Hello All, noob question - Yet another tow vehicle question

[Bolo4u]

Originally Posted by RWRiley

When you say tow package, are you talking about the "Max Trailer Pack" option ? If so - your capacities might be higher than you listed. With Max Trailer Pack GVWR=16,800, Max Trailer Weight (I know, I know) = 11,300. I don't have GVWR, but it might be a little higher than you listed. My 2019 Tahoe (with Max Trailer Pack) is 7,300.

Here is where I'm getting the above information:

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-guide.pdf

Also - I see a lot of comments about 1/2 ton trucks not being real tow vehicles, and I don't agree. I'm on my 3rd Tahoe (1/2 Ton) and have pulled trailers with all of them with no major mechanical problems or incidents. I have always paid attention to the weight capacity numbers the Chevy engineers specify, and make sure I have a margin of error. I agree that Max Trailer weight is about useless.

In the section I highlighted, are you referring to the GCWR for what you're trying to convey? If so that is very different than a GVWR for a vehicle or trailer, and people who aren't as familiar as others weight ratings for either their TV, trailer or the combined can really get confused even further.

[RWRiley]

Originally Posted by Bolo4u

In the section I highlighted, are you referring to the GCWR for what you're trying to convey? If so that is very different than a GVWR for a vehicle or trailer, and people who aren't as familiar as others weight ratings for either their TV, trailer or the combined can really get confused even further.

You are correct, My Bad. s/b GCWR. I will go fix original post. Thanks.

[vancouverbrian]

I just retired and was a professional driver. I also over analyze the numbers when it comes to trucks and driving. A really big limit when it comes to towing is payload. Your truck sounds like at its limits and when I was analyzing my purchase, I decided that I was better to buy a 1 ton truck and have lots of payload. The towing numbers came up a bit but it allowed me to then go to a fifth wheel and when towing, it should tow better. Also, the truck itself is bigger, stronger, and capable of stopping better because of bigger brakes. For safety, I thought bigger was better. I then purchased a little bigger trailer (11,000lbs GVW, 9000lbs empty). And I think I will never have to upgrade the trailer. I researched the trailer and knew about what I was going to buy before I purchased the truck. Good luck on your journey.

[falcondan95705]

Do yourself a favor, buy the biggest baddest tow vehicle, then dont think about it..

[RickReichert]

Reading through the posts, I didn't see anyone mention actually weighing your new truck. My advice is to fill the gas tank, load the truck up with DW, grandkids, camping gear, etc. Take it to a public scale and weigh the front axle, both axles, and rear axle. This will give you a real-world starting point to see how much travel trailer your truck can safely pull. Typically our trucks run out of GCWR (truck load carrying capacity) long before they hit the GCVWR (max combined weight of truck and trailer). Others here have talked about trailer hitch,equalizer bars, and trailer tongue weight. I would estimate that actual trailer tongue weight is 50% higher than the manufacturer specifies, due to batteries, propane, stuff in the storage compartment, clothes in the closets, stuff under the bed, etc., etc.

Good luck in your search and safe travels!

[Dboland9]

Don’t forget that engines lose some of their power at higher elevations due to less oxygen in the air. What may work nicely at sea level could be problematic in the mountains. Get a bigger tow vehicle if you are going to spend time in the Rockies

[vancouverbrian]

Originally Posted by RickReichert

Reading through the posts, I didn't see anyone mention actually weighing your new truck. My advice is to fill the gas tank, load the truck up with DW, grandkids, camping gear, etc. Take it to a public scale and weigh the front axle, both axles, and rear axle. This will give you a real-world starting point to see how much travel trailer your truck can safely pull. Typically our trucks run out of GCWR (truck load carrying capacity) long before they hit the GCVWR (max combined weight of truck and trailer). Others here have talked about trailer hitch,equalizer bars, and trailer tongue weight. I would estimate that actual trailer tongue weight is 50% higher than the manufacturer specifies, due to batteries, propane, stuff in the storage compartment, clothes in the closets, stuff under the bed, etc., etc.

Good luck in your search and safe travels!

If you read the original post, this newbie has purchased his vehicle and while he has narrowed down his trailer, he is concerned that it might not be within his tow vehicle towing specs and is asking our opinion. It is pretty hard to do a real world test with a trailer he does not have. I am just saying.

[ND1C]

The Gear ratio will be the problem with that set up. Look at the towing specs of the the same truck with a 3:73 or a 4:10 huge difference.

[RickReichert]

Originally Posted by vancouverbrian

If you read the original post, this newbie has purchased his vehicle and while he has narrowed down his trailer, he is concerned that it might not be within his tow vehicle towing specs and is asking our opinion. It is pretty hard to do a real world test with a trailer he does not have. I am just saying.

And if you read my post, I'm suggesting that he weigh his fully-loaded truck. :-)

[vancouverbrian]

LOL. You got me. He would get the real world number of his truck. I don't think the real world number of his truck is the problem. Adding passengers and gas is not the unknown number but it would be exact. The correct answer is to purchase the trailer first and buy the truck that works with that trailer. And some would suggest buying more truck than needed in case you want to move up in size of trailer. But this way he is severely limited in his options. I would suggest that the weight of the trailer on his payload is going to be the issue. While the estimated number is 15 to 25% of the loaded trailer, those that I have seen do the real world number, show their trailers at 23%. But it is possible to be lower if no water, going out for a weekend and not carrying as much stuff as a full time or snow bird will take with them. I cannot argue that taking the truck loaded to the scale will tell you exactly what is remaining. But will not help with how much the trailer weighs nor how much is on the truck.

[RickReichert]

Originally Posted by vancouverbrian

LOL. You got me. He would get the real world number of his truck. I don't think the real world number of his truck is the problem. Adding passengers and gas is not the unknown number but it would be exact. The correct answer is to purchase the trailer first and buy the truck that works with that trailer. And some would suggest buying more truck than needed in case you want to move up in size of trailer. But this way he is severely limited in his options. I would suggest that the weight of the trailer on his payload is going to be the issue. While the estimated number is 15 to 25% of the loaded trailer, those that I have seen do the real world number, show their trailers at 23%. But it is possible to be lower if no water, going out for a weekend and not carrying as much stuff as a full time or snow bird will take with them. I cannot argue that taking the truck loaded to the scale will tell you exactly what is remaining. But will not help with how much the trailer weighs nor how much is on the truck.

True. I got the impression that he wanted to keep the truck he has, and so should at least know how much real world capacity the truck has left for trailer tongue weight. I"m thinking he needs to be looking at a lot smaller trailer if he wants to keep the truck he has and still be safe.

[vancouverbrian]

I agree with you. If it was me, I would relook at what he wants. And if he thinks he wants bigger or even with the trailer he says he is looking at, trade the present truck in and buy bigger/better. But if he does this, research and maybe purchase the trailer first. And he can do this while he is working and before he retires in case he needs to finance anything. Or he can wait and save up the money and buy it all right. But this is his journey and all we can do is add our 2 cents and try to focus on the things that are important. Good luck.

[P&DZ]

Hello Sambucus,
Lots of great advice and knowledge on this forum. I am also an engineer and lived in the beautiful state of NH for many years before moving to CO. I have nearly an identical GMC version of your TV. Our Cougar 21RBSWE is 5300# dry and 7200# GVW, 25’ length. We travel pretty light with just me and the DW in an otherwise empty TV and TT at approx 6300# scale weight. My experience has been I would not tow anything heavier or longer with my TV.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by FlyingAroundRV

Also, subtract from your payload numbers anything that will be carried in the truck, like people/pets, fuel, stuff carried in the bed...
Using the numbrs John gave you for the calcs is the realistic starting point.
IMO, a 150 size truck is a little on the lean side for a 29' trailer. You will likely find the towing experience "challenging" with that combo.

I think the 2950BH GT is closer to 34' than 28'.

[FBO Cookie Monster]

Also an ( non practicing ) engineer.
It really this easy to get a good estimate of the trailer you can bumper pull.
Open drivers door and get payload number.
From that number, subtract you, wife, dogs, kids, hitch, groceries, generator, cords, fuel for generator, belly button lint, everything in or on truck. Take the new number, and divide by .13. This will be the approximate MAX LOADED weight of a trailer you can attach to your truck without busting the payload number. Divide by .18 if you start looking at “ half ton towable” fifth wheels.

[falcondan95705]

Our dually ram cummins with 2 inside, hitch hits the scales at 9000.. gvwr is 14000..dont take much to push a 3/4 or one ton srw truck over..

[Local150]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I loved how you phrased this: 'get one that you like.'
I'll ask before Danny or one of the 'others' do: Get an RV or get a grandchild that you like...
At times, both are hard to find....

Passageway got my sides aching

[FordFella]

Since everyone is on the subject of towing, I thought I would submit my specs for opinion...


I have a 2016 F150 4x4 crew cab with 3.73 axle ratio. The limits are:
GVWR: 6350
GCVWR: 12,200
Payload: 1550
Towing capacity: 7100


I'm looking at a travel trailer that is about 4500 dry weight, and want to account for putting about 1300 lbs of stuff in it for a total of 5800 lbs. Since the specs for the trailer dry give a hitch weight of about 450 lbs, it seems to be right at 10%, giving me a new loaded hitch weight of 580 pounds. So...


For me, my wife, daughter, and miscellaneous I'm allocating: 600 lbs
Hitch weight: 580 lbs
Weight dist hitch: 100 lbs
Total payload: 1280 lbs (270 lbs to spare)


Trailer is 5800 lbs with a 7100 lbs capacity, so I'm only using about 82% of capacity.


And, I should be well under my GCVWR.


I spoke to the mechanics at my local ford dealer about this, and they said the truck should have no problem and that ford is very conservative with its posted numbers because they don't want a lawsuit. The mechanics actually said my truck should tow 9000 lbs no problem. I tend to have faith in these guys because I have been using this dealership for all my truck needs and these are the mechanics that have been there for years and haven't fed me BS before.


So, opinions? Does this setup look OK, or do we have a problem? I'm a noob, too, and want to learn...

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by FordFella

.... Since the specs for the trailer dry give a hitch weight of about 450 lbs, it seems to be right at 10%, giving me a new loaded hitch weight of 580 pounds. So...

There's a little bit of "what they don't tell you" involved in Keystone's advertising and what you're interpreting....

The dry hitch weight does not include propane (only the tanks are weighed as it leaves the factory) and there is no battery included in that 450 pound tongue weight. So, in reality, add 60 pounds for propane (2x30 pound tanks) and 50 pounds for the battery and box. That will add 110 pounds to the tongue weight making it 560 (empty). 560 is 12.5% of 4500, so that's going to affect your "final numbers crunch" a bit.

I prefer to "err on the side of caution" so I always suggest that the tongue weight will be somewhere between 11-15% of the total trailer weight. Add the hitch weight to that to get the estimated weight that's going to be on your truck's receiver. Why 11-15%? every rig will tow differently based on multiple factors ranging from distance from the rear axle to the hitch ball, distance from the hitch ball to the trailer axles, height of the hitch, wheelbase of the tow vehicle, axle spread distance on the trailer to name a few things that are unique to each rig and different from rig to rig. So, a trailer that tows well at 11% behind a GM 1500 may to better at 12% behind a GM 2500 and may not tow well until the cargo is adjusted to get 14% behind a RAM and it may not tow well until 15 or 16% behind a short wheelbase F150 but tows superbly at 10% behind a long wheelbase F150.... Each rig has its unique "blend" to make it tow the best. So, it's better to "estimate the range and try to stay within the highest and lowest so you have some flexibility when you finally hitch your rig and start adjusting for the best tow conditions.... I hope that makes some sense.....

[sourdough]

FordFella;

Don't go with what you "think" you'll have; go with the gvw of the trailer. Why? You are carrying a wife and daughter...going "light" will quickly go away unless the only thing you ever do is throw an armful of stuff in on Friday evening and come back Sunday afternoon.

For the truck you allocate 600lbs. for you, DW and daughter AND all the misc? After you put in the bbq pit, tables, jacks, tools, bicycle, toys etc.....whoops! That alone just ate up the 600lbs +. Or, leave DW, daughter, toys or some other things that you really wanted to have to enjoy camping - btdt. Little one ain't gonna be happy because dad leaves all her stuff at home because..."we can't carry it". btdt too.

7100gvw on the trailer would give you 852 on the tongue (12%)...real life. Add hitch - 125 = 977. Yes, I know you won't "go there", but, most do. Look at THAT number.

You have a 2016 Ford F150, Crew Cab 4x4... My last Ram 1500 CC 4x4 weighed in right at 5300 lbs. Yours will be close - maybe a little less, but close. Take that then your gvw of 6350 which would leave you a REAL payload of 1050. The numbers you posted makes your truck weight come in at 4800...even. I'm highly skeptical of that.

You are taking the route so many do; rationalize the lightest weights you can imagine to make the truck work. Buy it, it isn't pleasant...in fact dangerous, figure a way to get bigger truck (more debt) and keep trying to make it work.

IMO you are doing a super, smart thing to ask questions about a combo BEFORE you've dug the hole - Congrats! The numbers can be confusing, aggravating and disappointing if you have preconceived ideas of what you want. They are usually an eye opener.

I would highly suggest, particularly with a kiddo, that you 1) only consider the gvw of anything you look at, 2) figure no less than 12% for tongue weight for a bumper pull, 3) know that with a growing child anything you think of now is only going to get bigger and heavier, 4) always leave a minimum 10% cushion between your actual load and your max load limits and 5) ALWAYS remember that you, dad, are the one tasked with the safety of mom and your child. With those things in mind you should always err on the side of safety. Oh, and that "towing capacity" number you posted? That's fairyland stuff so never think of it again.

I hope you find the perfect match for the family. My post is meant to point out some things, not discourage you. You have done one of the most important things you could do by asking first. There are many, many knowledgeable, long time towing folks on here that are willing, and want, to help you find the perfect answer for you and your family.