Fifth wheel thingy.....

[Laredo Tugger]

Hello,
First post from Laredo Tugger.
Well I have not yet pulled it.Will pick it up in about 12 days.
And there lies the question.
I am trading a bumper pull and have heard great things about fifth wheel towing.
I will post my TV and 5er numbers for any comment or suggestion for better and safer travels.
Thanks

TV- 2016 F250 CC Lariat SB 6.2L 3.73 2WD
Roadmaster suspension upgrade Payload 3126 lbs.
TT- Laredo 350FB Pin 2085 lbs. Dry 11,230 lbs. Cargo Cap 1770 lbs.

Just DW and me. No bikes,kids,pets. There's no way I could ever load max into this rig.

Just looking for comparable set ups and some feedback and tips.

Thanks
RMc

[JRTJH]

What is the payload on your truck? We have a 2015 Lariat 6.7L diesel, ours is about 2000 pounds. With the 6.2L gas engine, I'd guess your payload is around 2800 pounds?

Given the empty pin weight, add batteries, propane, 150+ for a fifth wheel hitch and you're not going to have a lot of "leftover" payload. Will it tow it? Yup, will it stay under the 10K GVW? Maybe/maybe not. Only your local CAT scale will know for sure.....

Nice trailer, nice truck, maybe under GVW, maybe not......

Oh, and welcome to the forum !!!

[Laredo Tugger]

Door sticker shows 3126 of available payload. Max tow cap (that I can find and understand) is 12600.
I know I'm close, just don't want to be dangerous.
Thanks for the reply.
RMc

[JRTJH]

I don't think you'll be "dangerous".... maybe "right at the truck's GVW" maybe a few pounds over, but probably manageable by where you load the trailer cargo.... Only the local CAT scale can give you the "honest, unbiased weights".... I'd urge you, on the way home, stop, spend the $12 and know what you weigh with the empty trailer, then, on your first trip out of town, spend another $12 and get the "loaded for travel" weight. That way, you're not guessing, but you'll know exactly where you stand on weights..... Tongue weight, empty and full, cargo weight for a typical trip and trailer weight/truck weight so you know what you're dealing with....

The "dangerous" part comes in from either "not knowing" (head in the sand) or "ignoring the known problem" (being grossly overweight and doing it anyway).... From what I can gather (opinion only) you won't be dangerous, rather cautious so you're not dangerous.... Big difference !!!!!

[Laredo Tugger]

Thanks John.
I have always been a "more truck than trailer" guy.
I know this rig poses a challenge to my values here.
Thanks again.
RMc

[sourdough]

First, to the forum from W TX!

I don't pull a 5th wheel but I'm sure they will be chiming in to give you some thoughts/guidance on getting your new trailer set up.

My thought/concern for you is your setup. Your trailer gvw is 13000 lbs. Of that only 1770 is for "stuff" to go in the trailer. In our situation there is only DW, myself and pup; no kids, bikes and that kind of thing BUT we do take "stuff" to camp - bbq grill, grates, tools, cleaners, etc. etc. etc. To fully equip the trailer so you can really camp I don't see how you will get away with less than 1200 lbs. of stuff. We go light compared to lots of folks and that's about what we run. We just unloaded from a trip to FL and DW and I both were amazed at how much "stuff" you take with you.....and that was unloading, not counting all the other things (considerable) that "live" in the camper. Just throwing that out.

Secondly would be the truck and trailer combo. With a gvw of 13k on the trailer (and you will get close to that I have no doubt if you take all the stuff you need) you will be right at the max tow rating of your truck. The problem with max tow ratings is they are the most optimistic numbers that the manufacturers put out IMO. Also, I have a Ram 6.4, 3.73 truck. My trailer gvw is 10k. I would not want to pull a 13k trailer with a gas engine. Depending on where you travel you could really be putting it through the ringer.

Not trying to rain on your parade or the excitement of getting the new camper, just wanted to make sure you are aware. You didn't mention what your bumper pull is/was but you could be in for a surprise when you strap that fiver on your truck! Good luck in getting it set up.

Edit: As John mentioned above, I don't think you're going to be dangerous either - just really close to your limits. As long as you know that and keep a close eye on all the safety stuff you will probably be just fine.....as soon as someone helps out on the hitch and other 5th wheel questions you may have. I just worry about that poor 6.2..... Safe travels and enjoy the new rig.

[Duramike]

Similar set up here.

TV - 2016 GMC 2500HD 6.6L Diesel with 5th wheel towing package - 3000 max payload - 10,000 GVWR

5er - 2018 Sprinter 334FWFLS - 10,600 dry weight - 2100 pin - 3200 max payload.

We made a February trip from St. Louis area to Florida panhandle. We just switched from a TT last fall and the 5er was a dream to pull. Had some “chucking” on bridge approaches so I’m considering a pin box upgrade.

You will love pulling the 5er. Have fun.

[kfxgreenie]

Originally Posted by Duramike

Similar set up here.

TV - 2016 GMC 2500HD 6.6L Diesel with 5th wheel towing package - 3000 max payload - 10,000 GVWR

You will love pulling the 5er. Have fun.

What is the configuration of the Truck? That is fairly good payload for a modern day "3/4 ton" diesel truck.

[gearhead]

Yes you will love how a 5th tows.
I would recommend this:
Fill the truck up with fuel. Go to your nearest CAT scale and put the truck front wheels on the front pad of the scale, and the rear wheels on the the 2nd pad.
When you get the new rig go back to the same scale and weigh again with the truck full of fuel and the trailer empty.
When you get it all loaded up, go back to the scale and do it again.
It's the only way to really know.
Oh, the most important thing...take a yardstick, or similar, with you to hit the "call button" on the scale.
Post back when you can.
Enjoy the new rig.

[Frank G]

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the Laredo Club. We are snowbirds and live in ours about 6 months of the year. End of year one and everything works fine. We started out with a 2013 F-250 4x4 6.3 and it worked out better than expected, If yours is a 4x2 even better. Loaded properly your setup is not a danger to yourself or others. Where others get into trouble they over pack, fill all the tanks, add a washer / dryer and generator.

Again Welcome!

[mhbell]

Do Yourself and others on the road a favor. Take your truck loaded with everything you will be carrying in it including full fuel, passengers, Tools, and camping gear including 5th wheel hitch. Go to a CAT scale and put the truck on the scale so that it will weigh each axle. This will give you the GVWR Gross weight of the truck before the 5th wheel is attached to it. it will also give you the weight on each axle. Now when you pick up the trailer take it home and load it with everything that you carry including fresh water in the tank for flushing the toilet while traveling about 1/3 full and if dry camping full. Full propane tanks and anything else you will be taking. Now go back to the Cat Scale and weigh the truck and trailer with each axle on a different section of the scale. Using the weights added together will give you the GCVWR Gross combined weight of the truck and trailer. subtracting the weight of each axle from when you weighed the truck by itself will give you the gross weight of the trailer and the pin weight on the rear truck axle plus the load. It is well worth the time, trouble and cost, to do this. It is the only way to really know where you stand. I know I also have a F250. 2 things to really watch load on the rear axle and gross combined weight. both are easy to go over weight.
Been there done that.
Mel

[Laredo Tugger]

Just went to the cat scales.
My truck with me and gas= 7260 (of course DW said go on a diet and we can get the 5er, gotta love her)
Add DW, hitch (225 lbs.) water,tools and all I am limited to 7800 lbs. to stay under GVWR rating of truck of 19000 lbs. TT dry weight of 11200.
Went to two Ford dealers today, one said I was good because truck will tow 12900 lbs., the other said total GVWR is limitinfg factor. I 'm a little confused here.
I don't think the RV dealer is going to like the call I make tomorrow but I think she's to big. Hate to push it.
Just my take.
RMc

[mhbell]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

Just went to the cat scales.
My truck with me and gas= 7260 (of course DW said go on a diet and we can get the 5er, gotta love her)
Add DW, hitch (225 lbs.) water,tools and all I am limited to 7800 lbs. to stay under GVWR rating of truck of 19000 lbs. TT dry weight of 11200.
Went to two Ford dealers today, one said I was good because truck will tow 12900 lbs., the other said total GVWR is limitinfg factor. I 'm a little confused here.
I don't think the RV dealer is going to like the call I make tomorrow but I think she's to big. Hate to push it.
Just my take.
RMc

Your already over the GCWR of 19000 lbs combined weight of truck and trailer and the trailer is not even loaded. The dry weight of most 5th wheels does not include full propane tanks and batteries. Even if the truck can pull 12900 lbs which I doubt you would still be over the GCWR. pin weight would be around 2000 lbs if not more. I would pass if it was me. Get a bigger truck or else get a smaller lighter fiver.
Mel

[sourdough]

I think you're making a good decision. I know it's disappointing. Maybe there's a smaller one out there that would fill the bill?

As far as the weight ratings go they all count but the max tow rating is usually irrelevant in my experience. They are always WAY optimistic and obtainable only with a select set of options on the truck. By the time you get the truck YOU want with the options you want, you will exceed one of the other limitations before you get to the max tow weight. They are a sales gimmick for a towing war between trucks. The gvw, gawr, gcwr and payload are all important and not interchangeable and hopefully you can stay under them all and give yourself a safety cushion.

Good luck on finding a trailer that will work for the both of you. As I had mentioned, my truck numbers are almost identical to yours and that trailer would be too big for me. There are however quite a few 5th wheels in the 10k - 11k range that might work.

[ChuckS]

For me that’s too much fifth wheel for your gas engine and gearing setup.. I’m afraid you would have some issues on mountain grades..

Maybe if the rig was gonna stay in the flat lands.... but in the mountains loaded up I’d bet you would not be a happy camper....

Good luck wit( your choice....

[Phil Saran]

As already stated, your probably fine on flat land, but it would be slow going up here
in Colorado with that gas motor.

That said I just sold my 2015 Thor Hurricane 34E Class A motorhome, 19,000 lbs. plus
4,000 for the toad running a Ford V10 getting about 7 mpg. No problem towing up
the hills here in Colorado.

Moving on to a 2012 Dodge Ram diesel/auto/3;73 rear with a tow rate of 16600 lbs.
and a Keystone Cougar 30 RLS 5th wheel which is about 14,000 lbs. or a little less loaded.

[Laredo Tugger]

I guess I missed something in my research.
The enhanced suspension along with the difference in payload (in my favor) because the truck is a gasser (FFV) and 2WD add up to enough truck for the pin weight of the trailer and the hitch package.
Adding 40% to the trucks payload makes it more than any F350. Correct?
I could be wrong and really trying not to be "that guy".
The truck tows and stops the trailer. While it is not "effortlessly" the RPMs and gauges and handling are normal.
I appreciate the help available on here versus a pi==ing match on credibility.
Thanks
RMc

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

...Adding 40% to the trucks payload makes it more than any F350. Correct?

This is from the FAQ section of the Roadmaster website: https://activesuspension.com/faqs/

"Will RAS increase my payload?
RAS could increase payload, but it is not recommended to increase the manufacturers rated payload GVWR, as overloading can cause damage to the frame and other under body components. However, with a RAS installed the vehicle will now be able to carry manufacturers rated maximum loads while reducing rear sag and bottoming out."

There is a heck of a lot more to payload, GVW and towing than "installing something so the rear end doesn't sag any more".

[Tbos]

Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger

I guess I missed something in my research.
The enhanced suspension along with the difference in payload (in my favor) because the truck is a gasser (FFV) and 2WD add up to enough truck for the pin weight of the trailer and the hitch package.
Adding 40% to the trucks payload makes it more than any F350. Correct?
I could be wrong and really trying not to be "that guy".
The truck tows and stops the trailer. While it is not "effortlessly" the RPMs and gauges and handling are normal.
I appreciate the help available on here versus a pi==ing match on credibility.
Thanks
RMc

My F350 has a payload of 5600lbs. I know of one here that has 6000lbs payload.

[Laredo Tugger]

Sorry sourdough,
Yes went with the Laredo 350FB.
Quite the "package". Really happy with the floorplan and features.
RMc