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Old 03-12-2019, 08:34 AM   #21
spade117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aumegrad View Post
Tongue Weight: It was calculated as: 12% of GTWR + Hitch Weight. They vary due to different GTWR’s


Payload: My original chart was a bit confusing, my apologies. The “GVWR” under the trailer names should be “GTWR”. It is within its limits. I will correct this.

GVWR: 2017 F150 Platinum w/ 3.55 rear. I don’t have my actual but have attached a similar door sticker below
You have a payload of 1463 lbs.

You and family = 515 lbs

Luggage and Misc = 100 lbs (I feel this is a pretty low guess)

Hitch = 100 lbs (not sure why this is listed on the trailer side)

Tongue Weight = 800 lbs (seems more realistic, especially with 2 batteries)

Those numbers equal 1513 lbs. This puts you over GVW of the truck as well.

Are the bikes you have listed loaded inside the trailer?
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:48 AM   #22
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Thanks Sourdough, unfortunately you ask what numbers I use for my calculations, yet state a couple times in the same breath that you won't look at my chart. I stated in my original post that I'd me happy to expound, but it seems pretty clear that would be futile at this point. I'll sum it up to state that my hitch weight was calculated at GTWR (minus 20% transferred to the trailer axles from the WDH) plus the WDH. I would have enjoyed discussing this as I have seen varying opinions, however saw it tested and proven even at a > 20% xfer. My travels will ALL be local (within an hour or 2) at campgrounds with full connections and stores nearby for all the things you mention. Regardless, your opinion is quite clear and I appreciate you offering it. Thanks All!

Yes, I do think you will be overweight. I believe I said I would not "re-study" the chart meaning I had already looked at it multiple times trying to figure out the "assumptions". In fact kept it open for quite some time as I kept referring back to it referencing other numbers you and other websites provided.

My suggestion simplifies all that, making it really simple to get a real life feel for where you will be without personally biased reductions that can/will get you in trouble. Of course, it's your decision and you can choose to be as safe, or risky, as you see fit. At least you are inquiring - now you just have to be objective IMO. Good luck on choosing the best direction.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:11 PM   #23
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JM $.02 But if you have to "run the numbers" to figure out how close you are to your limits, you're already too close.
As others have said, if you get into an uncontrolled situation, say a strong crosswind on a bridge, or an emergency stop or avoid situation, you will be glad of some extra margin of a heavier truck or a lighter trailer.
Also, being "close to the numbers" kind of implies that your towing experience is likely to be "interesting" and it may make you reluctant to do longer runs or even to tow the trailer at all depending on how "interesting" your rig is under tow.
In the long run, giving yourself more margin from the get-go is cheaper than having to re-do the setup later. From what others have described here, if you get the combo wrong, you'll most likely go for a larger truck than a smaller trailer. I think this would be especially true with 3 kids.
Sooo, you have asked for the opinions of the wise heads here, but seem a bit resistant to their answers. Ultimately, you will do as you wish and we all hope it works out for you.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:09 PM   #24
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My travels will ALL be local (within an hour or 2) at campgrounds with full connections and stores nearby for all the things you mention. Regardless, your opinion is quite clear and I appreciate you offering it. Thanks All!
This may not be the place to ask, and I don’t mean to be a grouch, it’s an honest question that I have always been curious of the answer to. Why does it matter if your travels will all be local? I see this stated quite often when people post about their weights and whether they are within limits or not. I would think you are just as likely (or more if you look at insurance websites, etc) to get into an accident close to home versus a day or twos travel away? Look at all the accidents that happen every day, just from people driving to work and home, and that is usually a “close to home” thing. Like I said, I’m not trying to be mean, the statement has confused me for a long while.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:32 PM   #25
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The reason I state that I will be traveling locally isn’t for insurance reasons, rather because we will not need to pack for an expedition and will have easy access to many of the things mentioned above that I would ‘need’ to pack.

One comment above implied that I have made my mind up. I have not made my mind up and I truly came here with an open mind, however not sure there is a discussion to be had. Fortunately there are several who have pm’d me with reasonable responses which will change things a bit and I truly appreciate their input.

Also, I was incorrect in my previous comments concerning weight xfer with the WDH (thanks for correcting me Carrottop). Though some weight is transferred back to the trailer axles, ultimately a 10%-15% required TW is 10%-15% ... period.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:57 PM   #26
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The reason I state that I will be traveling locally isn’t for insurance reasons, rather because we will not need to pack for an expedition and will have easy access to many of the things mentioned above that I would ‘need’ to pack.
The not needing to pack a lot makes sense. Thank you. I hadn’t thought of that until you said it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:22 PM   #27
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I used to be very analytical like the OP with my 1/2 ton, scrutinizing the "numbers" to validate the capability of it. I wasn't over on weight until late in the first season of owning my trailer. In the beginning, I justified my TV choice by reading and asking as much as I could that would satisfy my fears. But ultimately, the fears still existed, I knew I was pushing the proverbial "envelop", and we (as a family) wanted to travel farther than the boundaries of our state. We began our "TV replacement" search before the start of our second camping season.

Now, I no longer have to be anaylitcal with the numbers as my payload nearly doubled, my wheelbase has gained 30 inches, and the towing experiences with a HD platform vehicle are just simply relaxed and enjoyable.

Safe travels this camping season to everyone.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:46 AM   #28
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I used to be very analytical like the OP with my 1/2 ton, scrutinizing the "numbers" to validate the capability of it. I wasn't over on weight until late in the first season of owning my trailer. In the beginning, I justified my TV choice by reading and asking as much as I could that would satisfy my fears. But ultimately, the fears still existed, I knew I was pushing the proverbial "envelop", and we (as a family) wanted to travel farther than the boundaries of our state. We began our "TV replacement" search before the start of our second camping season.

Now, I no longer have to be anaylitcal with the numbers as my payload nearly doubled, my wheelbase has gained 30 inches, and the towing experiences with a HD platform vehicle are just simply relaxed and enjoyable.

Safe travels this camping season to everyone.
I thank you for this response Buster, it makes perfect sense. Fact of the matter is that it isn’t a guarantee that this TT life is for us. Before I start invested $10’s of ‘000’s more on a super duty and such, I would like to ensure it is a wise investment. That said, I sit here with an F150 (which I love) and trying to indentify campers that’ll meet (or mostly meet) all our needs. I realize the numbers are undesirably close but ultimately are doable. Worst case scenario, the wife and kids follow in her car. Or perhaps I can pack accordingly we’re all cargo is appropriately distributed in the TT. Or maybe we tow empty to the location, then go back to load everything else. Point being, I should be able to make the TT’s work, I just have to be diligent about weights and loading which I am good with. In a year or two should we decide this is the life for us, or that we want to start exploring farther out, much like you, I can begin evaluating F250’s.
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:54 AM   #29
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Like 95% of those on all forms that use many different words to ask "will my truck pull this" they are looking for some to say "sure". Those asking are nearly 100% certain the TV cannot SAFELY pull their desired unit. Any vehicle with a payload under at least 1900# is merely a soccer mom's grocery getter. Yes, they will safely pull a popup, some small light TTs and little else. Reality sets in at some point, preferably before an accident as most will go forward anyway. Reality can be a real b!tch.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:17 AM   #30
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I think most would agree that RVing is a "progressive activity". It may start out as "We only plan to camp at the campground 4 miles from home, so we don't need to load a lot of stuff."

Then, the neighbor says, "We're going to the state park (100 miles away) next weekend, do you want to go along? It'll be a great trip for your family." Answer: "No, we only tow 4 miles due to being overloaded" <really?> Most answer, "We'd love to" (as the kids are begging, "Dad, can we? PULEAZE !!!

Then, after that trip, the "mentality" changes to "We made it OK, maybe we can go to Disney World next summer".... <gotta load more stuff>

Then, "Well, we're going to Disney next year, we've got 2 weeks in August, so let's head to the Smokey Mountains this year to see how well we do."...

Then, Hey, we've been OK for 3 trips, 2 of which were long ones, so "Why worry? We'll be OK.".....

Then, on the way home from a trip 50 miles away, the wind is blowing, trailer is all over the road, it's all white knuckle driving and reality sets in as to just how unsafe you really have been......

The next week, you start searching for a bigger tow vehicle.... Many of us have "grown" or "adapted" or "resisted reality" this way. So many that it's almost considered a "normal progression"....

Bottom line, Learn from others or learn from your own mistakes, but if you RV long enough, you'll learn that an adequate tow vehicle is mandatory for safe RVing and very few will limit using it to "our normal site, 4 miles away". The only "rub": Some learn it quickly, some don't......
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:20 AM   #31
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I started towing my 27 foot travel trailer, 24BHSWE, with a F150 ecoboost/tow package. The typical payload was a wife and 4 kids plus all of the camping gear (cooler, bikes, firewood, etc). Like others have said, I was constantly running the numbers and concerned I was overweight. The towing experience was ok but not great. After a year, we decided we loved trailer camping, so I bit the bullet and upgraded to a diesel F250. I no longer worry about being overweight and the towing experience is fantastic. I forget it is back there. Amongst the best towing features is the diesel exhaust brake, which slows me down even on the steepest grade. And I love having the piece of mind that comes from towing with a capable truck. The F250 is also my daily driver and does ok with that too. Just my 2c.
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Old 03-17-2019, 10:27 AM   #32
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Calculations are great.

November 2014, bought a Bullet 204RBS, numbers good for xTerra TV.

Towed TT home in spring easy pull, EQ hitch took weight off jack, nice and stable 80 miles.

Started prep for revisiting places from a 5 month TV/TT,Wife/baby following in car Cross Country trip 40+ years ago.

Loaded trailer, test hook up, tried to take weight off jack with EQ hitch, too hard, raised jack, tried again, made it but, TV front bumper still high.

Storage and Water all forward, did they think people only towed these empty?

Got a big storage box from Tractor Supply, built a frame and hung it from the frame NOT THE WASTE HOSE CARRIER on the back. Front storage now for foam mats, water hoses and real light weight stuff. Reduced Tongue weight to within TV capacity but, just.

Worked for 12,000 miles or so (16000 on TV), had a few tense moments and slow uphill at 10,000 feet.

Replaced xTerra with Tundra, mileage about the same, don't need to worry so much until we get a bigger TT.

Cheap advice:
1. Don't push the limits.
2. Don't assume ANYTHING especially tongue weight, you can't easily move axles like the semi trailers can to adjust weight.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:50 PM   #33
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This question comes up often. The senior guys have the data and all the numbers, but i like to keep it simple. Look at the front drivers door for the sticker with the payload number and do not go over that number. If you say 550 lbs for passengers, plus the trailer tongue weight, weight of the hitch and see what you have left over. That payload number is different for the same 150 or 1500 depending on the trim, they can add a lot of weight. If you are below that number then sure go to the scales, and do the other stuff. No add ons will increase your payload. Get in an accident, they will know. Just went through all of this 8 months ago.
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Old 03-17-2019, 03:40 PM   #34
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Just upgraded from a 2017 F150 to 2019 F250 to pull my 2019 Cougar 27RES. I finally went to a scale last December almost fully loaded. Cancelled the trip and bought a new truck. I had 1,740 payload capacity in my F150. I was over by 200 pounds with the trailer connected. I also bought a tongue scale and discovered that with full water, two trojan 6 volt batteries, full propane and a heavily loaded front storage I was at 1,300 pounds on the tongue. My hitch said max was 1,220 pounds. (Sticker on the hitch). Also upgraded from a 10K equalizer hitch the dealer said would be fine (1,000 max tongue) to a 14K (1,400 pound max tongue). Got to figure that the manufacturers push the numbers to their outer most comfort since the "numbers" are what folks look at. What is scary is that I have been towing for a long time with a Chevy 2500 and the F150. I should know better but got caught up in a new trailer where Keystone has a published number of a empty tongue weight that is far from accurate when empty and a poor placement of a fresh tank too far up front.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:55 PM   #35
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I thank you for this response Buster, it makes perfect sense. Fact of the matter is that it isn’t a guarantee that this TT life is for us. Before I start invested $10’s of ‘000’s more on a super duty and such, I would like to ensure it is a wise investment. That said, I sit here with an F150 (which I love) and trying to indentify campers that’ll meet (or mostly meet) all our needs. I realize the numbers are undesirably close but ultimately are doable. Worst case scenario, the wife and kids follow in her car. Or perhaps I can pack accordingly we’re all cargo is appropriately distributed in the TT. Or maybe we tow empty to the location, then go back to load everything else. Point being, I should be able to make the TT’s work, I just have to be diligent about weights and loading which I am good with. In a year or two should we decide this is the life for us, or that we want to start exploring farther out, much like you, I can begin evaluating F250’s.

I post this after many other previous posts trying to guide you on what you could/should do to make your towing experience safe for you and your family. You made the original post asking for guidance....at every turn, any advice given, unless it would say you have made a good decision - which I haven't seen, is rebutted.

I see no purpose in anyone responding to your post any longer because virtually all try to guide you in a direction that says you are going to be overloaded and you have convinced yourself otherwise - and, you haven't responded to those posts in 4 days.
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