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Old 12-21-2016, 11:21 PM   #1
kimbashaw
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2013 Alpine 3535 Tire Replacement

I have a 2013 Alpine 3535 with the China bombs. I had a blowout (fortunately at low speed) with very minimal damage. I want to replace all of the tires with something less likely to blowout. The threads I have read seem to recommend an LT tire. Has anyone replaced tires with LT on this model? If so, what size and brand did you purchase? I have the original rims and I am not sure how much more PSI/load range I can handle with them. I would really appreciate some feedback that is specific to this fifth wheel. l
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Old 12-22-2016, 03:38 AM   #2
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We have a Raptor with spec's very close to your Alpine. Sailun s637 tires were the answer for us and many, many other people on this forum. Search the site for Carlisle, Maxims, and....well, there are a number of good'uns out there. We paid $700 for our set, installed with steel stems at Tire King in Florida. Better prices can be had if you shop hard.
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Old 12-22-2016, 05:47 AM   #3
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A couple things you should look at. First, the original rims on your 2013 Alpine are most likely Sendel T03. They are rated for 94 psi, so that is one concern as you step up in tire load rating. The other concern is that the rims are rated for 3580 lbs, that totals 14,320 which sounds like more than enough considering that even if you are maxed out on weight, when you subtract the pin weight, the most you'll have on the wheels is around 12k. However, the rep I spoke to at Sendel told me that he feels the T03 is too light for our RV (the weight specs are the same as yours). He compared it to an aluminum can, when you continue to flex it back and forth, eventually it will rip apart. The wheels on our trailers fall under the same principle and the weak area is where the spoke and hub meet. Some on this forum have already experienced cracks at that point on their T03s. The Sendel rep recommended the T11BM which has ratings of 3960 lbs and 110 psi. I just ordered 4 off of Amazon for $78 each with free shipping.

If you step up in wheel, you open the door to a lot more tire options. I recommend an F or G rated tire. Personally, I haven't bought into the LT tire argument. Most LT tires do not support the weights for our RVs. I did step up to the Carlisle Radial Trail RH with load range F (LRF). You have to go to a 235/85R16, but there is plenty of clearance for them. They are rated for 3960 lbs vs 3520 from the original china bombs.

On our last outing, I picked up a nail and lost one of the tires. I also run a TST 507 TPMS and HIGHLY recommend it! When I went to replace the tire, discount tire ordered in an LRE tire instead of LRF. I had a choice of waiting for another 4 days, or switching to the Hartland ST Radial All Steel LRG rated for 4079 at 95 PSI. I decided to go with the Hartland tire (They gave me the same price I paid for the Carlisle tires back on trade). I don't have much information about these tires so I'm basically going to be the guinea pig. So far they look great on the 5er, very little sidewall flex. We are taking a 5k mile trip in a couple months, that'll be the real test.

I think Alpine (another member on the forum) went to a 17" wheel and a heavier LR tire after he experienced a blow out. He seems to be very happy with his set up as well.

As already mentioned, many on here are very happy with Sailun tires as well. I recommend you step up to a heavier wheel as I have and open up your options to a heavier LR tire. I think in the long run you will be much happier/safer.
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Old 12-22-2016, 06:44 PM   #4
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I use LT tires. Had them on my previous 2, 5th wheels. I've always used Michelin XPS. Never had a problem. Highly recommend them. JMO Thanks
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:08 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sandy43 View Post
I use LT tires. Had them on my previous 2, 5th wheels. I've always used Michelin XPS. Never had a problem. Highly recommend them. JMO Thanks
Do you know that none of the 4 16" sizes of Michelin XPS Ribs qualify for service on your trailer's axles? They don't have enough load capacity.

In the reference below click on the tab that says; "Do I have to replace my present tires with the same size tires?"

http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/hel...#1393412908155
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:08 PM   #6
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After tons of research I contacted a 'tire engineer' in Akron. Never knew there was such a title. Research told me Maxxis or Carlisle. After talking with him Carlisle was my choice. He is a little more:

During a visit to China in April 2015, Van Ormer saw many new lines of ST products, but says he is aware of only one manufacturer that has “truly changed” the technology of the ST tires. That manufacturer is Carlstar Group LLC, formerly CTP Transportation Products and before that, Carlisle Transportation Products. “With the RH (radial) and LH (bias) trailer tires, they beefed up the bead and sidewall packages so that few others can compete quality-wise with them,” Van Ormer says.

http://www.moderntiredealer.com/arti...rying-capacity

LRE were $97 each and LRF were $105 mounted, balanced, installed.
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:02 AM   #7
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Thank you all for responding. I do think I am going to upgrade the rims and tires to accommodate a G. I see some Sailun G's out there that come with rims for around $185 http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com...l-Trailer-Tire
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Do you know that none of the 4 16" sizes of Michelin XPS Ribs qualify for service on your trailer's axles? They don't have enough load capacity.

In the reference below click on the tab that says; "Do I have to replace my present tires with the same size tires?"

http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/hel...#1393412908155
CWtheMan, I'm certainly not going to debate with a senior member, but let me show you what I have and you tell me if I'm correct or not, ok.
My tire: XPS Rib 235/85R16
Load range= 120/116 or 3086/tire.
3086 x 4 = 12,344 lbs.
5th wheel weight as per Cat scales= 14,440 lbs. (loaded)
Hitch (tongue) weight= 2345 lbs. as per Keystone.
14,400 - 2345 = 12,095 lbs.
12,095 divided by 4 = 3024 lbs/tire.
It appears I'm 62 lbs to the good per tire.
They confirmed their is a slight safely factor built in, but they wouldn't tell me what it is, which I can understand.

According to Michelin specialist on support chat, my calculations are correct. Your opinion does mean a lot to me so, what say you?
Thanks, Sandy
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Old 12-24-2016, 04:13 AM   #9
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Sandy, 62 lbs per tire margin sounds good as long as your weight is evenly distributed on all 4 tires. It's not much of a margin when you consider that the load distribution in your RV could be off significantly from one tire to another. I wouldn't be surprised if to find one or two tires carrying a few hundred pounds more than the others. Lets say for argument purposes that your 12,095 is distributed evenly side to side, putting 6047.5 lbs on each side of the trailer. Now lets say that your front to rear axle distribution is 55% to 45%, that puts 3326 lbs on each tire of your 55% axle, over by 240 lbs. In reality, your side to side and front to rear distribution will both vary depending on what you carry, how you load it, and the trailer design itself. How many slides, location of the kitchen vs dinette (big weight difference) and holding tank locations (they're not centered between the axles). That makes your 62 lb margin calculation pretty insignificant. It's impossible to know what your actual weight per wire is without setting a scale under each individual tire. I prefer a little more margin that what you're working with.

Additionally, your tires will degrade. ST tire load carrying capacity (LCC) are stated to degrade around 10% per year by some manufacturers. LT tires don't advertise LCC degradation, but common sense will tell you that it happens. Again, your 62 lb margin becomes pretty insignificant quickly when you think about LCC degradation.

I'm sure CW will point out some things that I'm missing, but those are the two glaring factors that I see.
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:11 AM   #10
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Sandy & Ann, I’ll try to keep this as short as possible.

My posts revolve around what is supposed to happen rather than what others do. They are also laced with DOT regulations and tire industry standards. Being involved with aircraft maintenance for more than 40 years has made me more cautious about safety than a lot of other posters. I also have more than 12 years of experience towing a 38’ Keystone Everest in 48 states and 4 CDN provinces’.

I looked up the specs for your trailer before my last post about it - 15,500# GVWR. So, I know it’s published specs for year model 2012. From those I could make a near accurate guess to it’s axles GAWR capacities ( Minimum 6600# ea). Vehicle manufacturers MUST fit GAWR axles with tires that can always support the full axle rating. They certify that selection on the trailer’s federal certification label, put it on the tire placard and in the vehicle owner’s manual. Tire industry standards will always support the vehicle manufacturer’s Original Equipment (OE) tire’s load capacity. No reputable tire retailer will install replacement tires with less load capacity than the OE tires provide. In my previous post for you I provided a Michelin reference that essentially says the same thing.

Just a note: All LT & ST tires use the load range letter for the tires load capacity. The LRE Michelin's load capacity is 3042# @ 80 PSI For the LT235/85R16E. The load index 120 = 3086# is not applicable. In the 2007 DOT rules package the load index info was allowed to be added to the tire sidewalls of LT & ST tires in the event they would someday become official for those tire designs. It has not happened, yet.
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post

I looked up the specs for your trailer before my last post about it - 15,500# GVWR. So, I know it’s published specs for year model 2012. From those I could make a near accurate guess to it’s axles GAWR capacities ( Minimum 6600# ea). Vehicle manufacturers MUST fit GAWR axles with tires that can always support the full axle rating.
Yep, the Alpine actually uses a 7,000 lb axle, so you're correct with the 6,600 minimum calculation. Since they have a 7k axle, they must use at least an LRE tire with a 3520 lb rating.
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Old 12-24-2016, 12:18 PM   #12
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Thanks guys for the reply's. From the info you've given me, I've learned a lot. I didn't know how complicated this would get, at least for me. I'm all about safety and the last dealer said I would be fine with these tires. All I know for sure is the last several 5vr's had the same type tires and I have never had a problem. The present Alpine has 18K miles and is 5 yrs old. The previous 5vr had 39K miles and was 4 yrs old. At end of next year, I'll get new tires, what kind, not sure, but will take all this info into consideration. Also, my axles are 7K, according to the sticker on them. Anyhow, I really do appreciated the responses I've gotten and the details, which some of it is over my head. Thanks
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Old 12-25-2016, 01:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
Yep, the Alpine actually uses a 7,000 lb axle, so you're correct with the 6,600 minimum calculation. Since they have a 7k axle, they must use at least an LRE tire with a 3520 lb rating.
RV trailers manufactured with 7000# axles using ST235/80R16E tires are complicated. That particular tire size is manufactured with three different load capacities, 3420#, 3500# and 3520#, all at 80 PSI. Two of the well known ST tire manufacturers, Goodyear & Maxxis build that tire with the 3420# load capacity. Without specific documentation all of those tires - by DOT regulation - default to the lowest load capacity. The trailer manufacturer is authorized to set axles to a GAWR value to fit the needs of the trailer. Therefore the certified GAWR values found on the trailer's certification label are the official load capacity values for the installed axles.

Normally when the ST235/80R16E tire is used on 7000# manufactured axles the GAWR for those axles will be set at 6750#. But if the trailer manufacturer wants to bump up the cargo capacity they can go as high as 6840#. The highest I've personally seen is 6800#.

RV trailer manufacturer's are notorious for making mistakes documenting axles for the above situation and numerous recalls have been issued to correct such mistakes.
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:30 AM   #14
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I finally got the fifth wheel out of storage. I had some tragedy in my life and lost my best friend of 42 years, so getting a late start.

I want to purchase the following and am looking to someone to verify these will fit my 2013 Alpine. My reseagrch seems to indicate they will I would like to purchase the 235/85R16 but see they are an inch taller. Will my clearance be OK?

Thanks for any advice

http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com...358016GL66865S



Specifications
Capacity ST235/80R16 4,080 LBS @ 110 PSI
Capcity ST235/85R16 4,400 Lbs @ 110 Psi
Ply Rating 14
Diameter 30.8" / 31.8"
Width 9.3" / 9.3"
Wheel Size 16x6
Capacity 3,960 LBS
Bolt Pattern 8 on 6.5"
Center Bore 4.90"
Offset "0"
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Old 05-29-2017, 12:17 PM   #15
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Sorry for your loss. I don't have an answer on your tires but did read your post.

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Old 05-29-2017, 06:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbashaw View Post
I finally got the fifth wheel out of storage. I had some tragedy in my life and lost my best friend of 42 years, so getting a late start.

I want to purchase the following and am looking to someone to verify these will fit my 2013 Alpine. My reseagrch seems to indicate they will I would like to purchase the 235/85R16 but see they are an inch taller. Will my clearance be OK?

Thanks for any advice

http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com...358016GL66865S



Specifications
Capacity ST235/80R16 4,080 LBS @ 110 PSI
Capcity ST235/85R16 4,400 Lbs @ 110 Psi
Ply Rating 14
Diameter 30.8" / 31.8"
Width 9.3" / 9.3"
Wheel Size 16x6
Capacity 3,960 LBS
Bolt Pattern 8 on 6.5"
Center Bore 4.90"
Offset "0"
Does your trailer owner's manual provide for a provision to install optional tires?

All steel cased 235/85R16 tires of any load capacity require a minimum rim width of 6.5".

IMO Keystone provides an upgraded wheel to accommodate a higher load capacity polyester cased tire such as the ST235/85R16F which is rated at 3960# @ 95 psi.

It's a tire industry safety violation to fit tires to a wheel with a rim width smaller than the minimum requirement.

The following picture is from a sidewall of a ST235/85R16G steel cased tire. Their manufacturer's are serious about rim width.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=29709
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:07 AM   #17
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I've been running 235/85R16s on my Alpine for 2 years without any problems. Keep in mind that the 1" taller tire is only .5" taller on the top side so your clearance is only reduced by .5 inches. Your clearance should be similar to mine, but obviously with two different trailers the clearance could be different.

As for the rim width, CW is correct about the recommended width of 6.5 inches. We had this discussion in depth on another thread a while back and one member contacted a tire manufacturer for the LRG tires he was considering. The manufacturer for that particular tire told him 6-7" wheels were acceptable for their tire. I have Hartland LRG tires mounted on my 6" wheels, Discount Tire verified it was an acceptable combination as well. The big thing to consider is the psi rating. You 5er most likely has Sendel T03 wheels. They are only rated for 95 psi. I spoke to the rep at Sendel a while back and he recommended that we have heavier wheels on these 5ers. I have upgraded mine to the T11BM. They are rated for 110 psi and 3960 lbs.

http://sendelwheel.com/wheels/t11bm-0.html
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:20 AM   #18
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In case you haven't checked out my thread. Everything you need:

http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=28793

If you want Sendel wheels, model T11 is correct. I was looking to buy the T08 and couldn't find any. Turns out they are discontinued and replaced by the T11. Unfortunately Sendel didn't return my e-mail until 2 weeks after I had to make the purchase and ordered the HiSpec wheels.
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Old 06-03-2017, 06:51 AM   #19
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Pulled the trigger and purchased 5 Sailun S637 ST235/85R16 tires and wheels from http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/ I paid $$290 per tire delivered. They are one inch taller than the originals but Walmart mounted them and plenty of clearance. These hopfully give me many thousand miles of worry free pulling.
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