Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2019, 01:26 PM   #21
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
CWtheMan, you have three post discussing the GAWR of the 5er which was never the question by the OP. This has likely greatly confused the OP!

The OP's concerned (and rightly so) of being over the rear GAWR of the TV. Not only is he over the TV rear GAWR, also well over TV GVWR, and approaching the Max GVWR for a F350 SRW.

If you want to show your expertise in axles and tires, refer to the TV.

Well, you know the saying, if you can't say something nice...….I saved it for last, it's in post #17.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:32 PM   #22
AlpineKeith
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Souderton
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbos View Post
2 trailer axles at 7000lbs each means you can have 14000lbs on those axles. Attachment 20237 Here is the scale ticket for my Alpine 3651RL and my F350. All within vehicle limits.
Thanks. The trailer is ok. I am referring to my TV GAWR.
AlpineKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:36 PM   #23
AlpineKeith
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Souderton
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxman View Post
OP, am I right that you are concerned about GAWR of the rear axle on your truck? You show a weight of 6180 loaded for the rear (drive axle). I am thinking your rear (drive axle) GAWR is 6100 and thus the 80lb difference.

The rear GAWR for your truck doesn't appear in your original post and if I am correct above, may be confusing some who could give some advice. No 5er here so I am hesitant to say anything.

Good luck
Thanks Wxman. Yes it is my rear GAWR on my f250. Over by 80lbs empty.
AlpineKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 02:48 PM   #24
AlpineKeith
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Souderton
Posts: 12
Thank you all for your answers. I'm sick to my stomach right now. Will get it right, either bigger TV or smaller trailer.
AlpineKeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #25
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,598
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
Thank you all for your answers. I'm sick to my stomach right now. Will get it right, either bigger TV or smaller trailer.

I know the feeling. I finally made things right in my head by just concentrating on the importance of safety to me, mine and others and the potential outcomes of any type of accident. Took me a while but I was RELIEVED when I went in and bought my current truck (and overjoyed with the driving improvement). I will be just as happy when I go in and buy a 1 ton next go round. Good luck in your search for "your" answer.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:14 PM   #26
John61CT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: CT
Posts: 36
A great example where "overthinking", extensive research with unbiased sources before purchasing, would save a lot of money and heartache.
John61CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 04:59 PM   #27
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,836
There are a couple of current threads on this same topic, slightly different situations with different truck/trailer combinations, but all either "just bought" or "about to buy".... Hopefully, open, frank discussions of options and situations, sharing personal experiences and objective advice will help each of these members in making the right decisions for their particular situation.

There are lots of choices, sometimes we just don't see the stumbling blocks and make a wrong choice. The good thing is to recognize the issue and fix it before something breaks or someone gets hurt.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 05:08 PM   #28
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
Thank you all for your answers. I'm sick to my stomach right now. Will get it right, either bigger TV or smaller trailer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I know the feeling. I finally made things right in my head by just concentrating on the importance of safety to me, mine and others and the potential outcomes of any type of accident. Took me a while but I was RELIEVED when I went in and bought my current truck (and overjoyed with the driving improvement). I will be just as happy when I go in and buy a 1 ton next go round. Good luck in your search for "your" answer.
Well we do know the feeling, I was over GVWR, but under axle and tire rating for too long. I wanted to be on the correct side of the weight ratings in case of an accident.
I have a feeling you will need to go the same way.



Good truck hunting.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 07:28 PM   #29
roadglide
Senior Member
 
roadglide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: nm
Posts: 1,833
Don't freak out my guess is over half the folks towing are over loaded one way or another, it don't make it right but that's the way it is . Make sure your tires have load index at least 3500 each invest in air bags .
__________________
2018 1 ton 4x4 c.c standard bed GMC Denali
Anderson ultimate hitch
2015 311 Impact Fusion toy hauler
2018 Milwaukee 8 FLRTU roadglide glide ultra
2018 800 Z force spot BUGGY.
500 watts of solar enough power for boon docking.
roadglide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 07:30 PM   #30
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
Thanks. The trailer is ok. I am referring to my TV GAWR.

I did the math on that trailer using Keystone specs before I wrote about the axles. You'd have to show me a picture of it's certification label to convince me Keystone hasn't deratred them down to conform with the trailer's GVWR.


Brochure information is not official. The vehicle certification information is certified by the vehicle builder. They are allowed to set GAWR values below the axle manufacturers certified values.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 08:08 PM   #31
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadglide View Post
Don't freak out my guess is over half the folks towing are over loaded one way or another, it don't make it right but that's the way it is . Make sure your tires have load index at least 3500 each invest in air bags .
If you look back back at post #12, based on the empty weight weights and then adding 1,200# to the 5er, OP will be within 480# of the GVWR of a 3500 SRW. The OP would be better off to take any money he would spend on “upgrading” the current TV, and applying it to a larger TV.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 11:02 AM   #32
Don_T
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
I did the math on that trailer using Keystone specs before I wrote about the axles. You'd have to show me a picture of it's certification label to convince me Keystone hasn't deratred them down to conform with the trailer's GVWR.


Brochure information is not official. The vehicle certification information is certified by the vehicle builder. They are allowed to set GAWR values below the axle manufacturers certified values.
The axle rating on my Alpine 3301GR is 7,000 pounds each per the VIN tag on the side of the camper. The GVW is listed as 15,000 pounds also per the VIN tag on the side of the camper. The tires it came with are ST235/85R16. The sidewall weight rating is 4400 pounds @ 110 PSI.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3301GR
2019 Ram 3500
Don_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:09 PM   #33
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_T View Post
The axle rating on my Alpine 3301GR is 7,000 pounds each per the VIN tag on the side of the camper. The GVW is listed as 15,000 pounds also per the VIN tag on the side of the camper. The tires it came with are ST235/85R16. The sidewall weight rating is 4400 pounds @ 110 PSI.

I'm surprised that Keystone is doing that with their axles. It invites the trailer owner to overload their trailer. Two axles rated a 7000# plus a hitch weight of - maybe - 2500# would, if loaded to max GAWR cause the trailer to be 1500# over GVWR. Not good numbers for those not experienced enough to avoid it.


Our area RV show is next month. I'll be sure to inspect all Keystone trailers for that trend. It has never been the practice to do that in the RV trailer industry.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:15 PM   #34
Don_T
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
I'm surprised that Keystone is doing that with their axles. It invites the trailer owner to overload their trailer. Two axles rated a 7000# plus a hitch weight of - maybe - 2500# would, if loaded to max GAWR cause the trailer to be 1500# over GVWR. Not good numbers for those not experienced enough to avoid it.


Our area RV show is next month. I'll be sure to inspect all Keystone trailers for that trend. It has never been the practice to do that in the RV trailer industry.
I don’t know their reasoning but I do know I am happy as the tires are rated far higher than the weight they carry. I have 12,300 pounds total on the trailer axles and that the tires are rated for 17,600 pounds total. I have had my fair share, if not more, of trailer tire issues when they are rated just high enough to pass.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3301GR
2019 Ram 3500
Don_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:25 PM   #35
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_T View Post
I don’t know their reasoning but I do know I am happy as the tires are rated far higher than the weight they carry. I have 12,300 pounds total on the trailer axles and that the tires are rated for 17,600 pounds total. I have had my fair share, if not more, of trailer tire issues when they are rated just high enough to pass.

I was still wondering about the overweight thing and it struck me that those that do it often, may not know what their king pin rating is. It's a serious weak link structural item many overlook. I went and got this picture from my files.

www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29699


That's from my RV show picture files. I don't remember what trailer I got that from but I think it was a Heartland Landmark.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:37 PM   #36
Don_T
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
I was still wondering about the overweight thing and it struck me that those that do it often, may not know what their king pin rating is. I went and got this picture from my files.

www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29699


That's from my RV show picture files. I don't remember what trailer I got that from but I think it was a Heartland Landmark.
The original pin box on my camper was rated at 16k, the Goose Box I have now is rated at 20k.

I know of someone that has “someone” looking over his shoulder as he must have more than 5,000 pounds pin weight. He actually has a home shop instead of his bedroom over the pin. It is an old triple axle camper he lives in. Pulls it with an old beat up F350. I would not want to be on the road with him, but he has been doing it for years. I also met two couples this past summer that were pulling mid size 5th wheels with 1/2 ton pickups. Both had Timbrins and the truck frames were hard on the axles. One was a Ram, the other a Toyota. They both claim to have been all over the country like that.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3301GR
2019 Ram 3500
Don_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:41 PM   #37
MarkEHansen
Senior Member
 
MarkEHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,005
I've seen so many cases where people go over the limits and then tell others that since they've done it with no problems, others should too. There was a video posted on one of the threads on this site a couple days ago which showed a number of folks pulling beyond the limits of the tow vehicle and having the trailer get away from them. I wonder if before their "accident", if each of them would have said "I've been doing this for years and there's no problem"?
__________________
2022 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL - "Big Bertha"
2019 GMC Sierra 3500 Denali HD 6.6L Duramax TD, CC, 4WD, DRW - "Mr. Beefy"
MarkEHansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:47 PM   #38
Don_T
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Livingston
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
I've seen so many cases where people go over the limits and then tell others that since they've done it with no problems, others should too. There was a video posted on one of the threads on this site a couple days ago which showed a number of folks pulling beyond the limits of the tow vehicle and having the trailer get away from them. I wonder if before their "accident", if each of them would have said "I've been doing this for years and there's no problem"?
You are absolutely right! I don’t like when someone can justify, in their minds, that it is ok to tow overweight. I think it is wrong for them to advise others it is ok to do the same. The more overweight a combination is, the more difficult it is to keep under control in an emergency. I think there are a lot of people that don’t think about that. I just do the best I can to stay out of those discussions, they don’t seem to end well.
__________________
2017 Alpine 3301GR
2019 Ram 3500
Don_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #39
Tbos
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Solomons
Posts: 3,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
Thanks. The trailer is ok. I am referring to my TV GAWR.


Thanks for the clarification.
__________________
Tom
2019 Alpine 3651RL
2016 F350 CC DRW
Tbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 02:45 PM   #40
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineKeith View Post
Thanks. The trailer is OK. I am referring to my TV (Rear) GAWR.
Keith, do you have a plan going forward? I know that is a tough question, you are currently pushing the numbers for an F350 SRW!

I wish you the best!


Theses are Keith's numbers that I placed in a more logical order.

2016 F250 6.7 diesel
3.55 axle ratio
GVWR 10,000
GCWR 23,500

2019 Alpine 3400RS
GVWR 15,0000
Keith's "Dry" 5er weight 12,580#

scale info: Truck Only: Steer axle 4,860#
Drive axle 3,540#
Gross Wt 8,400#
This means Max Payload of 1,600#

Truck and Trailer: Steer Axle 4,840#
Drive axle 6,180#
TV GVW 11,020# 1,020 over GVWR, and only 480# short of F350 SRW GVWR.

Pin as scaled 2,620#
Trailer Axle 9,960#
Current (empty) Trailer weight 12,580#
Gross Combined Wt 20,980#

Sorry, if that is empty, and your F250 is loaded for camping, you are likely going to exceed the GVWR of a F350 SRW which is 11,500#.
It is time to be looking at a DRW to carry what you have. If you don't mind changing TV brands, current Ram 3500 SRW have a GVWR of 12,300#, which could likely cover the weight of that 5er, you will still be better off with a DRW TV.


Ford 2016 Towing guide see page 10.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources...e_r2_Oct23.pdf
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.