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Old 12-04-2019, 09:01 PM   #1
Twisties
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Cougar 315RLS

Going to take a look at the 315RLS tomorrow. If it follows us home it will be our 1st ever RV. Any thoughts?

Also, we have a choice between:

1. A new 2019 advertised for $44,995 468 miles from home. No extra fees beyond the travel permit to bring it home to Oregon. The dealer says they have a nationwide lifetime warranty on mechanical things included, or

2. A new 2020 advertised for $49,888 103 miles away. This dealer says they include going through it, some credit towards hoses, etc, and a class on operating it. No additional fees beyond registration and tax. I think he has some room in his price.... Thinking maybe around $48000.

Is a 2020 worth $3k more than a 2019?
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:23 PM   #2
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Congrats on getting one at least. The one thing that I question is you should ask the dealership in your area because I was told the same thing but when I need some warranty work I went to my local area they told me they only service if I had bought from them.

So I had to take it to where I bought it from to get warranty work done to it. I live in Washington State and I bought my 5th wheel in Bend, OR, which wasn't too bad of a drive.

I would look at the one close by to you because dealer all they know is sale you something and that's it.I would try to go with the 2020 and see if they can come down a little. Oh yeah don't forget to do a good walk through of everything, run the water, turn on the lights and etc. Let us know what you finally went with.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:39 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Twisties View Post
Going to take a look at the 315RLS tomorrow. If it follows us home it will be our 1st ever RV. Any thoughts?

Also, we have a choice between:

1. A new 2019 advertised for $44,995 468 miles from home. No extra fees beyond the travel permit to bring it home to Oregon. The dealer says they have a nationwide lifetime warranty on mechanical things included, or

2. A new 2020 advertised for $49,888 103 miles away. This dealer says they include going through it, some credit towards hoses, etc, and a class on operating it. No additional fees beyond registration and tax. I think he has some room in his price.... Thinking maybe around $48000.

Is a 2020 worth $3k more than a 2019?
I think you've been "misinformed" to be polite. First what are "mechanical things"? Unlike a car or truck, the dealer does NOT have to honor the warranty if you didn't buy it from them as far as Keystone is concerned. You can check your state laws where you reside but if the state "requires" it
I'll be willing to bet you would be without your camper for months waiting on service.

The second dealer's "class on operating" is called a PDI (pre delivery inspection) and EVERY dealer should do it. There is an excellent PDI file available on the forum. I suggest you print it off, read it, and take it with you. Search the forum for PDI and you will have plenty to read.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:59 AM   #4
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Class on operating it is most likely an additional charge. As stated, dealers don’t have to do warranty work on a unit they didn’t sell. Permit fee to get it into your state? Lifetime warranty sounds like the “forever” warranty that requires annual inspections that..you guessed it, are done for a fee.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:51 AM   #5
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Seriously, the manufacturer's warranty is not nationwide? Only at the selling dealer?

Thanks!
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:16 AM   #6
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Seriously, the manufacturer's warranty is not nationwide? Only at the selling dealer?

Thanks!

The warranty is nationwide but unlike car dealers RV dealers don’t have to work on your rig if you didn’t buy it there. Some won’t even talk to you. I had the happen here in MD. If they do take it they will normally it you behind their customers in the que.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:25 AM   #7
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We have a 2019 model and we love it.

As far as I know the 2020 has the following changes:
- Windows across from bathroom is gone
- Bathroom door is now pocket door
- Tub surround is different
- Shower doors are clear
- Theater seating now has light, heat and massage feature
- New lock on door is not widely used and you cannot get a keyless model

Warranty should be same on both...
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:47 AM   #8
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The warranty is nationwide but unlike car dealers RV dealers don’t have to work on your rig if you didn’t buy it there. Some won’t even talk to you. I had the happen here in MD. If they do take it they will normally it you behind their customers in the que.
Hmmmm..... with cars, trucks and motorcycles the service department is the major profit center of a dealership, I thought. Do RV manufacturers not pay the dealers enough for them to be wanting to do the work? We had problems recently with our towing plan. When a service provider finally did show up some 18 hours after the initial call he said that the reimbursement rate was below his cost, and a lot of tow co's just won't take plans anymore...
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:43 AM   #9
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Hmmmm..... with cars, trucks and motorcycles the service department is the major profit center of a dealership, I thought. Do RV manufacturers not pay the dealers enough for them to be wanting to do the work? We had problems recently with our towing plan. When a service provider finally did show up some 18 hours after the initial call he said that the reimbursement rate was below his cost, and a lot of tow co's just won't take plans anymore...


Above is the reason a non selling dealer does not want to do warranty work on your RV. If I recall the reimbursement for warranty work is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2 the going labor rate so it is not a "profit center" for the dealer therefore if they aren't obligated due to the sale they very well may deny working on your unit.

The forever warranty, from everything I've seen, is "free" up front but costs you lots of $$ over time due to required mtce. schedules you have to keep in order for the warranty to cover anything. Even then, you need to read the fine print to see what exactly is included....it might be nothing of worth.

As was mentioned, see what the changes were from 2019 to 2020. There may be some things you don't like such as regular door to pocket door (I don't like them particularly).

Dealers can make or break your RV ownership. Know who it is you are doing business with and their reputation. As far as the orientation class, that is probably the "pre delivery inspection" where you see what everything is and how it works and should be, IMO, mandatory for any dealership that sells a unit. I just looked at new RVs at a dealership several days ago that includes a 4 hour orientation with any unit sold...no charge. I am a believer in buying local if possible and that really holds true for an RV. The ability to access them can really be a positive in the right circumstance and worth a lot.

Keytone lists an msrp for the 315rls at 58007 so I'm thinking you still have wiggle room from the 48k price you were thinking. I will say that since Keystone has started posting the msrp (used to they didn't), it has gotten closer than the old "put anything you want to on it for the msrp" which lead to some wild fluctuations. Work for the bottom dollar the nearest dealer will give you and use the figures given to you for the 2019. Once the bottom line is acceptable then tell them you want the little "freebies" thrown in. All of them won't be much off their bottom line unless you throw in the 5th wheel hitch, then you need to take that into consideration.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:50 AM   #10
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FBOW, we are not planning on being near here... Our house is for sale and we are planning on full timing it in the RV in the CO, AZ, and NM area, plus maybe a jaunt to AK and or Newfoundland in the summer. We are buying here so we can pack and get to know the unit before the our closing date, January 9. We have a 50 amp pad at home that we've never used... so we figure we should get to use it before we go. :-)

So, I guess we will be dependent on other dealers for work....
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:29 AM   #11
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are you buying it at river city RV? in Grants Pass?
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:23 AM   #12
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We went with the 30RLS. It had been on our list to see and we really liked it.
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:42 AM   #13
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Warranty work: rates and times are set by the factory. It’s an uphill battle to even get “ book rate” and without lots of pictures your NOT going to get any thing over that. Labor rates are negotiated yearly and the average is about $100.00/hr. Overhead eats that up in a hurry. If a component failed often times the factory wants it back. If it works for them the entire claim is denied and shipping charges are the dealers responsibility. Failure to send part will also cause no pay. To make matters worse, if there are multiple “lines” on the claim, factory will hold entire claim while waiting for part.
Money is in customer pay.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:08 PM   #14
Twisties
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are you buying it at river city RV? in Grants Pass?
Yes we are.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:20 PM   #15
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But one thing that I did, when I did needed warranty work on my old 5th wheel I took it to Camping World, they were going to do my warranty work, lol.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:35 AM   #16
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But one thing that I did, when I did needed warranty work on my old 5th wheel I took it to Camping World, they were going to do my warranty work, lol.
I'm on a 2-3 different forums & you have to be the 1st on any of them to recommend CW for any type of service work, warranty or otherwise. Most suggest avoiding them like the plague. They are highly recommended for the sales department, but no one ever recommends the service department & from my experience would have to agree.
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Old 12-07-2019, 09:57 AM   #17
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We purchased our last RV from Camping World and did get a good buy. They are horrible on service work, it sat there for 3 months for minor issues and then they never did the work.

I bought my 2019 Cougar 361rlw that listed for 67,000 and bought it for 40,999 and drove to Indiana. The warranty period is not that long and in the past, it has been only minor repairs. I saved 1,000's of dollars which help make up for the fast depreciation after buying it. If a lot goes wrong or something costly, the worst-case scenario would be to drive it all the way back to the Indiana dealer.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:18 AM   #18
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I'm on a 2-3 different forums & you have to be the 1st on any of them to recommend CW for any type of service work, warranty or otherwise. Most suggest avoiding them like the plague. They are highly recommended for the sales department, but no one ever recommends the service department & from my experience would have to agree.

I belong to multiple forums as well and I have seen positive comments about CW at times along with the negative ones. I would be one that would view them in a positive light, but...…

Over the years I have modified my thinking on how to approach not only warranty work but just any work done at an RV dealership based on some simple truths:

>When you take the unit in for repair do so knowing that it will come out with something broken that was never meant to be touched, so, be prepared to find it before you take it home.

>Know that whoever worked on your RV probably went to work for that dealership 6 mos. ago from Burger King and doesn't know a fork from a socket.

>Turnover rates are astronomical at most dealerships leading to the above. Just before I left I visited with the SM at my CW and he said he had 55 service techs and less than a handful had more than 5 years of service.

>Get to know your dealership management team; you will be thankful you did because you will need them. Establish a good one on one relationship and it will pay off. Example: On the first day out headed to FL (about 55 miles from home) had a blowout that shredded the underside, cut propane line etc. Called the SM from the side of the road just as we were heading back and told me to bring it straight to him and they would clear a bay and get me going. Took it in to replace 5 tires, replace coroplast and various other repairs. 2 days later called and said it was ready to go and I picked it up when they opened on the 3rd. day and drove off; didn't pay a penny - they knew I was in a hurry and said we would settle up when I returned.

Those are some of the intangibles that require some mindset modification so that you can accept some of the things that will invariably happen and not keep you in a tizzy or keep you at a semi boiling point as I stayed for years. It is against my nature to do, or accept, the above but I decided I would rather change and accept it vs die of a heart attack over something I can't fix.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:26 AM   #19
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We purchased our last RV from Camping World and did get a good buy. They are horrible on service work, it sat there for 3 months for minor issues and then they never did the work.

I bought my 2019 Cougar 361rlw that listed for 67,000 and bought it for 40,999 and drove to Indiana. The warranty period is not that long and in the past, it has been only minor repairs. I saved 1,000's of dollars which help make up for the fast depreciation after buying it. If a lot goes wrong or something costly, the worst-case scenario would be to drive it all the way back to the Indiana dealer.
There is an independent Truck and RV dealer close to where I live. They do not sell RV's or do warranty work. They are excellent and I hope that there are other shops as good around the country.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:37 AM   #20
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Danny: that may a bit harsh on some of us techs
While I am not going to defend or argue that what you say may well be the norm in the Larger high volume dealerships, It definitely doesn't apply to all of us.

OP: do your due diligence BEFORE you commit to a purchase and that includes a trip to the service side, look around and ask questions.

Danny: finding and keeping a decent tech is like pulling hens teeth. The pay is lousy and if your unlucky enough to work in a flat rate shop, your quality is going to suffer to make book times, BTDT.

I know your post wasn't directed at me, and I take NO OFFENSE to it as you speak more truth than fiction. Stay dry and warm, its pouring here.
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