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Old 09-21-2018, 01:28 PM   #1
McMillent82
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new truck, and 5th wheel rides nose high

I have a Keystone Springdale 2011, 27ft. I have been pulling it with a Toyota Tundra. I just upgraded to a Dodge Ram 2500 that sits quite a bit higher, and the 5th wheel now rides nose high. Going over a few dips and I have had the rear bumper scrape the ground. I'm sure I need to make a adjustment, but need some advice on what I need to do. Tom
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:51 PM   #2
Local150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMillent82 View Post
I have a Keystone Springdale 2011, 27ft. I have been pulling it with a Toyota Tundra. I just upgraded to a Dodge Ram 2500 that sits quite a bit higher, and the 5th wheel now rides nose high. Going over a few dips and I have had the rear bumper scrape the ground. I'm sure I need to make a adjustment, but need some advice on what I need to do. Tom
How much clearance do you have between bed rails on truck box and trailer ?
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:05 PM   #3
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+1 ^^^


I had a similar problem when I moved up to an F350 from a F250. The easiest adjustment is at the 5th wheel hitch in the bed, Ideally you want 6 +/- inches between the closed tailgate and the trailer. If you really rough it, off road, the clearance should probably be closer to seven inches.

Good Luck,
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:38 PM   #4
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We are suffering with the same issue. It's even worse when we use the cargo/bike rack.
Hitch is at it's lowest position. Pin box raised until we're just at 7 inches clearance to the bed rails. Still nose high.
I contacted a "spring" shop. They say they can get 3 to 4 inches additional height by reshaping or replacing the existing leaf springs. Also contacted a welding fabricator. He specializes in RV's and said he builds up a frame between the existing I beams and remounts the axels to that. Much safer and stronger (see more expensive) than shimming the axels.
I'm going to the spring shop next week. Hope they can help get us leveled out
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:35 PM   #5
mtofell
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I'm a couple years ahead of you with the exact same situation. My bed rail clearance is great, the 5th is only slightly nose high but the *** end drags at times. I've ripped a rear jack away twice.

For fixes I found pretty much the same thing as you report - you can shim maybe an inch or two or do the full blown sub frame for 3-4" (or maybe more?).

I ended up trying a cheaper route and it's working okay. I had strong rollers welded to the back of the frame. NOT swivel casters but actual rollers:

https://www.etrailer.com/Skid-Wheels...AaAhWgEALw_wcB

The rollers were $100 and I paid a mobile welder $150. Overall I'm super happy. I made it through the summer without ripping off the jacks so I'm moving in a good direction

I'd much rather just have the trailer sit higher but I just can't see sinking that much money into a trailer that is depreciating like the Titanic.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:19 AM   #6
RagingRobert
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I've seen many fifth wheels towing high in the front which IMO is very bad. The main goal when hitching up is to be level to keep all four tires evenly on the ground. Imagine all that weight mostly on the rear tires/axle, not good! I made sure my ride was level thanks to easily adjustable ball heights and my weight distribution hitch, one advantage of hooking up a TT compared to a fifth wheel.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:45 AM   #7
mtofell
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Imagine all that weight mostly on the rear tires/axle
This is one of the more overestimated things that regularly gets circulated on message boards. I'm maybe 2" nose high and my axles are within 100# of each other.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:56 AM   #8
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This is one of the more overestimated things that regularly gets circulated on message boards. I'm maybe 2" nose high and my axles are within 100# of each other.
I'm not exactly sure how to weigh our individual axels on the Cougar.
What's the best way you found to get those weights??
I agree with you, if it's only 100 or so pounds difference I may not bother with the expense of trying to raise the back end.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:41 AM   #9
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Go to some place that has a truck scale,, then put bot trailer axles on the scale,, then pull it to where there is only one axle on the scale, subtract one from the other and you have weight on each axle
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:23 PM   #10
RagingRobert
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Just level your ride as much as possible...common sense says it will tow much better/safer/proper with the weight distributed evenly over both axels not to mention it also looks good...there's two axels for a reason.
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Old 09-27-2018, 07:59 AM   #11
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Go back to the Tundra.
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Old 09-27-2018, 08:50 AM   #12
DEDonaldson
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Nose High

This has become a common problem in recent years with the increase in truck bed heights. We recently went through a similar situation. We purchased a 2017 F250 Super Duty only to discover that our existing 5er would result in a 10" nose high condition. To make a long story short, most of the suggestions related to flipping axles, adding subframes and springs, etc. were generally unsafe alternatives. To make matters worse, manufacturers of 5ers have not kept pace with the increase in bed heights. The good news is, there are some 5ers that have an overhang clearance that, when coupled with the proper 5er hitch, will result in an acceptable match.


In our case, we ended up finding a Keystone Sprinter that had an overhang height that would work with a hitch set to its lowest setting. The short answer is, you may need to return to the Tundra as sarcastically suggested, or bite the bullet and match a different 5er and hitch combination to your new truck. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Just be careful at the dealer, they mostly exhibit a dazed look and claim no knowledge of the nose high problem. It is, I assure you real. So, hook up and check before you close the deal. At the least - measure, measure, measure!!!
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:07 AM   #13
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Update on Nose High

I just found something I prepared last year on the Ford Truck site with more detail regarding nose high. Thought I would post it since it is a more complete explanation.

Well folks, here is an update to the issue raised by this thread. Hopefully my summary will help other new (2017, 2018 etc) buyers with the same problem.

The issue of pairing a 5th wheel with a "modern" truck is becoming more of a definite problem as a result of inadequate communication and conflicting consumer interests for the auto and RV industries.

The following table lists Ford truck bed rail heights for various years:
2008 - 2010: 54.5"
2011 - 2014: 55.1"
2015 - 2016: 56.0"
2017 - 2018: 59.2"

Older 5ers have overhangs in the 55" range while most of the newer ones fall into the 60" area. There are a few 5ers that have overhangs higher than 60" but you need to search them out. The overhang value is not listed in RV specs so you need to actually level the unit and measure the overhang of a unit you are interested in.

I have spoken to truck and RV dealers and manufacturers. Truck manufacturers concede that trucks are taller primarily due to the look factor. RV dealers generally do not acknowledge there is any problem. RV manufacturers are aware of the issue but solutions have been slow in coming due to engineering limitations resulting from (primarily height) specifications imposed by governmental agencies. Some manufacturers have sought solutions which make their 5th wheels just squeak by without having to implement expensive and unsafe solutions such as flipping axles, building sub frames, etc. Some 5er manufacturers now put axles below the springs to start with.

To make a long story short, the "solution" to my problem was solved as follows:

1. Demco Hijacker Autoslide Hitch (DM8550037) installed with under bed mount (DM8551009) and set to lowest height 15 1/2". This hitch was selected not only because it was an autoslide, but because it provided 3 vertical adjustments (which other autoslides did not). Note that the hitch needed to be installed with under bed rails. ISRs would have made the lowest vertical hitch height 1-1/2 higher at the lowest setting. This would have resulted in a nose high configuration.

2. 5er that fits perfectly (or just about level) is a Keystone Sprinter Copper Canyon model M-273FWRET. The overhang on this unit is 65" high at level! Imagine my surprise!

When connected to the truck, the approximate 1-1/2" drop of the bed from pin weight puts the overhang 6-1/2 inches over the side rails in a near perfect level.

I hope this summary and my trials help those of you purchasing a newer truck with bed rails near 60" high. Be prepared to do a lot of searching to get everything to fit. If you already own a 5er and it has 60" or less overhang, be prepared for nose up issues. If you decide to get a replacement 5er to go with your new truck, don't let the RV dealers assure you that whatever 5er you pick will "work." Insist on (or be sure to) hook up and check before signing on the dotted line.
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:53 PM   #14
razahoryin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMillent82 View Post
I have a Keystone Springdale 2011, 27ft. I have been pulling it with a Toyota Tundra. I just upgraded to a Dodge Ram 2500 that sits quite a bit higher, and the 5th wheel now rides nose high. Going over a few dips and I have had the rear bumper scrape the ground. I'm sure I need to make a adjustment, but need some advice on what I need to do. Tom
Checkout trailerblocks.com
Had same problem going from a 2012 f350 to a 2017 F 350
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:17 AM   #15
Cougar24
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Go to some place that has a truck scale,, then put bot trailer axles on the scale,, then pull it to where there is only one axle on the scale, subtract one from the other and you have weight on each axle
If you pull onto a regular truck scale all five axles can be weighed simultaneously and the receipt will show what each axle is carrying.
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