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Old 06-20-2019, 06:51 PM   #21
cookinwitdiesel
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So...the next chapter of the saga! After taking the tires to NTB they went to work on them. They got 2 tires installed but then broke the duck head (? - part on their machine) which stalled them out until today. They got a 2nd part from the NTB down the block (for some reason there are 2 literally visible from each other) and started seeing it get stressed and then threw in the towel on my wheels. They ended up apologizing and did not charge me for anything (they did in fact get 2 tires swapped out) - they were great to work with and did NOT do any rim damage - they just do not have heavy duty enough equipment for 14 ply G rated tires. I collected everything and went back home for the night. They recommended a couple shops that do a lot of fleet work as they should have machines with metal duck heads whereas theirs were plastic. They advised I need to find someone who has a metal duck head with a plastic cover so it will not damage the aluminum rims. Apparently truck rims are often Steel and therefore you do not have to be as gentle with them (problem I had with the first shop - they aren't well practiced in aluminum rims clearly).

Once back home, I installed the 2 Sailun mounted wheels on one side of the trailer (I have been really paranoid having it on jack stands since Monday - I am sure it is fine, but I was the one doing the jack stands and do not consider myself a pro by any stretch of the imagination). I then went to air up the other 3 and was going to put 2 westlakes back on the other side and remount the spare. I learned 3 interesting things at this point.

1) One of the wheels with a Westlake still on it has something loose INSIDE the wheel that bounces around when I roll it
2) The spare tire with a Westlake still on it had a loose valve in it so it wont hold air above about 85 PSI (should be an easy fix - just need to tighten it down)
3) My Harbor Freight 2 HP 8 Gallon Air compressor with 125 PSI on the side in huge text can't do a puff above 95 PSI. My 6 Gallon Porter Cable Pancake Compressor hit its advertised 150 PSI like a champ

The mission tomorrow is finding a shop that does work on heavy duty wheels/tires but can ALSO handle working on aluminum rims without damaging them. We were thinking about camping this weekend somewhere near by, that is now a one nighter at best.

What was supposed to be a 1/2 day project getting tires swapped out has dominated my week with nearly 300 miles driven now......
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Old 06-20-2019, 06:57 PM   #22
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What a saga!! Hope you get it all sorted out soon, waiting for you out here!!
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:42 AM   #23
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I know it may be a little out of the way but you might want to call Little Tire located in Fredericksburg they have two locations.

They do a lot of tires and even have a truck for roadside stuff like big trucks.

They have a large parking area in rear at their southern location and can change the tires in the lot if you tow it in.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kksfish View Post
I know it may be a little out of the way but you might want to call Little Tire located in Fredericksburg they have two locations.

They do a lot of tires and even have a truck for roadside stuff like big trucks.

They have a large parking area in rear at their southern location and can change the tires in the lot if you tow it in.
Good to know, if we head south for a trip they may become a pit stop for us!
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
3) My Harbor Freight 2 HP 8 Gallon Air compressor with 125 PSI on the side in huge text can't do a puff above 95 PSI. My 6 Gallon Porter Cable Pancake Compressor hit its advertised 150 PSI like a champ
I also have a Porter Cable pancake compressor which I have been very impressed with.

Good luck with the tires. I hope it gets worked out soon.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:38 PM   #26
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Success!! All 5 wheels are now wearing Sailuns and back on the trailer

The shop that was able to do this correctly also can do my state inspection and when I am ready to put on disc brakes, will help with that too!
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:41 PM   #27
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Woo Hoo!!! Now start using it.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:47 PM   #28
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That is great to hear!! I'm glad you got it taken care of albeit with a lot of running and stress. Thanks for sharing; that a little tidbit that can be stored that might come in real handy one day.
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Old 06-22-2019, 06:08 AM   #29
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Just curious (nosey?) - what was loose and making noise inside the mounted tire? If I had to guess, I would say a wheel weight? Or was it a chunk of broken tire bead?
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:14 PM   #30
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It was the broken duckhead from NTB it turns out haha
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:28 AM   #31
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I'm pretty sure you took your wheels and tires to a woefully unqualified shop. I took all 4 of my factory tires off my 2016 3791RD in my back yard with a manual device, some sweat equity and patience. Maybe your "typical" American shop was staffed by non Americans.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:57 AM   #32
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I changed mine out to Sailuns and had no issue's. I spent 35 yrs in tire industry and never experienced damaging wheels to remove tires. Did they use rim clamp machine or old style Coates 20-20?
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:36 AM   #33
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Should have taken them to an RV dealer in the first place. They have the correct tools and knowledge
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:40 AM   #34
cookinwitdiesel
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I went to camping world first, their equipment was broken.
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Old 06-27-2019, 01:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel View Post
I got a set of Sailun S637 STs for my trailer and took them and the oem wheels with Westlakes installed to a shop to get them swapped. The shop works on commercial trucks and stuff, so no stranger to higher pressure, heavier duty tires and wheels. Apparently they spent hours on it yesterday and could not get the Westlakes off of the Lynx Aluminum rims without damaging the rims. They only took off one tire then stopped because they didn't want to tear up the whole set. I went in this morning to see what is up and talk about options.

They started out with the usual: cheap Chinese tires, low quality, blah blah blah that you would expect to hear from an American mechanics shop. Allegedly the problem is that the (cheap Chinese) rubber is too stiff on the tire bead and they could not work it around the rim - the tire was tougher than the aluminum and the rim suffered as a result. They of course claim that the American made Goodyear G614s don't have this problem.

They are remounting the one tire they removed and I will leave the Westlakes on for the time being - when I go back tonight they will present their solution to compensate me for the rim they damaged. The rim damage is purely aesthetic, nothing structurally compromised, just a bummer. Picture attached.

Has anyone else come across anything remotely resembling this problem? Are these guys just subpar? This was the shop that the local CampingWorld sent me too since their tire stuff was broken or something like that. I know a ton of people use the Sailuns happily, and had to get the Westlakes off in order to install them - I am curious to hear what others experienced.

Thanks!

A couple of potential issues: Terminology is important.


Was the initial problem that they could not "DE-Seat" the beads of the tire from the wheel? or They did d-seat the beads but had difficulty in de-mounting the tire from the wheel.


Hard De-seating can be caused by improper shape or placement of the "safety hump" on the wheel. Modern mounting machines can generate enough force to actually break the tire bead wire when doing a de-seat.
If the tire has a "tight" or OOT small bead bundle that usually shows up in high seating pressure. Since you didn't notice that I would think the tire bead is not the problem.



Hard de-mounting can be caused by shallow or improper offset of the 'Well" of a wheel. Some wheels even have the well off center to the back side which makes things difficult. This is IMO just bad wheel design where "looks" are considered more important than proper and safe function.


There are specs and special tools for measuring wheels. The bad news is that outside tire R&D departments, I don't know where you can get your hands on any of the specialized tools to check the measurements.


The few times I ran into these issues in my 40-year career, it was with wheels made by smaller companies that do not have engineers who understand the importance of these specifications.


Bottom line I suspect the wheel .
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Old 06-27-2019, 05:32 PM   #36
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I started busting tires the hard way when I was 10 years old. Fixing flats on tube type tires, 3 piece wheels and farm tractor tires. Dad hardly ever took a tire to town to be fixed.
Worked 40 years in the car, truck and ag industry doing it all. Weekends helping buddies mount new meats on their lifted trucks. From wheelbarrow to earthmovers I never met a tire and wheel combination that defeated me.

A lot of tire shop managers are just managers with limited practical experience. The guys busting tires have maybe one year or less and turnover is fast.

Their are two types of tire lube; the liquid soap and the gooey rubber grease type. Knowing when and how much to use will make a job go real easy. If they are breaking the duck bill then they sure as heck don't have a clue how to use the machine and to lube that bead coming off. On a rim clamp tire machine there is and adjustment to keep the duck bill from ever contacting the rim.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:25 PM   #37
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It seems that the issue was de-mounting the tire from the rim, NOT de-seating the bead. It also seems the issue was the people at that first shop not being prepared to deal with an aluminum rim in such a stiff tire (not to say it couldn't be done, they just lacked the skill/experience needed).

Through all of this, I learned to be more choosey about my tire shops and now am armed with the right questions to ask up front.
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