Tail wagging the dog example

[captcolour]

This was posted over at the Ford truck forum. Truck is/was a F250 diesel, somewhat lifted with aftermarket wheels. Cyclone 5th wheel is heavy, even the shorter units.

Supposedly the driver was only going 40mph, quick yellow light, couldn't stop so ran the red light, and was t-boned in the left rear of the truck. General consensus over there: he was going significantly more than 40, had to really run the red for those on the green to be going fast enough to t-bone him, not knowing the actual model of the 5th wheel, he was significantly over weight by 1000+ lbs.

https://youtu.be/DOnxT1S4Irw

[Harleydodge]

ouch!.............

[notanlines]

Most of the RV's in this line have a pin weight right at 3400-3600 lbs. I maintain that the driver had the wrong hitch........What? You don't think so? Hmmmmm

[Hodgy]

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At least by the end of the video he had the right size TV hooked to the 5ver !

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[Pull Toy]

IMHO using a "tricked out/lifted" 250 LB/CC with offroad tires and family of four, plus a dog, (watch video toward the end) to pull a HEAVY Cyclone Toy Hauler is not a great idea, even on the flat and level.

New truck, new trailer... maybe new driver? It's a shame any way you cut it, but at least it doesn't appear that any injuries occurred. Sheet metal and fiberglass can always be replaced.

[travelin texans]

I think the hitch was fine, it was still connected from what I could tell. IMO they needed a minimum of a 350 & better yet a DRW 350 for those big toy haulers. But I see/hear it everyday "my F150 tows that 35' 5th wheel just fine, hardly know it's back there!", but can it stop it & how much overloaded are the tires, axles, & engine.
Probably had a truck &/or rv salesman telling them "Oh yea! You've got more than enough truck for that!".

[Hodgy]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

Probably had a truck &/or rv salesman telling them "Oh yea! You've got more than enough truck for that!".

I think I have heard that once or twice before !

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[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

...Probably had a truck &/or rv salesman telling them "Oh yea! You've got more than enough truck for that!".

Originally Posted by Hodgy

I think I have heard that once or twice before !

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I can't count the number of new members who have joined the forum, asked the question, "Can my truck tow ...?" and been told, "No, your truck is too light for that trailer." or "No, that trailer is too big for your truck.", only to respond with, "But my salesman told me...." or "My buddy has a friend with the same trailer and ..."

Typically, about half of those members choose to believe the salesman who is telling them it's OK (and they want to believe him because they want the equipment)... We have no followup from those who leave the forum after getting the answers to their question, but of those who do choose to believe the salesman and who remain active on the forum, typically, most will have a new tow vehicle within a year....

It's much the same as the toddler who won't believe mom when she says the oven is hot. It's only after that toddler touches a hot oven door that they understand (and believe) they can get burned. and grasp the concept of "hot". It's much the same with the concept of "too heavy" .....

[sourdough]

There are many things that it appears the driver/owner did wrong;

Truck is overloaded without a doubt IMO. A lifted truck has no place pulling a heavy rig IMO as well; simple physics would dictate that. Aftermarket wheels and tires; the wheels especially look suspect at weight carrying ability.

Driving 40mph? I highly doubt it. Look how far beyond the traffic light they are. I suspect he just plowed right through the light not looking. Quick yellow light? Hit in the rear of the truck by a crossing vehicle at speed? Unless it was a dragster the crossing vehicle would have seen him or would have barely taken off.

Lots of very questionable things going on there. Unfortunately, it's happening every day in the RV world. The bad thing is, a person choosing to do those things is putting not only himself but his family and every other person on the highway in jeopardy.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by sourdough

There are many things that it appears the driver/owner did wrong;

Truck is overloaded without a doubt IMO. A lifted truck has no place pulling a heavy rig IMO as well; simple physics would dictate that. Aftermarket wheels and tires; the wheels especially look suspect at weight carrying ability.

Driving 40mph? I highly doubt it. Look how far beyond the traffic light they are. I suspect he just plowed right through the light not looking. Quick yellow light? Hit in the rear of the truck by a crossing vehicle at speed? Unless it was a dragster the crossing vehicle would have seen him or would have barely taken off.

Lots of very questionable things going on there. Unfortunately, it's happening every day in the RV world. The bad thing is, a person choosing to do those things is putting not only himself but his family and every other person on the highway in jeopardy.

Well seeing how the lightest Cyclone DRY is 14,164#, most are 15,000#+, while trailer brakes stop the trailer, and TV brakes stop the TV. That is a lot of weight to stop, but also a lot of weight to be pushed a ways after impact.
I agree that the biggest contributor to the accident was the over sized tires, this will reduce the effeteness of the TV brakes due to greater distance to the tire tread.

[captcolour]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Most of the RV's in this line have a pin weight right at 3400-3600 lbs. I maintain that the driver had the wrong hitch........What? You don't think so? Hmmmmm

Some on the Ford truck forum thought the hitch was attached to the plastic bed liner!

[Pull Toy]

Probably not, if you look at the Bed,you can see the liner was cut away around th rails. The front rail is still bolted to the bed.

While we’re second guessing, why didn’t the salvor use a second tow truck to pull the 5er back, while still lifted by the rotator, then just flip the truck? The TV was already totaled, but the wreck could have been cleared in half the time on a busy road. Billable hours?

[captcolour]

Originally Posted by Pull Toy

Probably not, if you look at the Bed,you can see the liner was cut away around th rails. The front rail is still bolted to the bed.

While we’re second guessing, why didn’t the salvor use a second tow truck to pull the 5er back, while still lifted by the rotator, then just flip the truck? The TV was already totaled, but the wreck could have been cleared in half the time on a busy road. Billable hours?

I thought the same thing about pulling the 5er back. I think it was close to the intersection though, so would have closed that to do it. Plus the back bumper was close if not touching the ground at some point.

Had to educate those on the truck forum that the rails for the hitch were attached to the truck frame and not just the bed liner. Can't believe anyone seriously thought that.

[vampress_me]

Well, it was interesting to watch. Is this a video people can be pointed to for the "can I tow it" question? Answer - sure, you can tow it, you may not be able to stop it in a normal way....

[CaptnJohn]

Wondering ~~ how far over payload was the F250. Probably 2500# +/- and hitch/pin had to be over 1000# more plus passengers and 'stuff'. Add the lift kit and weird tires could approach a ton. Biggest wonder is if or how did the lift kit contribute to the outcome.
Did the driver receive a citation, if so for what?

[PopBeavers]

FWIW There is a similar thread running on RV.NET, for anyone interested in more discussion on this topic.

[Tinner12002]

Been on other sites and had posters say not to worry about being over GVWR on TV as long as your under GAWR on it...that was probably one of those people that believed them!

[Tinner12002]

Originally Posted by captcolour

Some on the Ford truck forum thought the hitch was attached to the plastic bed liner!

And that surprises you...oh sorry just seen your sig...Lol! Just kiddin.

[goducks]

A clear case of a guy thinking he knows more than anyone else. Why would anyone with a normal amount of common sense pull that big of a TH with a lifted truck that has over sized tires? You can clearly see the new lift kit trailing arms at the 1:00 30 mark. Also you can see the new longer U bolts on the rear axle. That and the fact that his rims were a weak point as well. And factor in that trucks are already getting taller at the tailgate so his TH was probably riding 5-6 " high in the front. Tail wagging the dog is right. But hey he looked real cool for a while. At least in his little all about me mind he did.

[CaptnJohn]

Lift kit and tires just a couple of mistakes. Certainly over payload by a lot. Possibly over other weight ratings as well. Running a yellow ~~ because he "could not stop". So many reasons not being able to stop, not one is excusable.