Electrical Short

[dmjlocal]

We are full time RV'ers in a 2023 Keystone Cougar 33RLI and our power went out the other day and found the plug in out trailer has burned out. What would have caused this? Loose wire or using too much amps? We are trying to fix this ourselves rather than send to the dealer since we live in our RV and can't afford it to be at the dealership for an extended period of time. Any tips would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

Most likely cause is a loose connection arcing. Do you use the locking ring?

[jasin1]

you should also avoid connecting the shore power cord while it’s energized…leave the breaker off until you make the connections to avoid arcing

[notanlines]

I’m a little confused. I was under the assumption that the 33RLI was a 50 amp RV, yet you show a photo of a 30 amp connection. Has this changed in recent years?

Now I see it!

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I’m a little confused. I was under the assumption that the 33RLI was a 50 amp RV, yet you show a photo of a 30 amp connection. Has this changed in recent years?

The picture is for a 50 amp Rv side of the shore power

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by notanlines

I’m a little confused. I was under the assumption that the 33RLI was a 50 amp RV, yet you show a photo of a 30 amp connection. Has this changed in recent years?

It is 50A, the ground is on the side of the plug.

[rhagfo]

Well the OP now needs to replace both the trailer receptacle and the cable plug end as they are both heat damaged.

[sourdough]

That could have been a loose connection arcing but I would definitely be checking things out. That would have been smoking/smoldering. I would think it would be seen or someone would smell it. If the ring is screwed down there shouldn't be any wiggling, was the end of the cable worn/loose/old etc.? It's a 23 so wouldn't think so. Looking at that RV twist lock why are those screws so rusty...on a '23? Looks like maybe the ground and the lower lug were underwater and fried?

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by dmjlocal

We are full time RV'ers in a 2023 Keystone Cougar 33RLI and our power went out the other day and found the plug in out trailer has burned out. What would have caused this? Loose wire or using too much amps? We are trying to fix this ourselves rather than send to the dealer since we live in our RV and can't afford it to be at the dealership for an extended period of time. Any tips would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.

As has been suggested, a loose fit of the power cord’s female end jaws that do not pinch the prongs of the camper’s receptacle tightly, can cause heat buildup resulting in the damage depicted in the photo. BUT, you should know that if the power pedestal you are plugging into has been mis-wired, could also cause the neutral position damage as pictured. If the pedestal has both hot legs deriving from the same phase, then the neutral will carry the sum of both hot legs. To test if this is the case, take a reading between both hot legs. If the reading is 240, you are ok. If the reading between both hot legs is zero, and from hot leg to neutral is 120 volts, then you definitely have a problem with the pedestal power. If the sum of both legs exceeds 25+ amps That will load the neutral with 50 amps. For every amp that exceeds the sum the 2 legs greater than 50, the neutral will bear the load. For example if each hot leg is carrying 40 amps, the neutral will have an 80 amp load placed on it. Fixing the damaged parts will will only postpone another failure til the mis-wire is corrected. If your power cord was new with your 2023 camper, this is a possibility.

[dmjlocal]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Welcome to the forum

Most likely cause is a loose connection arcing. Do you use the locking ring?

Yes always make sure to use it and that it's secure and tight.

[dmjlocal]

Thank you for this. We will test this out tonight.

[flybouy]

As has been noted both the cable end and the RV entrance must be replaced. With heat damage it's imperative that strip back the wire insulation until you find undamaged wire. Any discoloration in the wire (any appearence other than shiney, new looking copper) is not acceptable and if connected to a new connector will lead to premature failure.

[rlh1957]

You can buy the replacement receptacle st most camping supply stores or Amazon.
It is an easy change out.
Reseal around it after removing and replacing.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by dmjlocal

Yes always make sure to use it and that it's secure and tight.

Just tightening the ring isn't enough. When you first connect the plug to the camper it is important that you twist the plug to the right to make a solid connection and then tighten the locking ring.

[MJCougler]

CedarCreekWoody makes a valid point which I would like to confirm and add to.

We recently traded our 2011 Laredo for a 2019 Cougar 25RES. We have yet to take it out, but I recently set it up in our yard for our daughter's family visit. She reported the interior outlets did not work. After an hour of troubleshooting I discovered I failed to turn/twist the 90-degree shore power cable all the way at the RV connection point.

If dmjlocal possibly did not fully turn the cable connector and was making minimal connection. and drawing 30 or 40 amps, it could have caused arching and causing heat to damage the connectors.

[bobbecky]

Originally Posted by firestation12

As has been suggested, a loose fit of the power cord’s female end jaws that do not pinch the prongs of the camper’s receptacle tightly, can cause heat buildup resulting in the damage depicted in the photo. BUT, you should know that if the power pedestal you are plugging into has been mis-wired, could also cause the neutral position damage as pictured. If the pedestal has both hot legs deriving from the same phase, then the neutral will carry the sum of both hot legs. To test if this is the case, take a reading between both hot legs. If the reading is 240, you are ok. If the reading between both hot legs is zero, and from hot leg to neutral is 120 volts, then you definitely have a problem with the pedestal power. If the sum of both legs exceeds 25+ amps That will load the neutral with 50 amps. For every amp that exceeds the sum the 2 legs greater than 50, the neutral will bear the load. For example if each hot leg is carrying 40 amps, the neutral will have an 80 amp load placed on it. Fixing the damaged parts will will only postpone another failure til the mis-wire is corrected. If your power cord was new with your 2023 camper, this is a possibility.

This is not correct. The neutral carries the imbalance of the loads on the two hot legs. If one leg has 40 amps of load and the other hot leg has 30 amps of load, the neutral will have 10 amps of load on it. If both legs were equally loaded, the neutral will have little to no load on it. On a 30 amp circuit on an RV, with only one hot leg, the neutral will carry the same amps as the hot leg, but on the 50 amp RV system, the neutral only carries the imbalance of the two hot legs. On utility service drops, overhead or underground services, the neutral is always half sized. On an overhead drop, usually with two 1/0 hotlegs, the neutral will be #2 strand. Two #2 strand hotleg drop will have a #4 strand neutral. Underground cable drops are the same, like a drop with two 4/0 hotlegs will have a 1/0 neutral.

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

This is not correct. The neutral carries the imbalance of the loads on the two hot legs. If one leg has 40 amps of load and the other hot leg has 30 amps of load, the neutral will have 10 amps of load on it. If both legs were equally loaded, the neutral will have little to no load on it. On a 30 amp circuit on an RV, with only one hot leg, the neutral will carry the same amps as the hot leg, but on the 50 amp RV system, the neutral only carries the imbalance of the two hot legs. On utility service drops, overhead or underground services, the neutral is always half sized. On an overhead drop, usually with two 1/0 hotlegs, the neutral will be #2 strand. Two #2 strand hotleg drop will have a #4 strand neutral. Underground cable drops are the same, like a drop with two 4/0 hotlegs will have a 1/0 neutral.

You didn’t read and comprehend my reply. I said if BOTH hot leads were wired at the pedestal from the same phase, the neutral would carry the sum of the two. What you stated is true, ONLY if each of the hot legs are connected on opposite phases. I’m staying at a KOA campground that had done just that. Fortunately I checked the pedestal prior to booking up. There was no reading between the two hot legs, yet each showed 120 volts to neutral and ground. In pulling the cover of the pedestal, I found a single hot leg with a jumper to the other leg.

[bobbecky]

You likely only had one 50 amp leg feeding the two hotlegs and there would never be more than 50 amps combined between them, so essentially like a 30 amp service and there would not be more than 50 amps on the neutral. The only way there could be more would be if that one hotleg was fed by say a 100 amp single pole breaker. That whole situation sounds very dangerous, and wonder who the genius was that wired that.

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

You likely only had one 50 amp leg feeding the two hotlegs and there would never be more than 50 amps combined between them, so essentially like a 30 amp service and there would not be more than 50 amps on the neutral. The only way there could be more would be if that one hotleg was fed by say a 100 amp single pole breaker. That whole situation sounds very dangerous, and wonder who the genius was that wired that.

Again, you would be correct, if your assumption were true. But as I stated, I removed the cover to determine the cause. There was no “you likely had only one 50 amp leg feeding the two hot legs and there would never be more than 50 amps combined between them”. The jumper was placed across the two landing lugs which fed both sides of the 50 amp 2 pole breaker. As I recall the feeder was a 3/0 wire. The net result would have been each pole of the 50 amp 2 pole breaker would have access to deliver their full potential of 50 amps to each leg of the receptacle. Further investigation revealed the previous pedestal was where the second phase wire was omitted and only a single continued the daisy chain to the remaining 3 pedestals. Whatever reason this was done for, was gross negligence or ignorance on their part. The heat wave here in south Texas has demanded both a/c units and absorbtion fridge to run non stop for the past 2 weeks. I wouldn’t bet that the neutral load would not exceeded a 50 amp current at times. Yes, perhaps resident genius Wiley Coyote worked here in the past. I’ve seen plenty of genius wiring here. I wonder how the 1 foot of 3/4”pvc water pipe exposed above ground at each pedestal will fare this winter should temps drop below freezing as they did 2 years ago. I have a prediction for that too. Thanks