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Old 11-08-2018, 09:19 AM   #1
7Iron
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Halfton or Mid

We are upgrading to a 5er from TT which will require an upgrade in TV (currently 1500 GMC gas w/ 1767 cargo)....

We will purchase the TV first and then the 5er. So I am currently looking at about 15 (2014-16) used GMCs both 2500 and 3500 gas and diesel. However the selection of TV will be heavily influenced by the probable size/wt of 5er.

There are some very good buys in the Gas 2wd that would be very suitable for the 1/2 tons, but are marginal at best pulling a mid Cougar.

The Half Ton Cougars floor plans are very attractive, but what I have read is the "quality" is not as good. I know that the term quality is a very "fat" word with too many meanings.....ranging from thinner structural members to smaller refrigerators.

Our plan is a minimum of 6+ months on the road with one adult son.

Would love to hear your thoughts wrt to the 1/2 tons vs mids

BTW we need a bunk -- an outside kitchen and 1/2 bath is a real plus/ideal
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:31 AM   #2
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My only advice is this, GO LARGER than you think will need to "do the job". Plan on excess capacity to give you a margin of safety. Don't rely on the trailer sticker empty weight and do rely on the yellow sticker on the truck door for capacity. Go diesel if possible. This will spur many debates but the pure fact is you can't beat the torque that a diesel provides and it's the torque that provides the pulling power not the horse power. JMHO
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:25 AM   #3
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Halfton or Mid

Yikes....I was wondering why you wanted to buy your television (TV) before you bought your RV. Grey haired moment lol.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:37 AM   #4
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Whatever TV or 5er you buy, I wish I'd have known about this prior to purchasing my TV.

Good luck on your purchases.
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:49 AM   #5
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Spend a few minutes in the bedroom of a Cougar Half Ton before you commit to buy anything.... If you're OK stooping to get into bed, bending over to get to the side of the bed and only having about 12" at the foot of the bed where you can actually stand up, then the Half Ton may be OK for your use. If you're planning to be in the trailer for prolonged vacations, winters away from home, or use for more than a few days at a time, you may find the bedroom "headroom" is a frustrating problem......

Check it out carefully, compare the two for "bedroom livability" before you make any final decisions. I don't know of any "XLite" or "lightweight" fifth wheel models that do have over 6' of headroom around the bed. If standing up when you make the bed is important, if walking around the bed is important, then do some serious looking before you commit.
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:14 AM   #6
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From my experience...


As far as a 5th wheel goes... Look for one with a 12” drop frame because it will maximize the basement storage.. My 333MKS Cougar is everything we could want in a 5th wheel... except the light weight frame, minimal storage in the basement, 5200 lb axles with associated light weight wheels and tires.


The fixtures inside are nice but laminated particle board with very little REAL wood.. A/C isn't race track duct-ed to the front A/C and neither are quiet.. Wheels are forward of center a good bit in order to reduce pin weight but that results in a lot of rear overhang and the bumper drags going in and out of any low spot.. The convenience center is pretty much a joke with minimum connections... The dump valves are in a drop box under the basement floor but only two the gray water and the black tank, the galley tank valve is facing inside, three feet from the wall...up under the trailer between the slide and the 3” sewer connection...


The steps are standard and nothing really wrong with them but you can't open the door fully or you'll hit the awning so the have a stop rigged up to prevent the door from swinging fully open..

I could go on.. but I think you'll get my point..




The 333MKS Cougar was not a ˝ ton.. but it sure ain't a heavy duty full time trailer...
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:37 AM   #7
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I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse with your purchases. I read about y'all picking out the truck to fit the size of the RV you might buy. Buy the RV FIRST, making absolutely sure that it is the one that will satisfy the two of you for years and years.
THEN head to your friendly TV dealer with the knowledge intact of your needs. Members post on here all the time with stories of their great find in a two-year old 3/4 ton, immaculate, big diesel and every option known to modern man/woman. Sales person said it will pull Vermont all the way to Delaware.
Then when you and Momma find a nice late-model Montana, 41 feet long and all the bells and whistles you look at the little yellow tag and find out your cargo capacity is about the size of a month's worth of groceries.
Believe me, buy the RV FIRST.
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:40 AM   #8
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I agree with Jim's concept, even if the actual "contract signing" is not in that same sequence.

Find the RV you want, then go find the TV that works with it. DON'T BUY THE TRUCK FIRST, then fall in love with a "too big" fifth wheel....
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:49 AM   #9
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RV first! If you are living in it 6+ months consider a unit rated for full time living, like a Montana. Our Laredo is OK for the 2 of us and we are both under 5ft6, it is a mid profile.

It is going to be hard to find a livable bunk house under 14K gross, this puts you in dually territory.

You failed to mention how many destinations and miles are planned in the 6month time span, also the type of destinations, It will make a difference in the selection of both units.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:37 PM   #10
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It is redundant but pick the RV first. Way too many pitfalls doing it the other way. And look thru the units closely. As has been pointed out, there are a number of things that you may or may not like if going with a "1/2 ton" or extra light.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:14 PM   #11
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Wow, all ya all thanks great insights

Wieght and Balance:

Northofu1: got your concern covered....I am even modeling how much of the 5er's cargo gets transferred to the TV (some say 40-60%--TV payload is the controlling weight )....that isn't even addressed in the video, btw I subscribed to KDD as well as 5 other RV Vlogs...Love Ray @ LoveYourRV and the LoLoHo folks from AL are super.
Flybouy: you are the man, GO Larger!! My weight and balance spreadsheet targets min 12.5% and I am getting to conservative above 15% . Our current cargo has stabilized at 1640lbs (I never carry water--not even in my hot water heater) and I am planning for 1800 . I know you are spot on wrt to diesel/torque and I am pretty sure that I will get to that answer. But what you may find surprising is that the payload (controlling weight) in 2500HD is significantly reduced w/diesel especially on the higher end LTZ/Denali (12-24% less payload)

1/2 vs Mid

JRTJH: My son is 6'4, DW 5'9 me 6'1-thanks
Javi: I am not yet sure what 12" df is, but I will find out...the volume/ease of storage is just as important as the 1800#--great heads up!
Are the AC quieter in the Mids?...all of your points were awesome, thank you
You both have provided exactly what I was looking for.....it wont be a 1/2tonner!!


TV or 5er First


Yes, we will have down selected the 5er (maybe 2 max of 3 choices) and will buy a TV to fit but before purchasing the 5er. Frank G , you are scaring me...my son may not be as comfortable as his parents!! most of the 5ers on our list are 14k GVWR'd. and your q wrt to miles/stops has not been well thought out ....thank you again.....but my seat of the pants: 4000-5000 miles 40-60 stops?? your thoughts? Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!! Our notion is two loops: an Eastern and Western. Beginning and ending here in Mobile AL and obviously the W loop will be the most miles....shorter stays/more stops?? (and it may be here that my 1800 5er cargo target will be violated...if BLM is a destination, water will be required??

Thanks to all and Slapshoot it is easier to count my non-grey haired moments.....

Any additional (even minor/insignificant) thoughts are welcome and wanted!!
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:18 PM   #12
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We recently purchased a Cougar 368MBI, 41' loaded trailer weight just shy of 14K. When we bought it we owned a Chevy 2500HD that had a decent payload capacity of 2850lbs. The truck towed it, power was adequate but I would not go more than 100 miles from home, we knew we needed a bigger truck.

Fast forward to today, brought home a Ram 3500HD with a Hemi 6.4L and 4.10 rear end. The yellow sticker payload is 4323lbs, plenty for our Cougar. Moral of the story, buy the 5th wheel you desire, then get the truck! Good luck!
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:56 PM   #13
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Choosing a RV and TV to tour the USA is a lot different than choosing a destination set-up. Those that have done this can help you more than I can. From what I understand there isn't a campsite within Yellowstone that could hold my rig.

Me and the wife talked about a western USA tour and our first thought was to get a small (to us) tow behind (Airstream) for the trip. Fill the back of the truck with a generator, solar panels, tools, jack and all the other non essentials. Yes, I think boondocking at times will be required. The wife has never learned the art of Navy showers.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:34 PM   #14
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Here is a video that may help with questions about the differences in fifth wheel configurations. The guy that does these has a ton of videos and most are really helpful regarding matching the right 5er to the right truck.
At a minimum, he's at least honest and IMHO unbiased.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:33 AM   #15
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"TV or 5er First

Yes, we will have down selected the 5er (maybe 2 max of 3 choices) and will buy a TV to fit but before purchasing the 5er. Frank G , you are scaring me...my son may not be as comfortable as his parents!! most of the 5ers on our list are 14k GVWR'd. and your q wrt to miles/stops has not been well thought out ....thank you again.....but my seat of the pants: 4000-5000 miles 40-60 stops?? your thoughts? Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!! Our notion is two loops: an Eastern and Western. Beginning and ending here in Mobile AL and obviously the W loop will be the most miles....shorter stays/more stops?? (and it may be here that my 1800 5er cargo target will be violated...if BLM is a destination, water will be required??

Thanks to all and Slapshoot it is easier to count my non-grey haired moments....." QUOTE FROM PREVIOUS 7IRON POST *

We did a small (16 day, 8000 km) tour of eastern Canada, it was my first big trip. two nights here and there left no time to intimately tour the surrounding areas and site see. yes we saw lot, it was hectic and I am changing my strategy for this summer. I used Walmart's for travel days to cover significant km's. That part I liked, didn't even open slides, slept, up, and gone.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:21 AM   #16
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Well the advice to choose the 5er first is correct, but you can buy your TV first. If you choose to buy the TV first simply buy a 3500 DRW Diesel, that will solve the issue for any Keystone Cougar.

The other piece of advice quit looking at 250/2500's, it is near impossible to tow a 5er of any size within GVWR, I know that for a fact.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:44 AM   #17
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7Iron, this is part of an earlier reply you posted.

Flybouy: you are the man, GO Larger!! My weight and balance spreadsheet targets min 12.5% and I am getting to conservative above 15% . Our current cargo has stabilized at 1640lbs (I never carry water--not even in my hot water heater) and I am planning for 1800 . I know you are spot on wrt to diesel/torque and I am pretty sure that I will get to that answer. But what you may find surprising is that the payload (controlling weight) in 2500HD is significantly reduced w/diesel especially on the higher end LTZ/Denali (12-24% less payload).

Well there are some things you can't control, we have traveled a couple times with most tanks full. This was due to no dump facility at an equestrian event, and the nearest dump being 20 miles the wrong way. So over the Cascades we went with full tanks. My point have enough TV to be able to travel FULL.

Please just stop looking at 2500's, just look at 3500's both SRW and DRW.
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Old 11-09-2018, 06:12 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=Northofu1;314733]"TV or 5er First
Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!!
If your primary focus is staying in state & Federal parke you may want to investigate max size for those parks. From what I've read most will only take a 27' unit. I don't have personal experience so maybe someone who does will chime in.
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:30 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=flybouy;314745]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northofu1 View Post
"TV or 5er First
Type will be parks (state,Fed,city) primarily. We love COE!!
If your primary focus is staying in state & Federal parke you may want to investigate max size for those parks. From what I've read most will only take a 27' unit. I don't have personal experience so maybe someone who does will chime in.
If youre looking to do mostly state/national parks then this is correct. You'll need a 25 to 30' TT with a short truck to stay at most of those parks as they have length limits & although not posted or mentioned they definitely have height limits as well & trimming a branch or 2 is absolutely not allowed, tight turns & small sites are the norm at most. Some will tell you they have big rig sites, the problem being is getting to them due to those tight turns & low trees or their idea of a big rig is not the big rig you have.
Now if you're fulltiming you'll tire quickly of state parks with no/limited hookups & will be looking more at resort type parks with all the goodies, activities & swimming pools/hot tubs, plus the social atmosphere is a great part of the lifestyle.
When buying the tow vebicle, minimum of a 3500 diesel (some will mention F350, not me), they cost, ride & look like the 2500 (again maybe F250) so start big & have one less thing to think about.
Remember the "dry weight" of the rv & the "max tow weight" of the tv mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to you, you are only interested in GVWs, payload & pin weights.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post

Remember the "dry weight" of the rv & the "max tow weight" of the tv mean ABSOLUTELY nothing to you, you are only interested in GVWs, payload & pin weights.
And remember that listed pin weights aren't really useable either as they are typically based on the dry weight of the trailer.
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