Need Help!!!

Lisa B · 11-20-2018, 06:34 AM

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

wiredgeorge · 11-20-2018, 06:48 AM

The human weight computers will be along soon. Go to your truck and write down everything on the plate on the door like the weight stuff. Then get the specs on the camper you are interested in; pin weight and gross weight, etc. The folks who work these numbers will be able to give you an idea if your truck is up to snuff. Also will want to know the axle ratio, bed length and what model F250... crew cab, regular cab and the like. It is a pretty complicated issue unless the truck is way insufficient for the towing and then a quicker answer will come. Good luck! You did good to ask before buying the trailer and NOT asking a salesman bwhahahaha

**JRTJH** · 11-20-2018, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa B

Have a 2014 Ford 250 6.7 diesel. Was seriously thinking about purchasing a Carbon 357 but have figured out its just too big for our truck. We cannot afford nor desire a bigger truck. Asking now about the 337. Its quite a bit smaller and less overall gross and hitch weight. Any feedback?

Assuming your truck is an XLT or more expensive and a SuperCab or CrewCab, your payload is somewhere between 1900-2300 pounds. This is due to the "GVW max" of 10,000 pounds for all F250 trucks. Some argue that is "documentary only" (paperwork) some say the F250 is really a F350 with a different sticker, some say.... <fill in the blank>...

That really doesn't make much difference if you're going to follow Ford's payload limitations. The empty 357 pin weight is 3060 and the 337 pin weight is 2755. Most people who own toyhaulers indicate that with the garage filled with their toys, they offset about 200-300 pounds of pin weight. Assuming you tow and load your trailer similar to their experiences, unless you travel alone (nothing/nobody in the truck cab and the bed empty) you're going to be "at or above" your F250 maximum payload and probably also at or above your maximum F250 GVW.

Now, if you ignore the F250 GVW and consider your truck is really a rebadged F350 in disguise.... Well.....

Lisa B · 11-20-2018, 09:42 AM

we do have Ride Right airshocks in our 250. I just cant imagine this truck not being able to handle the 337. It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.
Direct from Ford Tech dept, the numbers are 15900 and 3250. So that looks like its well within the tolerable limits. I understand that adding a generator and hydraulics will increase the hitch weight, but with cargo in the rear garage that seems to me that it will take some of the load off the front end.

**sourdough** · 11-20-2018, 09:52 AM

Forget the "Ford tech dept." - they are clueless about your specific truck. Look at the placards inside the driver's door for the gawr of each axle, total gvwr and payload. THAT is what your truck weight limits will be, not generic numbers in a best case scenario. You can also forget the "max tow rating"; the other numbers will tell you what that will be and you will max out your payload and/or gawr before you ever get to that number in most cases, especially with a diesel 250. John has pretty much told you, optimistically, where you will probably end up. The Ride Right airshocks have no bearing on your weight limitations - they just help keep the load level....that's it.

Lisa B · 11-20-2018, 09:56 AM

Well they looked at the VIN number and got specific info about the truck. And John sent numbers that are in our wheel house, so not sure you what you mean

rjrelander · 11-20-2018, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa B

It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.

Dry Weight 11,925 lbs.
Payload Capacity 4,830 lbs.
GVWR 16,755 lbs.
Published Dry Hitch Weight (23%) 2,755 lbs.

Loaded Hitch Weight (23%) 3,850 lbs.

Tinner12002 · 12-05-2018, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjrelander

Dry Weight 11,925 lbs.
Payload Capacity 4,830 lbs.
GVWR 16,755 lbs.
Published Dry Hitch Weight (23%) 2,755 lbs.

Loaded Hitch Weight (23%) 3,850 lbs.

On my truck, the listed pin weight was nearly right on with the hauler loaded to near max so I would think that would be typical across Keystones products. So with the 16,755lbs the pin would be right around that 2755lb figure though it could vary a few pounds.

Stircrazy · 11-29-2018, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa B

we do have Ride Right airshocks in our 250. I just cant imagine this truck not being able to handle the 337. It weighs 11700 pounds and the hitch weight is 2755.
Direct from Ford Tech dept, the numbers are 15900 and 3250. So that looks like its well within the tolerable limits. I understand that adding a generator and hydraulics will increase the hitch weight, but with cargo in the rear garage that seems to me that it will take some of the load off the front end.

take the truck with a full tank of gas and all the people that are normally in it when you are going to go camping. go to a scale and get your front axel and rear axel weights . add the numbers and subtract them from your max gvw and that will tell you how much payload you have left for trailer hitch weight. when they say 3200 that is bare, now you have to subtract the weight of the people, the gas and everything else you put in the truck.. oh and about 200 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch.

Steve

**sourdough** · 11-29-2018, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stircrazy

take the truck with a full tank of gas and all the people that are normally in it when you are going to go camping. go to a scale and get your front axel and rear axel weights . add the numbers and subtract them from your max gvw and that will tell you how much payload you have left for trailer hitch weight. when they say 3200 that is bare, now you have to subtract the weight of the people, the gas and everything else you put in the truck.. oh and about 200 lbs for a 5th wheel hitch.

Steve

The method above will give you a starting point. The legal, stickered payload will probably be less than what you come up with using the above method.

Lisa B · 11-20-2018, 10:06 AM

So are you saying the 337 is still too big? I understand your point, but I dont understand why I have seen so many 250s towing toy haulers like this and say they have no problems.

John61CT · 11-20-2018, 10:22 AM

Wow that's a heavy towball.

I'd move the axle forward if possible.

I shoot for 12% max, 8% ideally.

Harleydodge · 11-20-2018, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John61CT

Wow that's a heavy towball.

I'd move the axle forward if possible.

I shoot for 12% max, 8% ideally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Huh ??? Which John are you asking about 8%??????

I believe, the other one

rjrelander · 11-20-2018, 10:32 AM

Carbon 337 is a 5th wheel toy hauler. It's usually 15% to 25% for fifth wheels and gooseneck trailers isn't it? Either way, just used 23% because that was what they used for the published dry hitch weight ... 2755 / 11925 = 23% ... using same percentage for (fully) loaded hitch weight is 16755 * 23% = 3850.

Lisa B · 11-20-2018, 10:37 AM

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.
Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!

**JRTJH** · 11-20-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa B

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!

The speed limit on M-32 from our house to Gaylord is 55MPH. The fact is that when driving that speed I get passed by everything from "grandma's in Escapes" to 18 wheelers in the left lane.... I can't figure out why they all are "OK driving faster than the speed limit"..... Same argument you're making. THAT STILL DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR YOU TO IGNORE THE NUMBERS..... If you choose to do so, nobody here will stop you (physically) from buying or towing any trailer you choose. But, you did ask for "numbers to validate whether it's OK or not. The numbers, both from your truck's door post (not some VIN generated website) indicate the true capacity of your vehicle as Ford built it. The numbers from the Keystone website for both trailers that interest you give pin weights greater than Ford certified your truck to carry.

What you do with that information is entirely up to you. And, if you read the notice (actually a warning) on the RideRite Air Shocks installation instructions, it states that their product DOES NOT increase payload or GVW. YMMV

**sourdough** · 11-20-2018, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa B

Well i appreciate all the feedback, but now we are totally confused. It seems like we get a different answer from every person we ask. The fact of the matter is we see 250s towing 5th wheel toy haulers all the time and cant figure out why this is so difficult to figure out.
Im to the point now where Im about to just say forget it!

Lisa, I think everyone with knowledge and experience is telling you the same thing. Your door stickers will verify that. As JRTJH (John) said, no one is going to make you do anything. And yes, there are lots of folks pulling all kinds of things that they shouldn't. Does that make them smart? No. Does it make them safe? No. Are they doing it out of ignorance or just a lack of concern for themselves, their family and others? I have not a clue - probably some of both and more of the latter than we would like to think.

Back in the day, 35+ years ago, I took a little Ford Ranger to load firewood into a 16' boxed edge trailer. Everybody pulled anything with whatever they had back then..."they" all did it - if you had a receiver and it could make it roll....you were good to go.

Finished cutting a nice load of pinon pine and quit about dark. Started on the trip back home (about 4 hours) and headed down the little narrow winding road (asphalt) down the side of the mountain. Straight up rocks on one side and straight down a few hundred feet on the other (back then no guard rails - and still aren't thankfully - ruins the road to me). The front end of the pickup felt light, headlights pointing up but hey, everyone else did it, right? As I came to the steepest, twistiest, baddest part of the road I hit some bumps in the road; going down a very steep incline with a sharp turn in front of me. My front tires left the road and left me unable to turn the truck. I was hitting the brakes and fortunately it got my nose down enough (on multiple drops) to keep me from going over the edge and I got stopped. Re-loaded the wood for better weight distribution and drove very slowly back home.

What does that have to do with your scenario? You will be in the same situation....knowingly. The problem is, all those folks roaring down the highway with that 250 pulling a 16k trailer at 80mph will get by with it....until. Tire blows; emergency stop; kid steps in front of you; car pulls out; bicyclist fails to yield, etc. etc. etc. Whatever it is will happen without warning. When it does, and something bad happens, and you are over your weight limits, there is a very real possibility that 1) you will not be able to take the evasive maneuvers you should be able to due to being overweight and 2) when the dust clears you will be the one charged for the accident - sort of like the guy that gets hit in the rear because he backed out like a jet - but you will get the ticket

Long post but you need to really think about what you are doing on this.

Irv gates · 11-28-2018, 01:28 PM

I have had pin weights on trucks from 1500 to over 2000 lbs. I have gone from F250,s to 1 ton SRW to 1 ton DRW. I personally with a pin weight of over 2000 lbs would be hauling with at least a 1 ton DRW truck. Its a safety issue and a control issue when Iam on the road pulling. Sorry ,but after towing for 32 years ,this is the way I feel. Happy trails

brodiegg · 11-30-2018, 06:42 PM

Understand, it was complicated when last year i purchased a coach that everyone said my Ram 1500 could tow. Just look at the driver side door jam and see the payload of your truck. then add the tongue weight, passenger weight and the rest of the stuff and you will see if you can safely tow your coach

ctbruce · 11-20-2018, 10:51 AM

Lisa B and others, the link in this post below is a video about how all the weights work together and is excellent. It'll explain about what most critical numbers are and how they reduce some numbers given in the brochures. Well worth the watch. It is also put out by a group that is only interested in RV safety. Well worth the watch and eliminates gut feelings and opinions from decisions. After all, every ones safety is utmost on our minds. https://rvsafety.com/rv-education/ma...ks-to-trailers

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