Check me please

[TG10894]

I have about 1500 miles on the combo below (my first) with no significant issues, but would like to get some experienced forum input on my TV capacity versus trailer. I have not had issues yet, but would not pull anything larger with this truck due to "fatigue" of driving long distances.
*Primary question- Is this combo within limits?
*Secondary - How many people would be comfortable with this combo?

I plan to hit the scales the next time I am loaded to confirm weights, but this is the best info I have to go on now.

TV - 2017 F150 Supercab 3.5 EcoBoost with tow package
-Axle ratio - 3.55, Wheelbase 145"
-Max trailer weight 12,000 lbs
-Max Payload 2050 lbs (corrected)
-GVWR 6900 lbs, (GCWR) 17,100 lbs
- Normal passengers and payload probably 900-1000 max

Trailer - 2015 Cougar 21RBS
-Length 26'
-Dry weight 5238 lbs
-GVWR 7200 lbs
- Hitch weight listed as 580 lbs, but I assume up to 900 lbs
Weight distribution hitch and two sway bars, although typically only use 1 for routine driving (normal wind)

[cdotson]

On your truck's capacity are you sure you've specified it correctly? F-150s have two different trailer tow packages, the "tow package" and the "Max Tow package." The max trailer weight of 12k corresponds to a truck of your configuration with Max Tow and RWD (4x2). Is your truck a 4x2 or 4x4? In my searches 4x2 trucks are rare as hens teeth. A 4x4 truck in your configuration may not have the Max Tow package but it appears the 4x2s all do.

Secondly your Max Payload doesn't look right compared to your stated GVWR. Payload is the difference between GVWR and the vehicle's empty weight. There's no way your truck weighs 3500 lbs empty. Either your GVWR rating is wrong or your payload is wrong. Read the labels in your door jamb area. Also the GCWR (not another V) you list is correct for a 4x2 truck...verify configuration.

For tongue weight your 900 lb estimate is about right but it could climb to as much as 15% of trailer weight. Given trailer's GVWR of 1200 that could reach 1,080 lbs. Tongue weight becomes payload to the tow vehicle. Verify you'r truck's GVWR and payload capacity. For 1/2 ton trucks outfitted for towing the real towing limitation is having sufficient payload capacity to carry tongue/pin weight plus passengers plus cargo.

I don't think you can get an unqualified answer to your two concerns without verification of your truck's configuration and the rating labels on your truck.

[KimNTerry]

Not so sure about your 150 payload number, 3220 seems a bit steep. This would put your MFG Curb weight at 3680. I know the bed is aluminum and all but that seems kind of light.

I have a 2018 F-150 with the Max Tow and Heavy Duty Payload Package on mine. It has a payload sticker of 2337 and GVWR of 7850 so Mfg Curb Weight = 5513.

(And yes I know that payload sticker values and Mfg Curb Weight are calculated and NOT actually weighed)

[sourdough]

3220 payload is high for a 1/2 ton. I know Ford says it "can" be that high but?

The numbers for the truck appear to be from the brochure. What does the placard on the driver's door say?

[travelin texans]

I'm not a Ford guy so my opinion doesn't mean much to those that are, but a light weight 1/2 ton with a V6 (boosted or not) is not a tow vehicle regardless of how they may rate it or what brand it may be! I'd like to hear from someone that's towed a decent sized rv 50k miles with one, across the country including the mountains & find out what's left of the truck.

[Ken / Claudia]

Just referring to No significant issues, than no issues. If you have any questions about an incident or possibly towing things you may question. Please spell them out.

[TG10894]

Thanks for the detailed responses. I did make an error on max payload, it is 2050 LBS based on door jamb sticker. This is a 4x2 with the max tow package, so the 12,000 lbs tow capacity is correct.

Based on responses so far, it looks like I can be within legal limits if I limit payload to <1050 lbs assuming a tongue weight of 1000 lbs. My first question was if it was legal, but that doesn't mean its smart. I was looking for some experience from the group on getting in trouble (hills, sway, etc) with this combo. I drive conservatively (60-65) and have not had issues other than it is tiring after 3-4 hours. I have been primarily on the east coast but would like to go out west. Just looking for feedback based on your experience. Running out buying another truck probably won't happen anytime soon unless that lottery ticket hits.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by TG10894

Thanks for the detailed responses. I did make an error on max payload, it is 2050 LBS based on door jamb sticker. This is a 4x2 with the max tow package, so the 12,000 lbs tow capacity is correct.

Based on responses so far, it looks like I can be within legal limits if I limit payload to <1050 lbs assuming a tongue weight of 1000 lbs. My first question was if it was legal, but that doesn't mean its smart. I was looking for some experience from the group on getting in trouble (hills, sway, etc) with this combo. I drive conservatively (60-65) and have not had issues other than it is tiring after 3-4 hours. I have been primarily on the east coast but would like to go out west. Just looking for feedback based on your experience. Running out buying another truck probably won't happen anytime soon unless that lottery ticket hits.

To really know where you are at you need some other information;

The gawr for the truck, particularly the rear on the placard (white I believe) inside the driver door. And, real weights from a scale when truck and trailer are fully loaded; only then will you know where you are against your payload. Also, the weight of your truck loaded and with the tongue of a loaded trailer on it.

Max towing capacity is generally a myth; it's a selling tactic and generally can't be attained within the confines of the other weight limits. Such as, the gvw of your truck. It says it is 6900 lbs. If you drop 1000 lbs. on it from the hitch that leaves 5900 lbs. Now the truck will weigh at around 5000 or more leaving 900 (which is the minimum you said you would have in the truck). Now, weight of family (you don't say how many) so let's say 400 leaving 500 lbs. WDH hitch/100 lbs. leaves 400 lbs. BBQ, tools, blocks, tables, wood, compressor, toys etc. etc. = 400....500? Leaving possibly zero payload or less....and we've forgotten the gawr for the rear.

Folks tow the size trailer you are looking at with a regular 1/2 ton. Not saying they're within limits, but they do. So back to your original questions;

Am I within limits? Maybe, maybe not. You will never know until you load it COMPLETELY for a trip, truck and trailer, and weigh it. 2050 payload for a 1/2 ton is really good. The problem is that it takes a lot of payload to tow a trailer that size with people and "stuff" - generally more than a 1/2 ton has.

Would I be comfortable with that combo? Probably not. Having done that and worse I know exactly what you are talking about when you say "fatigue". The only way to eliminate that is to have an adequate TV. A new truck is not in the cards so.....if you haven't you should 1) install LT tires on your truck, 2) install airbags (I used AirLift 1000), 3) make sure you have a GOOD WDH/sway hitch properly tuned (something like an E2 won't do it), 4) I would install a set of Bilstein shocks and 5) you might upgrade the tires on the trailer to a higher load range (if the wheels support it). All of those things will help firm up the ride and make towing a little less tiresome. Will it fix it completely? No. Will it help? Yes.

It is no fun to drive a TV that is outmatched by the trailer and could lead to drastic consequences. Review your GAWR from the truck and post back and let's see where you are with that. I'm thinking Ford does a pretty good job on the max tow setup so the rear axle ratings may be more than a normal 1/2 ton.

[TG10894]

Originally Posted by sourdough

To really know where you are at you need some other information;

The gawr for the truck, particularly the rear on the placard (white I believe) inside the driver door. And, real weights from a scale when truck and trailer are fully loaded; only then will you know where you are against your payload. Also, the weight of your truck loaded and with the tongue of a loaded trailer on it.

Max towing capacity is generally a myth; it's a selling tactic and generally can't be attained within the confines of the other weight limits. Such as, the gvw of your truck. It says it is 6900 lbs. If you drop 1000 lbs. on it from the hitch that leaves 5900 lbs. Now the truck will weigh at around 5000 or more leaving 900 (which is the minimum you said you would have in the truck). Now, weight of family (you don't say how many) so let's say 400 leaving 500 lbs. WDH hitch/100 lbs. leaves 400 lbs. BBQ, tools, blocks, tables, wood, compressor, toys etc. etc. = 400....500? Leaving possibly zero payload or less....and we've forgotten the gawr for the rear.

Folks tow the size trailer you are looking at with a regular 1/2 ton. Not saying they're within limits, but they do. So back to your original questions;

Am I within limits? Maybe, maybe not. You will never know until you load it COMPLETELY for a trip, truck and trailer, and weigh it. 2050 payload for a 1/2 ton is really good. The problem is that it takes a lot of payload to tow a trailer that size with people and "stuff" - generally more than a 1/2 ton has.

Would I be comfortable with that combo? Probably not. Having done that and worse I know exactly what you are talking about when you say "fatigue". The only way to eliminate that is to have an adequate TV. A new truck is not in the cards so.....if you haven't you should 1) install LT tires on your truck, 2) install airbags (I used AirLift 1000), 3) make sure you have a GOOD WDH/sway hitch properly tuned (something like an E2 won't do it), 4) I would install a set of Bilstein shocks and 5) you might upgrade the tires on the trailer to a higher load range (if the wheels support it). All of those things will help firm up the ride and make towing a little less tiresome. Will it fix it completely? No. Will it help? Yes.

It is no fun to drive a TV that is outmatched by the trailer and could lead to drastic consequences. Review your GAWR from the truck and post back and let's see where you are with that. I'm thinking Ford does a pretty good job on the max tow setup so the rear axle ratings may be more than a normal 1/2 ton.

Sourdough - Thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it.
The tire info from the truck placard is
Front GAWR 3300
Rear GAWR 3800

Tire info 265/60R18 max load 2337 lbs at 51psi

Concerning the "payload", its only my wife and I so ~300 lbs total plus "stuff". I plan a trip this fall, and have already scoped out a place with scales so I will weigh the truck and trailer fully loaded. I suspect the trailer will be on the low side of fully loaded so the tongue weight should be on the low side too.

Fatigue - If I had zero or greatly reduced sway, I think it would be a lot easier. I'm not sure how much incremental improvement I would get from each of your suggestions. I have the basic EazLift Round Bar weight distribution hitch(Part 48059 / 1200 lbs hitch / 14K lbs trailer) and two friction sway bars. Once I get out of warranty, I will probably look to make some additional changes.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by TG10894

Sourdough - Thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it.
The tire info from the truck placard is
Front GAWR 3300
Rear GAWR 3800

Tire info 265/60R18 max load 2337 lbs at 51psi

Concerning the "payload", its only my wife and I so ~300 lbs total plus "stuff". I plan a trip this fall, and have already scoped out a place with scales so I will weigh the truck and trailer fully loaded. I suspect the trailer will be on the low side of fully loaded so the tongue weight should be on the low side too.

Fatigue - If I had zero or greatly reduced sway, I think it would be a lot easier. I'm not sure how much incremental improvement I would get from each of your suggestions. I have the basic EazLift Round Bar weight distribution hitch(Part 48059 / 1200 lbs hitch / 14K lbs trailer) and two friction sway bars. Once I get out of warranty, I will probably look to make some additional changes.

Here are some of the issues you face without going to a larger truck.

Your truck is going to be very close to your payload limit if not over. Even if it's just the 2 of you, if you are even sort of active, you will be taking lots of stuff to enjoy the places you go to. You may not think so, but you will, I see it literally every day. So that's a problem.

Rear gawr - 3800. We don't have a scale weight for anything but let's just figure 5000 lbs. conservatively for the truck. If that splits 2700/2300 F/R we can add to the rear; 1000 for tongue, 100 for hitch = 1100+2300 = 3400 rear axle. BBQ, tools, bikes, compressor (yes, you will need to get one), "stuff" = 500 (guess) = 3900 rear axle weight - exceeding your gawr.
These are guestimates but they show how very close you are going to be to your payload and axle limits - it's just the nature of the beast with a 1/2 ton truck - and it ALL contributes to a terrible driving/towing experience. Also, will you want a hard, locking cover for the bed of that new truck to cover all the "stuff" when you are traveling? Yes. Add about 80 lbs.

Now, your hitch; a Camco Eaz Lift chain wdh with add on sway control (2 point). You have too much trailer for this hitch IMO. It is definitely outclassed by the trailer and you will know it every time you pass a car, get a gust of wind or anything else. It alone will cause you much grief. I've used a hitch almost identical to yours on a 25' trailer that didn't weigh nearly what yours does and it was dismal. With the trailer/truck combo you have you need a very good 4 point wdh with built in sway, not add a bars. I use the Equalizer 4 point and have had great success. They make other, much more expensive hitches but you won't need to pay for that if you just upgrade the obvious things.

Your tires; it appears they are P rated passenger tires? That will cause many problems with that big of a load out back. You need LT tires ran at or near max pressure when towing to minimize the squat and squishy wiggling.

Look at the tires on your trailer. What size are they? What load range? Hopefully you got a trailer that was fitted with tires that are adequate for the load and give you a safety margin; if not, you need to replace them with a higher load range to minimize the trailer moving back and forth, which moves your truck back and forth.

As far as how much incremental benefit you get out of each of these modificatons; not enough, even if you do them all, but they should get you to a point where you are comfortable driving with the trailer. I've been there as have countless others, many on this forum.

The problem with too big of a trailer on too small of a truck is complex. Many of the systems on the truck are overloaded. There is no magic bullet. EVERYTHING that's weak/too small contributes to your problems. You can't fix them all but you basically put bandaids on strategic points to try to make things workable. Is it expensive? Yes. Would a bigger truck be better? Yes. That's why so many of us just said "to heck with trying to make a 1/2 ton into an HD truck...just buy one."

Adding LT tires, shocks or air bags won't void your warranty. A new hitch up to the job is a given to me - probably the biggest thing you could do at the moment. With the max tow pkg. you might let the shocks slide and see how things go with the other mods.

Lots of stuff to think about. Lots of money to be spent (that's what RVs are all about). But, you DO need to take care of the hitch and tires IMO right away. Good luck. It IS possible to get the sway to a manageable level (maybe not comfortable) by making some changes. It won't ever be as comfortable as towing with an HD truck but you need to do something. It's not good or safe to let the towing get to you and fatigue you like that. Let us know.

[Retired Copper]

x2 on the other`s post. Been right where you are at now. My first step; if a new truck is out of the question, would be the hitch and I too like my e4. It made a difference I could feel and I have never had it to sway as of yet, but it important to set it up right. That being said it doesn't keep you from getting pushed around sometimes. Second would be the tires, P rated just don`t cut it. The third thing is shocks; adding a sway bar might help. Trailer tires helped me by going a load range up and having them balanced. My F150 with the 355 gears pulled the trailer pretty darn good but it too was about at the limit with a trailer a little longer and about 800 lbs lighter. I found that anything over 60 to 63mph the truck would get a little loose under some cross winds or some speeding semi`s. When that happens it surely will wear you out or at least it did with me.

[TG10894]

Sounds like a better hitch and LT tires on the truck before the next big trip for sure. I wish I had a "do over" on the 2017 F150, but it is a great truck the other 85% of the time when I am not pulling my trailer.

Thanks to everyone, especially sourdough, for all the input.

[Jerry S]

I don't know any F150 that can safely tow a 5th wheel safely, are you saying you are pulling that 5er in the photo with a F150? Let me know when you are on the road.

Originally Posted by KimNTerry

Not so sure about your 150 payload number, 3220 seems a bit steep. This would put your MFG Curb weight at 3680. I know the bed is aluminum and all but that seems kind of light.

I have a 2018 F-150 with the Max Tow and Heavy Duty Payload Package on mine. It has a payload sticker of 2337 and GVWR of 7850 so Mfg Curb Weight = 5513.

(And yes I know that payload sticker values and Mfg Curb Weight are calculated and NOT actually weighed)

[FlyingAroundRV]

I'll take a stab at the secondary question: I wouldn't be comfortable with that combination. Our TT is a similar size/weight as yours and we tow with a 2WD F250.
It is a comfortable rig and we regularly (every 3-4 days) tow for 3-5 hours comfortably, unless we end up on narrow uneven two-lane road. But even on narrow roads with varying camber, we are still reasonably comfortable, but that requires a bit more focus to stay on the road and in the lane.
I'll probably get beaten up for this, but you seem to have put the cart before the horse. You've bought the truck and trailer and now you're doing the research. IMO, you should have done it the other way round.

[Jerry S]

Love your Aeropilot Legend, I built and fly a RV-6, fun airplanes.

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

I'll take a stab at the secondary question: I wouldn't be comfortable with that combination. Our TT is a similar size/weight as yours and we tow with a 2WD F250.
It is a comfortable rig and we regularly (every 3-4 days) tow for 3-5 hours comfortably, unless we end up on narrow uneven two-lane road. But even on narrow roads with varying camber, we are still reasonably comfortable, but that requires a bit more focus to stay on the road and in the lane.
I'll probably get beaten up for this, but you seem to have put the cart before the horse. You've bought the truck and trailer and now you're doing the research. IMO, you should have done it the other way round.

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

I don't know any F150 that can safely tow a 5th wheel safely, are you saying you are pulling that 5er in the photo with a F150? Let me know when you are on the road.

I don't think the O.P. said ANYTHING about pulling a 5ver. Check the trailer model that he has listed in his very first post and you will see that it is a tow behind! And if there is any doubt, go back and read where he is talking about using a certain WDH!

[Jerry S]

Sorry thought I deleted that, I was commenting on the post made by KimNTerry. The complete quote was quoted in my other reply. Apparently you didn't read the quote I was commenting on.

Originally Posted by xrated

I don't think the O.P. said ANYTHING about pulling a 5ver. Check the trailer model that he has listed in his very first post and you will see that it is a tow behind! And if there is any doubt, go back and read where he is talking about using a certain WDH!

[Frederick]

I have seen a few F 150 v-6 pulling trailers and did not like what I heard some were bing pulled in mountains tr truck went into limp mode quite screwing around and get a diesel problem solved. I pill a 40 ft alpine with F 350 diesel no problems

[theasphaltrv'er]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

"I don't know any F150 that can safely tow a 5th wheel safely", ........................

Jerry S sir. You do now. Our little '13 F-150 XLT HD Boost, with a 2172 payload cap pulls our little 5th wheel perty darn good up & down & around the hills of the Southern Rockies of Southwest Colorado and the other parts of the southwest. Been pulling it for 4 years now.

Milo

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by theasphaltrv'er

Jerry S sir. You do now. Our little '13 F-150 XLT HD Boost, with a 2172 payload cap pulls our little 5th wheel perty darn good up & down & around the hills of the Southern Rockies of Southwest Colorado and the other parts of the southwest. Been pulling it for 4 years now.

Milo

Have you scaled your rig loaded for camping? Looking at the specs of the trailer looks like you might have about 2000 lbs. on the pin....that won't leave much for folks and "stuff". I'm sure you're aware that being able to "pull" it isn't the same as towing it "safely". Not trying to argue, just curious. Generally, any 1/2 ton is hard pressed to have the load capacity for most any 5th wheel. Yours may be the exception?