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Old 12-14-2017, 10:30 AM   #1
wiredgeorge
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2018 Super Duty!

https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles...mpaign=content

"F-450 4x2 Crew Cab: 34,000 Pounds of Towing Force"
I NEED AN F-450!!! I ALSO AM BROKE! What to do?
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:05 PM   #2
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I just read that. 450 HP and 935 ft. lbs of torque. MASSIVE!!
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:26 PM   #3
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Where's the "like" button when you need it?
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:51 PM   #4
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Makes my "little" 440 HP and 860 FtLb of torque seem "paultry".... But I'm thinking I'll keep my "first of the second generation" 6.7 and leave the rest of that money in the bank.....

The article posed the question, "Which manufacturer will be the first to break the 1000 foot pound threshold?" They're all close. Now if they'd just get there, then come to their senses and start striving for reasonable HP/torque and start focusing on MPG and economy !!!!!
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:10 PM   #5
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Unfortunately emissions and the horrible waste they cause adversely affects the MPG. As in, to keep the environment clean u have a DPF that goes into Regen mode by dumping excess Diesel fuel. Waste money and reducesbyour MPG. The DEF is also a wallet killer. And I'm sure that Urea is not very safe on its own.

A deleted truck gets better MPG

Also breaking a 1000 is feasible with what we have. It just takes a good tune.
Basically diesel is like gas was in the 80/90's. Trying desperately to meet tight emissions laws, so they had poorly conceived 'fixes'to abide by the tail sniffers and thus a engine like the mighty small block 350 was reduced to under 250HP in the hi-po sports car trimmings.
Seems when diesel Wars for HP/TQ just started to boom before the late 2000's, the tail sniffers started to crack down.
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:56 AM   #6
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Mikz, you lost credence with your "The DEF is also a wallet killer" statement. On average we use about two 2.5 gallon containers every 5000 miles. Less when not towing, more when towing. $13.00 per container makes that a price of about 1/2 cent per mile. Maybe $500 in 100,000. Just oil and filter changes
alone in that same 100K with tire rotation will run better than $4000. Did I miss something?
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:58 AM   #7
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Just another cost. And usage depends on driving situations and mikes. Bought our coach hauler with 142k on their clock. Was used prior for same duty towing a 5er. Initial voyage had to get DEF and at 3k mile later had to do again. Using it as a DD also with stop n go driving.
Maybe the estimated DEF usage is based on Hwy, in-tow and new only? Same reason MPG numbers are always spot-on! (sarcasm) ��
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Makes my "little" 440 HP and 860 FtLb of torque seem "paultry".... But I'm thinking I'll keep my "first of the second generation" 6.7 and leave the rest of that money in the bank.....

The article posed the question, "Which manufacturer will be the first to break the 1000 foot pound threshold?" They're all close. Now if they'd just get there, then come to their senses and start striving for reasonable HP/torque and start focusing on MPG and economy !!!!!
That of course, is the same numbers as my '16 Dually and I've got more than enough oomph to do what I want it to do, so I'll be saving those extra $$$ for other things.........like retirement in a little less than 2 years.
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:22 AM   #9
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Unfortunately emissions and the horrible waste they cause adversely affects the MPG.
Waste? Interesting. I can't argue that if emissions were dropped that we couldn't find improvements in MPG and efficiency. I'm not sure that it's necessarily worth the "rolling coal" impact.

That being said, the entire reason that we have 600+ hp Corvettes that can get 24 mpg on the highway is that vehicle manufacturers have been under increasing pressure for years to bring up power, emissions, and economy. What has really been impacted is the entry cost to the wallet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mikz86ta View Post
As in, to keep the environment clean u have a DPF that goes into Regen mode by dumping excess Diesel fuel. Waste money and reduces our MPG.
True. It does burn more diesel to get the temperatures needed to burn off diesel by-products. That being said, perhaps a MPG hit is worth it if today's diesel engine puts off, say 500% less emissions than a truck of 10 years ago at a lower power rating?

I own a VW Diesel (one of the "cheating" cars). I did the calculation of what it's "actual" output of emissions was based on data from the guys that discovered that VW was cheating. That little 2.0L diesel, which puts down 150hp/240 ft/lbs also pollutes more than my 6.7L 1-ton 350hp/800ft/lbs. There should probably be a happy medium somewhere..

That is, unless you don't believe emissions have any long term environmental impact.


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The DEF is also a wallet killer. And I'm sure that Urea is not very safe on its own.

I don't like having to fill yet "another" fluid either, but it's hardly a wallet killer. The real expensive is adding these systems to the cost of our vehicles.

Look - I remember being younger. I had a 5.0L Ford "High Output" Mustang. You know, the 205 (or 225) hp version. I removed the catalytic converter - well, actually hollowed it out, for more power and efficiency.. I couldn't feel a difference, no mpg difference, maybe it got another 5hp or so. But I could smell a difference at every stoplight. And when it finally did go in for emissions tests years later, it was 10x over "allowed" limits for hydrocarbons. I was polluting as much as 10 non-modified mustangs. I add high flow catalytic converters to all my "old" cars now instead of mufflers..

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A deleted truck gets better MPG
That's true.


Quote:
Basically diesel is like gas was in the 80/90's. Trying desperately to meet tight emissions laws, so they had poorly conceived 'fixes'to abide by the tail sniffers and thus a engine like the mighty small block 350 was reduced to under 250HP in the hi-po sports car trimmings.
I'd say 70s, 80s, and 90s. I'd also point out that in around 1993, V8s started to break into 300hp again, fully emissions compliant, naturally aspirated. In the 2000s, we saw 400hp. My 2004 Corvette was 405 HP. The next generation 'vette was 505 hp - without a turbo or supercharger... Emissions legal, great MPG... Now everything is 400-500hp, with Chevy and Dodge putting out supercharged cars in the 700-800hp range. Factory vehicles.. I'm a car guy, but darn, 600hp is way more than enough...

Why? Forced innovation.
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:01 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=mikz86ta;266673]Unfortunately emissions and the horrible waste they cause adversely affects the MPG. As in, to keep the environment clean u have a DPF that goes into Regen mode by dumping excess Diesel fuel. Waste money and reducesbyour MPG. The DEF is also a wallet killer. And I'm sure that Urea is not very safe on its own.

I am not your typical tree hugging, Birkenstock wearing, Prius driving environmentalist - BUT - I started driving semi's in 1978. Hauled beer out of the old Miller brewery in Azusa, CA (along the foothill freeway). I often wondered why they named I-210 the "foothill freeway" because there were no hills visible. The trucks all belched black smoke at every gear change and whenever they were "put to work" climbing the Grapevine or Cajon Pass.
Today, the mountains (foothills) along I-210 are plainly visible (about 1 mile away) and the trucks don't belch toxic. sulfur smelling particulates into the air we breathe. Proof positive, IMHO, that the smog regulations are working.
I'll gladly dump some DEF in the truck once in a while if the trade off is being able to see the mountains. Just sayin"
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:22 AM   #11
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So am I wrong in thinking that DPF doesn t solve the NOx problem?? Which is why everyone is going/went to SCR??
I'm no diesel expert and understand the challenges of trying to burn fuel at close to stoichiometric rate due to constantly having a full volume of charge air, but you would think that with enough sensor inputs computer could make fuel trim decisions on injector timing to get cleaner/complete burn. Especially as high pressure unit injectors seem to more standard over older scroll type pumps that just built pressure until injector "popped".
What am I missing nerd wise??
Anyways, nice truck. Well out of my price range. Trucks have gotten ridiculous with the "one upping" between torque races, towing races, and wanting to give a Cadillac type experience in the cab it's gone nuts. Mostly frustrating that the only dumbed down interior options you find to bring price down are usually only available as a single cab work type truck.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:05 PM   #12
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Trucks have gotten ridiculous with the "one upping" between torque races, towing races, and wanting to give a Cadillac type experience in the cab it's gone nuts
It's been said that HP sells cars. Maybe torgue sells diesels? To me, it's a marketing ploy above 800ft/lbs when I'm towing a 16k lb trailer... Maybe you'd care if you towed 32k lbs. But it does allow the manufacturer to advertise "most powerful truck on the market" - and that's what they're going after.

Worth mentioning that dodge, last time I checked, was still selling manual-transmission 6.7L diesel trucks, relatively stripped down and limited to 600 ft/lbs on that manual... Even though it has the same motor as the 800 ft/lb automatic.

Whatever it is, diesel trucks are expensive....
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:27 PM   #13
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You can buy a 2018 F350 4x2 DRW crewcab with an 8' bed for an MSRP of $49635. https://shop.ford.com/build/superdut...4W.DRW.XLL.%5D

Currently, many 2017 trucks are advertised with up to $13000 off MSRP. That makes them available for around $36000.

That said, a 2018 F350 Limited sells for well over $90,000. So, I'd suppose someone with a "blank check from daddy's account" might walk in and pay the MSRP.

My point is that you can buy a "work truck" with the same engine/transmission/frame as a "Cadillac truck" for less than half (and in some cases about 1/3) the asking price of that luxury vehicle. So, yes, Dorothy, there are "deals down that rabbit hole"......
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