GAS OR DIESEL What to consider

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Number 4

But I admit, having a PowerStroke that could pull Giant Sequoia tree stumps would be amazing!

Not to start anything here, but the Power Stroke is not the only one capable of doing this!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Not to start anything here, but the Power Stroke is not the only one capable of doing this!

Nah, It's not the engine it's all in the tires.... Ford comes with Michelin, GM and RAM, well, their tires just don't grip as well ROFL

[Number 4]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Number 4
But I admit, having a PowerStroke that could pull Giant Sequoia tree stumps would be amazing! :)

travelin texans;302557

Not to start anything here, but the Power Stroke is not the only one capable of doing this!

Oh, it's ON now Danny! (joking ) You are quite correct, there are a variety of name brands with potent pulling power. Remember to use straps for stump pulling instead of chains. Chain break, become shrapnel, bad day for you.


Come visit California. We have many many burned trees for you to practice on.

[KSH]

Sorry, [emoji16]

[Javi]

Here ya' go... check out your theory on resale value...

http://www.machaik.com/vehicle-inventory/1?make[]=Ford&model[]=Super+Duty+F-350+SRW&vview=inv&key=&sortCol=price&sortDir=a

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Number 4

I'm all in with most everything you wrote Danny, except for fuel pricing. This chart puts diesel 13% higher cost than regular and 6.5% less than premium. We only fuel up with premium if we're going into the mountains. Commuting and flatland towing does fine with regular grade. Maybe the average between regular and premium is within pennies?

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm

Oil changes every 7,500 miles is sure nice compared to 3,000.

You are wasting you money running premium fuel on an engine designed to run regular fuel. Premium fuel (read higher octane) is actually not going to work as well as regular....if you vehicle is designed to run on regular. The higher octane fuel has a higher resistance to ignition...which means you need either more compression and or more heat to be able to make it ignite effficiently, which is normally a function for higher compression engines. There are a lot of articles out there that explain it a lot better than I can, but the bottom line is to save you money and actually get better performance from your engine.

[slow]

I agree that daily drivers with high compression engines only need premium fuel as specified by the manufacturer. A daily driver spec'd to use regular will not benefit from premium.



But modern computer controlled engines that are heavily loaded like our gas TVs do take advantage of the premium fuel by avoiding having the engine knock (pre-ignition) sensors retarding the timing and reducing performance due to the use of regular, lower octane fuel.

If your engine pings under heavy load while using regular, premium will help. But if running premium under light loads, be prepared to clean the black soot off the rear bumper since the premium will not be burned “clean”.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by brodiegg

I recently had to upgrade my truck from a Ram 1500 to a 2500 and did a lot of reading, watching videos, and talking to truckers. Diesels were the gold standard if you were towing, but with newer gas engines, the higher costs of diesel fuel over gas, the higher maintenance costs of diesels, the added cost of the def additive,and the much higher initial cost of buying---up around 6-9 thousand for diesels, the debate is getting foggier. A recent discussion estimated 60,000 to 150,000 miles to break even. They did say that if you are going to tow over 20,000 pounds, or a lot of mountain driving, diesels take over as the preferred engine. I chose the 6.4 hemi and used the savings for creature comforts---I like air cooled seats. I have owned a diesel suv and liked it, and my daughter drives a diesel, so no bias for or against. So the final answer is how big, how heavy, and where are you towing

Well with a TT with a GVWR of 8,800# will tow just fine with a gas engine, go much larger than 12,000# and gas may still work, but hills will be an issue. Towing with diesel is so much more relaxing than with gas.

The one issue you may have is that you are at a fairly high elevation, so you may be feeling some loss of power do to the elevation.

[Laredo Tugger]

Well with a TT with a GVWR of 8,800# will tow just fine with a gas engine, go much larger than 12,000# and gas may still work, but hills will be an issue. Towing with diesel is so much more relaxing than with gas.

The one issue you may have is that you are at a fairly high elevation, so you may be feeling some loss of power do to the elevation.

Absolute truth in this statement. I WAS towing my 13K 5er with a gasser. Did one trip into the flatlands of midwest. The truck (2016 F250 6.2L) towed the trailer fine once it got up to speed on the highway. A little work at on ramps and passing. It did feel the grades and surprisingly it had some reasonable engine braking on a long downhill grade. But I was close to max and felt the trucks (especially tranny) days were numbered. So I found a used 2018 3500 Ram CTD SRW w/Aisin trans and 5er tow package, as I understand a tough combination to find or order. Anyway,still working out the load balance on the new TV. It has a little sag in the rear when hooked up,but I have air bags to install next week as the correction. But as I do the math, I still wonder if I have enough truck.
RMc

[tjkarch60]

I drive a 07 Classic 2500HD w/Duramax and while my current trailer isn't that heavy and a gasser could easily pull it, I still am happy I paid the extra for the DMax.
The only thing I've had to replace are the 4 glow plugs on the drivers side and a relay for the heater/AC fan(interior). I've had the dealer (Chevy/GM dealer) do the oil changes because they can do a general inspection at the same time and the price is very reasonable. Much cheaper than my BMW! Which I do myself...
I have gotten several inquires from my dealer and a Ford asking if I wanted to sell my truck to them. I don't want to get into another car loan and my truck is everything I want in one. No DEF, no fancy smog stuff.
So yes a diesel is more expensive, but you only live once and you should get what you want, as long as you can afford it.
PS, once I was driving in the high plains of Idaho, driving (without trailer) from Mt. Home to Elko, NV and had a lot of stuff in the bed under the canopy and my readout said I was getting close to 32MPG. I guess the thin air helped.

[Number 4]

Originally Posted by xrated

You are wasting you money running premium fuel on an engine designed to run regular fuel. Premium fuel (read higher octane) is actually not going to work as well as regular....if you vehicle is designed to run on regular. The higher octane fuel has a higher resistance to ignition...which means you need either more compression and or more heat to be able to make it ignite effficiently, which is normally a function for higher compression engines. There are a lot of articles out there that explain it a lot better than I can, but the bottom line is to save you money and actually get better performance from your engine.

My tendency to use premium for mountain climbing is a holdover from preventing the knock-fest in my '99 Dodge Ram 5.7L when premium did make a difference.
A www.ford-trucks.com Why Is My Truck Knocking article says, "In the case of both the F-250 and the F-150, the engine computer will retard the ignition timing if it senses pinging." I'll try regular 87 octane on our next run up the hill and listen closely because Ford did a great job insulating the cab from the engine compartment. Thanks for the comment!

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

Well with a TT with a GVWR of 8,800# will tow just fine with a gas engine, go much larger than 12,000# and gas may still work, but hills will be an issue. Towing with diesel is so much more relaxing than with gas.

The one issue you may have is that you are at a fairly high elevation, so you may be feeling some loss of power do to the elevation.

Absolute truth in this statement. I WAS towing my 13K 5er with a gasser. Did one trip into the flatlands of midwest. The truck (2016 F250 6.2L) towed the trailer fine once it got up to speed on the highway. A little work at on ramps and passing. It did feel the grades and surprisingly it had some reasonable engine braking on a long downhill grade. But I was close to max and felt the trucks (especially tranny) days were numbered. So I found a used 2018 3500 Ram CTD SRW w/Aisin trans and 5er tow package, as I understand a tough combination to find or order. Anyway,still working out the load balance on the new TV. It has a little sag in the rear when hooked up,but I have air bags to install next week as the correction. But as I do the math, I still wonder if I have enough truck.
RMc

You should not have any weight issues!! Your door tag should have a GVWR of 12,000#+, unless you have a TV bed full of anvils you should be well within GVWR!

[Laredo Tugger]

The numbers off of the door stickers and the enter your VIN website are:

2018 Ram 3500 Trailer Towing Chart – SAE J2807 Compliant

CREW CAB SHORT BOX, 4X4, SRW

Engine 6.7L CUMMINS DIESEL (HO)

Trans. A6 AS69RC

Axle Ratio 3.42

GVWR 11,700

Payload 3,822

GAWR: Front: 6,000 Rear: 7,000

GCWR: 25,300

Max. Trailer: 17,050

Iv'e tried entering the numbers into a few of the calculation pages,but get varied results.
The fifth wheel numbers are:

Dry Weight 11,230 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,770 lbs.
GVWR 13,000 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,085 lbs.

I'm not sure how close I am to the max for this TV. I believe I have some room to spare but a trip to the scales will be needed for "real" numbers.I understand that.
Thanks
RMc

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

The numbers off of the door stickers and the enter your VIN website are:

2018 Ram 3500 Trailer Towing Chart – SAE J2807 Compliant

CREW CAB SHORT BOX, 4X4, SRW

Engine 6.7L CUMMINS DIESEL (HO)

Trans. A6 AS69RC

Axle Ratio 3.42

GVWR 11,700

Payload 3,822

GAWR: Front: 6,000 Rear: 7,000

GCWR: 25,300

Max. Trailer: 17,050

Iv'e tried entering the numbers into a few of the calculation pages,but get varied results.
The fifth wheel numbers are:

Dry Weight 11,230 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,770 lbs.
GVWR 13,000 lbs.
Hitch Weight 2,085 lbs.

I'm not sure how close I am to the max for this TV. I believe I have some room to spare but a trip to the scales will be needed for "real" numbers.I understand that.
Thanks
RMc

Payload of 3,822# the 5er at GVWR of 13,000# and 25% would be 3,250# leaving you about 572# for passengers and hitch and stuff.

Most don’t run 25%, I run about 22% that would give you another 300# or 872#. This is why my next step is a 3500 DRW!

Your best bet is load the 5er and TV ready for a trip and get to a scale!

[Laredo Tugger]

13K if I use every bit of available cargo in the 5er. Cant see that happening.
After what I have been through to purchase and set up this TV, simply put it's rolling to a campground near you.
But agreed, a trip to the scales will provide solid numbers.
Thanks for your info.
RMc

[Pmedic4]

One thing people mention is the difference in purchase price between the two. My experience was the dealers marked down the gas models more than the diesel trucks. I found for a similar equipped truck, with the exception of engine, the dealers would definitely cut the price of gas models - little reduction on diesel. So that $9,000 in sticker cost became more like $15,000 in negotiated price. Figuring that in, the choice became easier.

But I agree with the comment about being a full timer, diesel is the better choice.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

One thing people mention is the difference in purchase price between the two. My experience was the dealers marked down the gas models more than the diesel trucks. I found for a similar equipped truck, with the exception of engine, the dealers would definitely cut the price of gas models - little reduction on diesel. So that $9,000 in sticker cost became more like $15,000 in negotiated price. Figuring that in, the choice became easier.

But I agree with the comment about being a full timer, diesel is the better choice.

Well in Illinois you might do fine with the 6.4 and a 12,000# 5er, but it won’t be fine getting to either coast.

[SummitPond]

Originally Posted by Pmedic4

One thing people mention is the difference in purchase price between the two. My experience was the dealers marked down the gas models more than the diesel trucks. I found for a similar equipped truck, with the exception of engine, the dealers would definitely cut the price of gas models - little reduction on diesel. So that $9,000 in sticker cost became more like $15,000 in negotiated price. Figuring that in, the choice became easier. ...

I had the same issue when we were shopping for used trucks. The dealer wouldn't negotiate on the Diesel RAM dually (3500) short bed extended cab but came down quite a bit on the F250 gasser (with significantly more bells and whistles than the RAM). We paid right about $19K less than what the RAM went for, and we're comfortable with the TT we pull.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by SummitPond

I had the same issue when we were shopping for used trucks. The dealer wouldn't negotiate on the Diesel RAM dually (3500) short bed extended cab but came down quite a bit on the F250 gasser (with significantly more bells and whistles than the RAM). We paid right about $19K less than what the RAM went for, and we're comfortable with the TT we pull.

I believe the reason you did so well with the gas was it was a 4X2 in the Northeast! I would not drive a 4X2 again, never had an issue with the ONE that I owned, but when we had to pull our 5th wheel home in the snow far more control!

[rmhaney]

I have a gas 250. With the Andersen hitch I can pull my 5th wheel, goose neck, or 16’ utility trailer. It gets the job done, has no problem pulling hills, use engine breaking coming down hill, just as economical to operate, and is a whole lot quieter.

Originally Posted by brodiegg

I recently had to upgrade my truck from a Ram 1500 to a 2500 and did a lot of reading, watching videos, and talking to truckers. Diesels were the gold standard if you were towing, but with newer gas engines, the higher costs of diesel fuel over gas, the higher maintenance costs of diesels, the added cost of the def additive,and the much higher initial cost of buying---up around 6-9 thousand for diesels, the debate is getting foggier. A recent discussion estimated 60,000 to 150,000 miles to break even. They did say that if you are going to tow over 20,000 pounds, or a lot of mountain driving, diesels take over as the preferred engine. I chose the 6.4 hemi and used the savings for creature comforts---I like air cooled seats. I have owned a diesel suv and liked it, and my daughter drives a diesel, so no bias for or against. So the final answer is how big, how heavy, and where are you towing