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Old 10-17-2019, 07:50 PM   #1
Rory
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I think I got bad towing advice

Hello all. I am new here and to the whole trailer towing thing. I purchased a used 2007 28rsds and was told an Armada would tow it just fine though the trailer would be on the heavy side at 5900lbs. I bought a used 2005 armada and after it over heated found out it does not have the tow package 🤦*♂️ . So the question is-what should I tow it with? Looking used SUV. Family of 5 but often have other passengers so a truck will not work. Been looking at the 2013 Yukon Denali, 2013 Infiniti QX56 (with tow package of course).
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:11 PM   #2
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Post GVWR from the manufacturer tag on the front drivers corner of the RV & the yellow sticker from the drivers door of both vehicles so that we aren't guessing when giving advice.
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Old 10-17-2019, 08:18 PM   #3
sourdough
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The trailer gvw is 7600 lbs. not 5900. Max tow of the Armada is 6500 to MAYBE 9000 depending on your towing package (which you don't have), AND that means nothing in the towing spectrum. What is the payload listed for YOUR truck inside the driver door?

The trailer is 31' in length. Wheel base of the Armada is 123". It is not equipped to handle the weight of the trailer you have. It is rated to TOW much more but again that number is meaningless in the real world. It is how much it can "carry" (support) that means everything. Your wheelbase will make towing not only unpleasant but dangerous. With a family of 5, or more, that is ill advised.

Tow vehicles (trucks) are just that; family SUVs meant for grocery getting and comfort are just that - the twain shall never meet.

You have picked a pretty large travel trailer with a substantial weight. Combine that with a family of 5, other passengers and all the the gear, toys and equipment they will want to carry....I don't know of an SUV that can accomplish that safely. I don't think you will find an SUV that has the payload to carry all of what you want AND the trailer. I have seen some posts of folks with 3500 class vans that might work but for me......nada.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:33 PM   #4
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Look at expedition, excursion, and suburban. Those are going to be the best suited SUV’s. Excursion is on a super duty platform and you can get a 2500 suburban.
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:45 AM   #5
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OK, when I looked it up the specs on the 2007 28rsds were a dry weight of 5270. So what Danny is talking about is the GVW. That is what you are actually towing when you are hooked up and full of stuff, which with a family of five you will do easily. Easily. I agree that you should be looking for a used Excursion. People know what they have though and value them highly. A 2500 Suburban, if you can find one, is also in the picture. Good luck. But even with a tow package the Armada just has too short of a wheel base to be comfortable with. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear but hope it helps in your decision.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:46 AM   #6
flybouy
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"was told an Armada would tow it just fine"
The only thing the dealer is concerned about are 2 "clearance" issues.
1. Will your check "clear" at the bank
2. Can you tow it "clear" out of their lot

This is an all too often heard scenario that's constantly repeated. The previously recommended Ford Excursion and Suburban 2500 are going to be
difficult to find (limited numbers made and folks hold on to them),
expensive (same reasons as difficult to find),
will get poor fuel mileage (era of vehicles with limited transmission gearing, wear)
require extra available monies for repairs and maintenance (older, high mileage vehicles will be more susceptible to rust, wear, and abuse)
Reading the years of trailer and tow vehicle that you purchased I'm guessing a new tow vehicle is not an option. Not trying to be a "Debbie downer" but would hate to see anyone get deeper in by a poor purchase again if you aren't really knowledgeable about what you're considering. Another consideration in my thinking is starting out with such a large trailer and being "new to the whole trailer towing thing".
Have you considered selling or trading the newly acquired trailer in on something more appropriate for your tow vehicle restrictions and experience? There are several large pop-up trailers and hybrids that may serve your needs.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:01 AM   #7
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The stickers for what I have

Thanks for all the responses. I am looking for honest feedback even if I shed a tear or two. I have attached the stickers for the Armada and the Trailer. I of course want to be safe and if I do make a change I really would like to make the correct decision this time. Switching one or the other or both is an option. I do not think my wife would drive an excursion.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf car and trailer stickers.pdf (122.7 KB, 486 views)
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:15 AM   #8
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I think one or the other is in order. Without scale weights figure 13% of the trailer gvw (7760 indicated on sticker for your trailer) for your tongue weight = 1009 lbs. vs a payload for the Armada of 1344 lbs. That leaves 335 lbs. for all the passengers, gear, toys etc. in the Armada. With a family of 5 won't happen. Plus, you still have the issue of the short wheelbase TV vs the long trailer - just not a good combo especially without any kind towing pkg. which has already apparently led to overheating problems.

With the above issues, and the indication that the Armada is not up to the task of towing, I would be for getting a different TV. The problem there is the size of the TV required if you don't get a truck. If DW won't drive an Excursion I'm sure she won't want to drive a 3500 class van either. And from experience, I can tell you that driving a van can be rather disconcerting; especially in parking lots and tight quarters. Then it's back to getting a different trailer but I suspect the Armada is going to give you problems no matter what you put behind it.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #9
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3 in back and 2 in front. I think a 2500 HD crew cab would be your best bet.
Cheaper and easier to find than a 2500 Suburban.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by linux3 View Post
3 in back and 2 in front. I think a 2500 HD crew cab would be your best bet.
Cheaper and easier to find than a 2500 Suburban.
I agree, a "properly sized crew cab truck" will provide the cargo/passenger/trailer tongue weight capacity as well as the wheelbase length to adequately control trailer sway while towing.

By "properly sized" with a growing family, the amount of cargo and the weight of passengers will continually increase, so starting with a "half ton truck" will put you in the same situation of "undersized tow vehicle" within a year or two. Start with a vehicle your family can "grow into" not "outgrow".....

As for "we sometimes have more than 5 people that go with us" you might consider two vehicles for those times. Maybe they can "follow in the Armada"....
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:43 AM   #11
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Changes are in store.

Thanks all. Sounds like if we want to stay with a 1/2 ton something or other we need to change the trailer to something that weighs less. Does it then need to be smaller then 28'? Also, sounds like I need to make sure the SUV has the tow package.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:13 AM   #12
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In my opinion if you're considering a 1/2 ton quad cab pick up with a "heavy duty tow package" than I wouldn't recommend over 28', a 1/2 SUV not over 24'. I've BTDT with a SUV, a 1/2 ton PU, and while you "might" be within weights the sail area of a larger/longer trailer can create a "hand full" at best to down right dangerous at worst during crosswind conditions.
Now that I've opened that can of worms all the F150 guys and some others that "drink the kool-aid" of the commercials will chime in and tell you you'll be fine.
I think you've received some very sound advice from people with many years experience.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:24 AM   #13
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I towed a 30 ft trailer, 2910bh loaded for five years with a Chevy 1500. It was working Hard and you knew the trailer was there. Upgraded to a Che y 2500 diesel and hardly known the trailer was there. Very different and safer experience will never go back crew can will handle five friendly adults. If more a nother vehicle solves the problem our trailer is about like yours. Upgrade the two vehicle
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
In my opinion if you're considering a 1/2 ton quad cab pick up with a "heavy duty tow package" than I wouldn't recommend over 28', a 1/2 SUV not over 24'. I've BTDT with a SUV, a 1/2 ton PU, and while you "might" be within weights the sail area of a larger/longer trailer can create a "hand full" at best to down right dangerous at worst during crosswind conditions.
Now that I've opened that can of worms all the F150 guys and some others that "drink the kool-aid" of the commercials will chime in and tell you you'll be fine.
I think you've received some very sound advice from people with many years experience.
Not a Ford guy, but tow a longer trailer that is 8,200 lbs loaded with a GM half ton with the max trailering package (~2000 lbs payload). I like the setup, but it does take a better hitch, like the Equal-i-zer 4 point. I would not tow more than this but, except for slowing down more on hills, it does pretty much everything my 2001 GMC 2500 Duramax did.

Not to say I wouldn't be better served with a 3/4 ton, but I would not go for a 3/4 ton diesel (same or less payload than my truck), and not a fan of the mpg of the GM 6.0L for when I'm not towing.

If I towed more I'd look at a 3/4 ton gas or a 1 ton diesel. In fact I'm looking at them, more because I want a bigger trailer.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:04 PM   #15
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If you're reading to a crew cab truck, skip the 1/2 & 3/4 ton go straight to the 1 ton, preferably diesel, but gas can work, this way you're good to go. Not much difference in cost, ride or fuel mileage between the half & 3/4 ton.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:14 PM   #16
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If you're reading to a crew cab truck, skip the 1/2 & 3/4 ton go straight to the 1 ton, preferably diesel, but gas can work, this way you're good to go. Not much difference in cost, ride or fuel mileage between the half & 3/4 ton.
This is the best advice on here. Ask me how I know I had a 1/2 ton, went to a 3/4 ton diesel, now a 1 ton diesel. I could of saved myself a lot of money and headache, not to mention the debates with the DW.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:19 AM   #17
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Trucks and trailers are expensive. Seems like the OP (Rory) was comfortable with the Armada and anything bigger might be more than his wife/family wants to drive day-to-day. Which puts it back on the trailer. And a 28 ft trailer is just too long for that vehicle. (And isn't it more like 31'?) I would guess (and that is what it is on my part, a guess) that 21'-24' would be max length and that should get the weight down too? Wouldn't that be a cheaper route to take than getting a 1 ton, and then getting DW comfortable with driving it around getting groceries? Either way Rory it looks like you are about to take a bath with the whole RVing experience. There are some nice TTs that have the slide outs on the ends, making them longer after set up but shorter during towing and because the slide outs are in essence tents, the weight is very much reduced. I even stayed in one floor plan that had a side slide out too making more room after set up than you could imagine, more than enough for a family of five and even a guest camper of one of the kids. You would also find out if your family is going to be happy Rving without spending all the money up-sizing your truck.
Truly wishing you good luck whichever way you go.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:54 AM   #18
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If we just look at his cargo capacity, I am truly amazed. 1340# on an Armada? LHM, we have a Chrysler mini-van and that cargo capacity is 1400# and it didn't even come with a trailer hitch (as well it shouldn't )
I realize this is somewhat a defeatist attitude, But I see no way under the sun of fitting this Armada into a suitable equation.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:58 AM   #19
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^^^ What Jim said.....

Realistically, a family of 5 (with teen children) will weigh in like this:

Dad 200
Mom 140
Kids 100x3= 300

"The naked family will take up around 640 pounds of that 1340 payload. Add clothing, snacks, activity supplies while towing and it will be closer to 800 pounds "for the family". That leaves 540 pounds for the trailer tongue and the hitch. Since the OP stated that the Armada DID NOT come with the "expected towing package" I'd suspect that it also didn't come with the receiver. That means not only will the payload be reduced by the weight of the family, trailer tongue and hitch (remember a trailer that long is going to need EFFECTIVE sway control (not a HF WD hitch), and now add in the weight of the receiver to the mix.

This means he's looking at the following:

Family 800
Receiver 100
Hitch 125
That's 1025 already and the trailer tongue is NOT included....

So, with a payload of 1345 and the "absolute necessary items" weighing in at 1025, that leaves 320 pounds for the trailer tongue. That is, provided the OP doesn't need to carry an ice chest or a tool box or a suitcase or add a map or running boards or floor mats to his Armada......

Most trailers equipped to provide accommodations for 5 people will have a "loaded, ready to travel" tongue weight in the 450-1000 pound range. That's 450 for a "pop-up tent camper" and 1000 for a 31' hardwall "X-Lite" travel trailer.

As Jim said, "I see no way under the sun of fitting this Armada into a suitable equation."
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Shepherd Guy View Post
Trucks and trailers are expensive. Seems like the OP (Rory) was comfortable with the Armada and anything bigger might be more than his wife/family wants to drive day-to-day. Which puts it back on the trailer. And a 28 ft trailer is just too long for that vehicle. (And isn't it more like 31'?) I would guess (and that is what it is on my part, a guess) that 21'-24' would be max length and that should get the weight down too? Wouldn't that be a cheaper route to take than getting a 1 ton, and then getting DW comfortable with driving it around getting groceries? Either way Rory it looks like you are about to take a bath with the whole RVing experience. There are some nice TTs that have the slide outs on the ends, making them longer after set up but shorter during towing and because the slide outs are in essence tents, the weight is very much reduced. I even stayed in one floor plan that had a side slide out too making more room after set up than you could imagine, more than enough for a family of five and even a guest camper of one of the kids. You would also find out if your family is going to be happy Rving without spending all the money up-sizing your truck.
Truly wishing you good luck whichever way you go.
A short bed crew cab 1 ton truck isn't that much longer than the Armada to be difficult to drive/park.
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