainly make me feel better.
This about this if that 3500 SRW was a Ram the difference would be 2,300#. Ram 3500 SRW has a GVWR of 12,300# base.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2018, 09:04 PM   #40
cookinwitdiesel
Senior Member
 
cookinwitdiesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Fairfax
Posts: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
This about this if that 3500 SRW was a Ram the difference would be 2,300#. Ram 3500 SRW has a GVWR of 12,300# base.
The spec sheet difference between 2500HD CC Diesel and 3500HD CC Diesel SRW for the GMC is 1400#. The GMC 3500 HD SRW has a GVRW of 11600#. I am sure it will vary between brands. The point is, always get the 1 ton pickup haha - you won't regret it
__________________
2019 GMC Sierra 3500HD Denali Diesel DRW (Crew Cab | 8 Ft bed | OEM Puck System | Curt Gooseneck Ball for OEM Puck)
(OLD) 2018 GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Diesel (Crew Cab | 6.6 Ft bed)
2019 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3740BH-R Fifth Wheel (Onan 5500W LP Generator | MORryde SRE4000 Suspension | 3x Cross Members | Sailun S637 ST | Reese GooseBox 20k 2nd Gen)
(OLD) 2018 Keystone Hideout 28RKS Travel Trailer
cookinwitdiesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tow, towing, towing capacity

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.