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Old 07-13-2018, 10:33 PM   #1
twvette
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Fuzion 420 Air Conditioner ... duct layout/fixes/improvements

Been reading the AC posts for a while now and decided to take the deep dive into mine. It seems like a mess to me in general and found some big issues! Not happy !!!

Here is the duct layout on my 2016 two AC unit with one AC in garage and other in bedroom up front. Not sure they did all of these the same but it is how mine was done. I removed the vents and used a tape measure to see where they all went once an for all:
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- the divider in both units keeps falling as just wedged in there so will tape it up to stay
- several vent locations have poor tape seal
- one vent in kitchen the tape was not sealing at all from the roof panel
- The other vent in kitchen is destroyed just above the sink. Can tell it was never right. The hole is off by about 2 inches to mate with the duct. Worse, the duct is ripped for a couple feet in both directions. Lots of wires under duct so wonder if they ripped it pulling wires. Could tell by the tape it was destroyed at factory and just tried to make it look normal rather than fix.
- Not sure why they tried to tie one AC to the other AC on one duct for one of the runs as seems they might fight each other.
- The duct that runs thru the kitchen and in bathroom are terminated, but they ran three and two feet longer respectively past the vent which is just dead space.

No wonder why I cant come close to keeping the rig cool! I never wanted to learn about AC ducting but have been forced to and it took me a while and a lot of reading/messing around to figure it out in my head to solve yet another issue I should not have needed to.

I already have a plan to fix all this with a lot of help from the other AC posts and its late so will add add more info later ...
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Old 07-14-2018, 04:02 AM   #2
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I believe the ducts are supposed to make a complete circle "raceway". Are you certain they terminate over the stove area? I have thought about buying a camera thingy for my smart phone and run down mine, but haven't. I kinda don't want to know, lol.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:38 AM   #3
twvette
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I don't think a "raceway" design is a good idea either. If one AC is off that adds a lot of volume to try and pressurize and don't think you see this in residential/commerical either but not sure.

Yeah, I triple checked them. There is about 3 feet gap between them when look at the tape measurements compared to wall length. Further verification was can see the light reflect back with photo from camera where it does not do this on the ones that are connected.

Just my luck I took my bore scope home last trip as it would have been really nice to fully inspect all ducts to see if any others might be torn somewhere. They are cheap on Amazon.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:10 PM   #4
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So here is what I did in terms of re-configuring/improving/fixing the ducted vents...

1. Plugged the two vents just in front of the garage AC and the one vent next to the bedroom AC. I don't see the point of these. Can get the airflow you need with the vents on the A/C. With these vents open going to have a much harder time getting flow to the other ducts at most will come out of these vents a basically the path of least resistance.
A. To plug the bedroom vent, made about 1in thick foam out of several
layers of some thin rolled foamed that others have used (as proper
closed cell type to handle moisture properly) to put in the
~5in vent hole and taped it. Want to be careful however you do this as
don't want it sticking up into ducting much as it would then restrict
flow to the other vents on the same duct.
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B. *** This one only applies to me since I had a damaged duct per #3
below or for those with other configurations/reasons want to plug
directly at the AC unit **** Since my the one vent in bedroom was
now the only one connected to the right side duct outlet on the AC
unit, I used some pipe insulation that was about 2in outside diameter
and carefully squeezed it into the duct then taped it off. to ensure
sealed.

This is the pipe insulation used for this and #2 and #3 below to terminate going into extra ducting. I taped around it afterwards to ensure fully sealed.
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2. Blocked the extra ducting that extended off the front bathroom duct and the living room one.
A. Used the pipe insulation for this also and basically took like a 12in
piece and did the best I could to wedge it in as a v-shape just behind
the vent hole. Taped around and over it to as well and tried to go over
the hole inside the foam at the ends as best as possible.
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3. Terminated the duct that both AC's would have been connect to. I don't think this is a good idea as they might fight each other and when one is not on that is way too much volume for one A/C to try and feed into IMHO.
A. I actually had no choice as my duct near the kitchen/front door was
destroyed. I plugged this vent but would have been nice to keep it. I
would have used the pipe insulation to terminate the duct just behind
this vent to separate the two AC units. With the bedroom vent plugged
this would be only one on right side of bedroom AC so would get really
good flow then to help with living room cooling.
B. Terminated the duct at the left side of the TV/closest to patio door with
the pipe insulation so it would be the only one on the left side outlet of
the garage AC and it gets really good flow now.

4. Unscrewed all vents from the ceiling to inspect properly and repaired all that were not taped properly to seal the roof heat from the vent hole. As mentioned I had some that were essentially completely open and only a couple had just minor gaps. Did this on all, even the ones I plugged just to ensure sealed as best as possible from roof heat.
Not great, small leaks
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Really bad!
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Fixed
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5. Put the divider in the AC back up and position properly and taped it so will hold as mine keep falling down. Just need to remove outer plastic cover to do this as fair amount of working space. This is critical or wont get much cold air from the AC units to start with. Also taped it up as don't like the non dense insulation seals they use and mine were starting to tear or had some gaps between the housing. Taped up all the ducting, etc. inside the A/Cs as was just done poorly to start with.

Divider fell over
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Divider stood back up but no tape
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Taped divider
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**** Had to split this original post ... see few posts down to continue ****
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:41 PM   #5
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After doing the above the AC is MUCH better.

The vents in the living room have good flow now. Today it is warm, muggy, partially overcast day and first time ever the AC's have really cycled on and off that I have seen and keeping it in at 75 degrees. Still not sure it will keep up on a hot sunny day but big improvement.

The flow I can have into the bathroom is rediculous and almost like being next to the direct AC vent (there is a video of this in link above). Can freeze myself out of the bedroom and bathroom now which is finally normal compared to other toy haulers I have had in past.

Enjoying the ACs being rattle free too if nothing else !!!!

Hope all this helps someone as previous ACs posts have helped me ...
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:16 PM   #6
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Glad it worked out! Good job! No links for pics or video?
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Old 07-21-2018, 03:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Dreamer View Post
Glad it worked out! Good job! No links for pics or video?
Fixed the link. I also added descriptions to each of the pics in the link so click on the "i" button after opening a pic for info about it as you look at each pic/video.
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twvette View Post
Fixed the link. I also added descriptions to each of the pics in the link so click on the "i" button after opening a pic for info about it as you look at each pic/video.
Thanks for trying, getting 404 error on link
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:32 AM   #9
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I'd like to see the pics as well ... getting 404 error.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:03 AM   #10
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twvette

Your link is to a Google account sign-in page and is not permitted on this forum. That's probably why most are getting a 404 error.

If you have the photos on your computer or phone, click on the "paperclip" at the top of your reply screen and then attach the photos to your response. That way all of them will be available to everyone on this forum.

The forum rules prohibit links to sites that require membership. It's one of the SPAM prevention considerations.

So, just post the photos here and make it easy for everyone who is interested in your project.
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Old 07-23-2018, 10:57 AM   #11
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**** continuation ... had to split earlier post so can get all pics in **********


6. Modified most the vent covers grate assembly for more flow/to get the most flow to the end of the duct run. Since the living room is the greatest distance from each AC unit and the most problematic area wanted them to be the most open. For the longest run I had I completely removed the grated cover. It does not look too bad/most will never notice as still has the main plastic vent body. The next option or for ones that are a little closer to the AC unit is to use an exacto blade and its fairly easy to cut off every other grate to really get good flow yet still control airflow direction and not really change the aesthetics. For grates that were very closer to the AC or where there was two to three vents on the same duct tract I kept all the grates on as they see enough pressure and helps get good flow past that vent to the others. In other words, say you have three on one duct I would do the last on with the grate assembly removed, the middle one with every other grate removes, and closest one with all grates in place.

Halfway modified cover. Somewhat shows how much more flow will get
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7. When pulling the outer A/C cover I realized why my AC units are so noisy/rattle so much. The inner plastic mounting screws are in center rather then ends so the ends vibrate against the roof. Used about a 1in wide by 4in long strip of the plastic foam inserted at all four corners after loosened the screws so it would get pinched in to help hold them. The AC makes no extra noise now !!!!

Thin foam inserted to stop rattles
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8. Not directly related, but the bathroom would get really warn due to the large skylight. I have used the spray on Flex Seal in white color in the past to help repair dry rotted skylights that were cracked and leaking successfully and noticed a side benefit was still let some light in but cut it down by about 50%. Also helps with rain noise. So, did the same and should help protect my skylight in general from UV to not crack.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:34 AM   #12
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Love what you did with #6! I'm going to try cutting them out with my trusty dusty dremel tool.
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:02 PM   #13
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Good job! I did all that to mine to no avail...except blocking off any..
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Then you're in the right spot. We're kind of like a 12 step program for wayward Rvers.
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Old 07-24-2018, 04:43 AM   #14
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You may find this adjustable vent a good solution. They also have a dampered one. I did not find any in black, but maybe they could be painted to match. JR Products ACG150DPW-A Coolvent Deluxe Adjustable Ceiling Vent- Polar White

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/JR-Pr...-p/08-0170.htm

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/JR-Pr...-p/08-0216.htm
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:24 PM   #15
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twvette , thanks for this and your drawing is correct. I have the same model 420. I had previously done some resealing with foil AC tape. Both inside the units and also at each vent outlet. Was not really bad but there were a few places that were not done particularly well. I went overboard inside the unit area with sealing it off....lol.
Previously I thought one side of the RV was fed from one unit, and the other side was from the other unit. But a week ago I was bored and checked it out. I was suprised that both units feed the same ducts. Kinda like....just forcing sir into each other. I used a small LED light, placed it inside a vent and used a telescopic mirror to see inside and farther duct and consequently see the LED light.
So yea, your drawing is dead on.

EDIT ** I only did this LED/Mirror check down the curb side.

I did this because of so many post about the ducts extending past the last vent and thus some RVs have dead space. But the FZ420 does not.
But at 43ft long it has a weak blow by the time it reaches the center of the RV.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:29 PM   #16
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Also.....the vent outlets I have are the flat disc ones that open downward. The design kinda makes the air blow out 360* . However, the cool air seems to not make it down to the occupants level to provide comfort. Especially with the high ceilings.
So I removed the disc in the main living area. Blows more downward now and you can actually feeling cooler during hot days.
I think the 360* disc are OK for the master bed and bath areas. But the other louvered directional vents should have been used in this type of high ceiling RV.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:57 PM   #17
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Concerning the fallen divider inside the AC unit, I had same issue. I also noticed they had it positioned wrong.
Now, when you unscrew and remove the AC cover, look on the back side of the housing cover you dropped off. There are 2 'walls' that protrude upwards. They are side guides for that foam divider wall that's between the intake and exhaust sides of the AC unit. My divider wall was crooked in there and was not between those 'walls'.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:12 PM   #18
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It appears you have Coleman Mach 15 Air conditioners. For air movement they have a 1/3HP motor driving a squirrel cage blower rated at 325CFM for air movement. Air conditioners relies on proper air movement to prevent freeze-up's. Restricting air movement will give lowered discharge temperatures but not more BTU output. you only have 15,000 BTU's of output from each unit. Yes the distribution system has a lot to be desired but it is the best you can do with the restricted room in the ceiling. A more traditional way to do it would be to decrease the size of the main duct after each outlet. This keeps the duct pressure constant along with the air velocity. Constant velocity and pressure equate to equal distribution throughout the coach. By the book the existing ducts are undersized already, so they install two. To go back to the Squirrel cage blower, if it is connected to a undersize duct system the pressure rises and the output (volume) decreases. You may feel more volume out of a few vents but the overall system is underperforming.

Enough opining, if you want to get the most out of your AC system just open the vents on each unit. and quit trying to cool the hot under insulated attic.
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Old 07-29-2018, 03:15 PM   #19
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Wink Me too. . .

I’ve had similar flow problems. The heat in Texas really tax’s the AC cooling ability. I’ve provided a pic of a vent hole disk that was left in the bathroom vent. I had heard a constant flutter in the vent and after taking the vent cover off found this. Haven’t dug into all the vents but after reading this I will. Thanks for your insights.
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:46 AM   #20
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Do you own a 326RDS? I had a piece stuck in the duct at the bathroom vent as well!
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