Heat/AC failure in rigs with inCommand

LHaven · 02-10-2019, 11:26 AM

We just went through a bit of an exercise with our new 26RBSWE to get a manufacturing defect fixed. If your rig has an inCommand system and you're experiencing problems where your furnace or AC goes through periods of refusing to function, it may help you to read this. The tough part was getting three vendors on the same page so that they all realized that they had already seen this problem reported by many owners and that they had a fix for it.

When we took our unit home last fall, we immediately experienced a failure of the air conditioner to turn on (uncomfortable, since the temps were 100°+). The dealer didn't take me seriously, blaming it on my 30A receptacle. A week or so later, the problem disappeared all by itself, so I let it slide.

Come December, and now the furnace refuses to turn on… but only at night.

Through experimentation, I determined that when the temperature inside the rig (we weren't occupying it) went above 100° or so, the AC would not turn on; and when it went below 50° or so, the furnace would not turn on… bizarre, but technically plausible.

The dealer flat out told me he would have no idea how to even start troubleshooting a problem like that. I understood his position, but I needed it fixed.

Figuring it was a control logic failure, I called the ASA (inCommand) folks, who kicked the ball around the infield a couple of times, then told me they'd seen this sort of thing caused by the manufacturer-supplied HVAC controller they had to interface with. Keystone had no idea what to recommend except for me to take it in to a dealer (I told them the dealer had already thrown up their hands). Finally, I spoke to a different person at ASA, who told me quite definitely that they had worked this exact problem before, many people had experienced it, they knew the cause for sure, it was a particular model of HVAC controller from Dometic, and they gave me the name of the Keystone employee they had worked it with. Armed with all that information, I was able to get Keystone to tell me they had a service bulletin out on the problem, the fix was to replace the controller with a different model, and they would send my dealer the information he needed to perform it. We had the fix applied three days ago.

Unfortunately, the fix was incomplete. Last night, the ambient was 47°, and when I tried to turn the furnace on, the control panel showed "on" for about five seconds, then flipped back to "off" without turning on the furnace (acknowledging the failure and flipping off was new behavior, but still a failure). It did the same thing for the fan. However, when I used the iPhone app to turn the furnace on, it went on successfully (very strange!). Once the furnace was on, the control panel now could not turn it off (same behavior, flipped back after five seconds), but the iPhone could. Now, all these control signals go through the inCommand module, and some work and some don't, so I kicked this back to the folks at ASA and I'm waiting for a reply.

I wanted to put this out there for anybody who is seeing the same behavior (and if you're not seeing it yet, and you're still under warranty, you may want to see if your unit has this fault so you can get it fixed before it's a problem).

MarkEHansen · 02-10-2019, 03:17 PM

I talked to my dealer about replacing the Dometic board in our rig (same as yours). They said they would have to see the problem before they could do anything about it.

I was getting frustrated with them when the general manager walked over and said "well ... we'll just run the air conditioner overnight to get it good and cold inside the cabin and then try the heat..."

They still have the camper (waiting on one or two of the warranty items on our list to be completed) but I was told the iN-Command/Dometic issue was one of those they've resolved.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

**JRTJH** · 02-10-2019, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

...

but I was told the iN-Command/Dometic issue was one of those they've resolved.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Not to wish you any "bad luck" but like when you pick out a new puppy, this is one of those times when you wish you'd have put a dot of red fingernail polish on that Dometic control board..... That way, with a quick glance, you'd know whether the dealer really resolved the issue.....

Hopefully they handled it without any way to verify......

MarkEHansen · 02-10-2019, 03:52 PM

Well, to be honest - I don't think I'm going to be camping in conditions which will trigger this particular defect, so I wasn't all that worried about it.

... at least not the <40 degree issue. Now the >100 degree issue? Hmmm, I could hit that

66joej · 02-10-2019, 03:57 PM

I agree with John on this. Whenever the dealer has a special on servicing I jump on it. Being a bit anal I always take a marker and mark wheels ( rotation included) and oil filter (wipe it off and let it go). Have caught non work a few times. Didn't use the same dealer again. This used to be called "midnight oil change".

LHaven · 02-11-2019, 02:01 AM

The threshold is more like 50°. We're 25 miles outside Phoenix and we get that on winter nights, as well as 100°+ much of the summer.

LHaven · 02-11-2019, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhaven

Unfortunately, the fix was incomplete. Last night, the ambient was 47°, and when I tried to turn the furnace on, the control panel showed "on" for about five seconds, then flipped back to "off" without turning on the furnace (acknowledging the failure and flipping off was new behavior, but still a failure)... I kicked this back to the folks at ASA and I'm waiting for a reply.

False alarm. Turns out the minimum settable temperature for the old gateway was 54°, and for the new gateway, 55°. My thermostat was still set to 54° from long ago, which is now an "invalid" setting for the new gateway, so the control panel hiccuped when I tried to start the furnace. Once I bumped the temp, the furnace worked fine, and the control panel will no longer let it return to 54°. Problem completely solved with the new gateway.

ken56 · 02-13-2019, 06:19 PM

Kudos to you. Its people like you that pursue an issue like this that turns out helping many others. Those that have had the dealer run around know this all too well. Thanks for sharing your experience.

ajk170 · 02-13-2019, 07:19 PM

Ihaven- so if I understand this correctly, the dealer needs to replace the HVAC controller? Since I'm not all that smart on this stuff, is the controller the digital thermostat that hangs on the wall and "controls" the zones or something that's up in the ACs or down in the "In Command" box in the basement?
Thanks!
-Andy

LHaven · 02-17-2019, 10:35 PM

What has to be replaced is the HVAC gateway.It's a discrete box that hangs right in the center of the AC cavity, which you can see with the filter cover removed.

There are serial and model numbers on top where they can't be easily read, but I took a photo of them using my smartphone in selfie mode. It's a Dometic product. The numbers on my original component were marked as part #3313191.000.

When I put my repair through the dealer, there was a delay because the various part and serial numbers I reported weren't part of the range authorized by the original service bulletin, but it was verified that my parts failed the same way, so now I presume they are.

BlueJay Traveler · 05-21-2019, 06:48 PM

I picked up my 26 RBS cougar at the beginning of April 2019. I had it home one week and slept in the unit over the weekend. Temperature was below 40° and furnace had issues the first night. Everything worked fine until 3 AM. That’s when I noticed I had a fuse blown. After replacing the fuse I’ve noticed the AC unit would Click when IN·command was calling on the furnace to ignite. The furnace fan would engage normally but would never attempt to fire. Over the next few hours the furnace would try to ignite and burn for several seconds and then shut off. Over the next few weekends we slept in the camper several times while having the same problems. The furnace would run perfectly for a while and then The in command would attempt to start the furnace, that’s when the AC unit would click several times and the furnace would never attempt to fire. I found that when I would disconnect the power plug in the relay control box and plug it back in the system would reset and the furnace would work for a while. I took the unite to the dealer and they have no idea what is wrong. How can this problem still be happening? Very disappointed

LHaven · 05-21-2019, 06:52 PM

I had this exact same symptom right after the dealer fixed the gateway module problem, and I had to bring it back. It turned out to be construction debris (sawdust and styro chips) fouling the sail switch in the furnace. They had to remove the entire unit and it was a month all told before we got our rig back.

In general, you will be finding a lot of sawdust for the first couple trips. I also had styro waste plugging up the intake screen on my toilet, with the result that I had almost no water flow the entire three weeks of our first trip.

jim1 · 05-22-2019, 09:32 AM

We've had similar issues in our 2019 315 Cougar. Our furnace would quit igniting usually at the best times 2-4:30am. It would try to cycle on but wouldn't light. My fix was to go outside with a flashlight and screw driver, and remove the furnace cover and toggle the power switch on and off till it started to work again. The diagnostic sticker in the furnace cabinet indicated 1flash every 3 seconds was a airflow/limit fault. Took it to the dealer who had it for 2 weeks and couldn't find anything wrong asked them to replace the sail switch or the whole furnace. Called Krapstone and they denied any issues with the furnace. The unit is an inbred cross between Atwood crap and Dometic junk. The dealer put in a new sail switched it's still working. So who knows? I'm just getting very disappointed with paying good money for something that has no quality or backing by Krapstone even under warranty. It seems to me their just hoping to out wait doing anything until the warrenty is done.

daji · 04-04-2021, 06:17 AM

I have a 2019 Fuzion 373 that has a similar problem. I brought in into the dealer after telling them the symptoms. When it is cold out side the heat will not turn on. Nothing happens. It is like In-command does nothing. You can try turning the heat on and off in any of the zones multiple times and the system does nothing. Also noticed the fan won't even turn on. I did notice the In-Command system only reads down to 40 degrees. At first I thought the camper just did not get as cold inside as outside but after paying attention a few times I know that when it is 23 degrees out there is no way the camper is 40 degrees inside because I would feel the deference.

I brought it in after describing the symptoms and letting the dealer know about posts like this and below is what they did.

1)diagnosed furnace, upon testing found that furnace blower will run, and furnace will ignite for approx 10 secs and cut ignition. then repeat. found board is not sensing flame and has failed, board will require replacement. tested igniter as well, removed from furnace and tested continuity. tight area to work to get furnace in and out due to water heater, water pump and plumbing in the way, because of this will take longer to remove and install furnace. 03/24/2021 4:59 PM removed furnace, then removed board and retested on bench, found this did not fix issue, then took mew igniter and retested, furnace worked properly. removed new board and reinstalled old board, furnace still worked properly. installed furnace back in unit and tested for proper operation.

Got the camper back and the heat worked fine when I got it into the driveway (In Command read 46 degrees) . The next morning the heat would not come on. The In Command read 40 degrees and it was 28 degrees out side. Tried multiple times tuning off and on and nothing worked. After turning the electric fireplace heat on for an hour still nothing but In Command still showed 40 degrees. Finally I got a hair dryer and pointed it at the living room temperature sensor. In Command shot up to 44 degrees then 87. The Heat was set for 76 degrees but did not come on. Once in command fell back to 71 degrees reading I turned the heat off and on on the in command system and the heat came on.

I repeated the process the next day and found that the heat would not come on when the In Command reads 40 degrees on the display. Once I got the hair dryer to get the RV in Command sensor up to around 58 degrees, and I turned the heat off and on through the console, the heat came on. Even when the in command went back down to 44 degrees the heat stayed on.

So it looks like there is an issue where the sensor has to tell the In Command system the temperature is above the bottom out reading of 40 degrees on the In Command system for the heat to come on. After having the RV at the dealer for the heat and other issues for almost 5 weeks I will give them this information and bring it back next spring to have it fixed when they preform the annual roof inspection. I still have an extended warranty of another 3 years so it should be covered. At least the hair dryer gives me a work around.

**JRTJH** · 04-04-2021, 06:28 AM

daji,

Your symptoms are a well documented issue with the HVAC control box located in the main air conditioner on your roof. Warming the thermostat above 50 or cooling it to below 100 is the "key" to identifying the control box issue. The manufacturer has changed the control box, updating the electronics in it to reprogram the operation. This has eliminated the issue for nearly everyone who is experiencing symptoms like yours.

You'll likely find problems this summer if the interior temperature in your trailer rises above 100F and the A/C won't turn on to cool your trailer.

Talk to your dealership about changing out the control box and you'll probably have a "troublefree HVAC system"....

MarkEHansen · 04-04-2021, 06:30 AM

Welcome to the forum, Daji!

This is a known problem with iN-Command. I believe there is also an upper temperature, above which the A/C will not come on. Speak to the service manager at your dealership. They should contact Keystone if they really are not aware of the issue. I think there's even a recall for this issue.

They should be able to replace a control board (not sure which one) and be done with it.

Good luck.

LHaven · 04-04-2021, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

They should be able to replace a control board (not sure which one) and be done with it.

It's the Dometic HVAC gateway box, which hangs in the middle of the inside of your AC cavity. Until you can get it replaced, you're going to have to travel with a hairdryer and an ice bag. 2019 is definitely the model year for this particular problem.

LHaven · 01-02-2022, 11:57 AM

So last night, we were expecting the first below-freezing temperatures since I got my rig three years ago. After crawling into bed, I realized I had forgotten to prep the trailer, and inCommand is telling me it's 34° in the rig. So I set the thermostat as low as possible (55°), and turned on the furnace remotely. After ten minutes or so, it became obvious nothing was heating up, so I dressed up and ambled out to the trailer. Turned the furnace on from the display panel. Click from the Dometic gateway box, then... nothing, no pre-heat fan noise, nothing. Did it a few times. Checked the range to make sure the shop hadn't valved off the propane. Finally set up the ceramic heater for the night, turned on the tank heaters, and went back to bed.

Went out to shut it off this morning, it's 65° in the rig. Tried turning the furnace on again to see if I had a furnace problem or the old inCommand problem had come back— worked first time.

So it looks like inCommand is back to its old tricks, despite my already having swapped out that suspect Dometic gateway box.

By 6 PM tonight, it's slated to be under 50°— I'm going out to test the furnace for this failure one more time then (if so) it's back on the horn to ASA.

markcee · 01-02-2022, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHaven

So last night, we were expecting the first below-freezing temperatures since I got my rig three years ago. After crawling into bed, I realized I had forgotten to prep the trailer, and inCommand is telling me it's 34° in the rig. So I set the thermostat as low as possible (55°), and turned on the furnace remotely. After ten minutes or so, it became obvious nothing was heating up, so I dressed up and ambled out to the trailer. Turned the furnace on from the display panel. Click from the Dometic gateway box, then... nothing, no pre-heat fan noise, nothing. Did it a few times. Checked the range to make sure the shop hadn't valved off the propane. Finally set up the ceramic heater for the night, turned on the tank heaters, and went back to bed.

Went out to shut it off this morning, it's 65° in the rig. Tried turning the furnace on again to see if I had a furnace problem or the old inCommand problem had come back— worked first time.

So it looks like inCommand is back to its old tricks, despite my already having swapped out that suspect Dometic gateway box.

By 6 PM tonight, it's slated to be under 50°— I'm going out to test the furnace for this failure one more time then (if so) it's back on the horn to ASA.

Ack...that's too bad......good thing we live where we do. At least, below freezing is not an everyday occurrence. It delayed my tee time by an hour, you had worse to contend with...lol

I am not much of a (even by AZ standards) winter camper, but am curious to see what happens in a couple of weeks when we head to Kartchner Caverns area for a few days. Decent possibility of below freezing so interested to see how InCommand and the Dometic gateway performs.

LHaven · 01-03-2022, 04:27 PM

Update: Last night we weren't expecting freezing temps, but low enough to do some experimentation. As the outdoor and cabin temps dropped, I attempted to start the furnace at 49°, 44°, and 39° (it didn't get much lower than that). Every time, it started flawlessly. So either the new inCommand/Dometic failure temp is between 34° and 39°, or something weird is happening with my furnace.

Anyway, I'm not going to bother with it anymore. I've got my electric heater and electric blanket, and if it is a thermostat-related problem, I've got a working HWH to heat up a facecloth and dupe the thermistor into thinking it's warmer in the cabin long enough to get the furnace cranking.

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