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08-15-2021, 05:27 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Nashville
Posts: 166
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Why is da Weight Police so mean??!?
Courtesy of my friends at the Solano station of the California Highway Patrol
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08-15-2021, 05:46 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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WOW!
Someone's RV salesman lied big time!!!!
Hope no one was seriously hurt?
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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08-15-2021, 05:53 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Nashville
Posts: 166
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It was, in fact, a non-injury collision. No other vehicles involved
__________________
F-350 Dually pulling Fuzion 429
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08-15-2021, 05:56 PM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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Yep, 375 horses of sheer "turbocharged power backed by a 8 speed automatic heavy duty transaxle with full time all wheel drive".... It'll pull anything on the lot....
The small print: But with the unibody construction, light curb weight and limited wheelbase, any trailer over about 4000 pounds will "overpower the vehicle and you might wind up upside down with all 4 tires "safely protected from further road damage".....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-15-2021, 06:50 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Sun City West
Posts: 907
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I've 'heard' that bigger tires would have increased his truck's GVWR....too bad he/she didn't know......totally preventable.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB
2019 F350, SRW, 6.2L, 4.30 gears
Sold: 2020 Keystone Cougar '1/2 ton' TT, 29RLKWE
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08-15-2021, 06:52 PM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,702
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Having seen multiple scenes like that in real life, I am always amazed at some folks willingness to ignore established weight protocols, TV limitations etc. Some out of ignorance, some out of bravado, some out of "I just don't care"...take your pick.
The reality is that most of those folks that want to ignore being safe because they choose to believe something they read on a bathroom wall/dealer/salesman/"GM engineer" on a customer help line, saying they could pull the shuttle with an Explorer......have no idea and will fight to defend their choice. In many, if not most, situations those that ignore safety go on down the road having "iffy" towing experiences and think it's fine; other times we see what the picture shows.....everything OK and folks surviving just fine OR, I've seen the ugly end as well and there would be sheets outside those open doors....... Gamble, play your cards....it is 100% on the person towing.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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08-15-2021, 07:52 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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If that's a Nissan Rogue laying on it's top I think we passed them in Oregon late last week.
We traveled from Seattle area back to Arizona this past week & saw countless inappropriate tow vehicles towing RVs they were never designed to tow. Thanks to Covid the highways are full of folks that have absolutely no business towing anything with the vehicles they're using.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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08-15-2021, 08:01 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Yep, 375 horses of sheer "turbocharged power backed by a 8 speed automatic heavy duty transaxle with full time all wheel drive".... It'll pull anything on the lot....
The small print: But with the unibody construction, light curb weight and limited wheelbase, any trailer over about 4000 pounds will "overpower the vehicle and you might wind up upside down with all 4 tires "safely protected from further road damage".....
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Well John tap out of three isn’t too bad, light TV, and short wheel base of TV compared to length of trailer sure are contributing factors. The fact the TV was unibody had nothing to do with it. In reality a unibody is stiffer and stronger pound for pound, than body on frame.
One of the best TV I have owned for duty, was a 1964 Econoline van, that I stuffed a 302 V8, C4 auto and heavy duty rear axle. Used it to tow a 3,500# 20’ sail boat.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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08-15-2021, 08:09 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Well John tap out of three isn’t too bad, light TV, and short wheel base of TV compared to length of trailer sure are contributing factors. The fact the TV was unibody had nothing to do with it. In reality a unibody is stiffer and stronger pound for pound, than body on frame.
One of the best TV I have owned for duty, was a 1964 Econoline van, that I stuffed a 302 V8, C4 auto and heavy duty rear axle. Used it to tow a 3,500# 20’ sail boat.
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You might want to do just a little homework on unibody construction..... While there are "some" (not many) that approve of heavy duty towing, the majority restrict not only trailer weight, but many (maybe even most) recommend that NO weight distribution hitch equipment be used with their receiver. So.....
As for the "one of a kind, built at home" Econoline van that was "great at towing a 3500 pound, 20' sailboat, the "modern tow vehicle that's "protecting its tires from road rash" in the photo is towing significantly more weight and a longer trailer than that econoline with the major modifications..... BTW, did those mods increase the payload or the GVW ???
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-15-2021, 08:37 PM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Well John tap out of three isn’t too bad, light TV, and short wheel base of TV compared to length of trailer sure are contributing factors. The fact the TV was unibody had nothing to do with it. In reality a unibody is stiffer and stronger pound for pound, than body on frame.
One of the best TV I have owned for duty, was a 1964 Econoline van, that I stuffed a 302 V8, C4 auto and heavy duty rear axle. Used it to tow a 3,500# 20’ sail boat.
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I'm assuming the above is why every HD truck, or even 1/2 ton, runs with a unibody? Never heard that before and certainly never experienced it.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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08-15-2021, 09:32 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Wickenburg
Posts: 3,314
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I'm guessing from that spic-n-span roof that this is a pretty new trailer. First time out?
__________________
2019 Cougar 26RBSWE
2019 Ford F-250
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08-15-2021, 10:18 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
I'm assuming the above is why every HD truck, or even 1/2 ton, runs with a unibody? Never heard that before and certainly never experienced it.
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There is a limit to it’s practically, but pound for pound is a stronger structure. Much like a truss can be made of smaller lighter components than a solid beam.
The reason many of the smaller cars caution against using a WDH is they are not designed as a tow vehicle. Their tow ratings are so low as to make a WDH not
Practical.
The car in the accident was simply a case of too much trailer for too short TV. The trailer in the accident was about 20’ a lot of trailer for small car.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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08-15-2021, 10:35 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
You might want to do just a little homework on unibody construction..... While there are "some" (not many) that approve of heavy duty towing, the majority restrict not only trailer weight, but many (maybe even most) recommend that NO weight distribution hitch equipment be used with their receiver. So.....
As for the "one of a kind, built at home" Econoline van that was "great at towing a 3500 pound, 20' sailboat, the "modern tow vehicle that's "protecting its tires from road rash" in the photo is towing significantly more weight and a longer trailer than that econoline with the major modifications..... BTW, did those mods increase the payload or the GVW ???
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LOL, well most vehicles that are unibody are smaller compact and and SUVs, one of the draw backs is that because the is designed as a whole, the frame rails boxes are not heavy steel, but sheet metal not designed for point loading.
I installed a 2” receiver hitch on my DD Honda Ridgeline and the plates that attached to the factory attachment points were about 20” long the spread stress over a large area.
As to the Econoline I was about 21 years old when I built that beast. I had can’t remember the GVWR or what it weighed hooked up to the sail boat.
Never an issues towing that boat with it.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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08-16-2021, 02:03 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,335
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U-Haul has a long history of sporadic renting to people with unibody vehicles. BIL's Explorer, maybe 2010-11 or so, U-Haul told us no way. It wouldn't even enter into their computer. Attendant told that was the reason.
On another note, we just ordered a '22 Ford Transit Titanium, WITH trailer tow package! DW and I are headed to the Airstream dealer to maybe trade our little Salem for the new 33 Classic.
I can see it now; Transit on its side sliding down the interstate, Airstream tumbling behind us, and Vinnie's friends getting it all on dash cam, readying it to be posted on Facebook!
God, I love this place!
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
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08-16-2021, 02:25 AM
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#15
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,763
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[B] "[Never an issues towing that boat with it."B]
I can only imagine the driver of the car in the photo saying something similar just before going "belly up". That's one of the problems with current industry practice of the "sure you can tow it" mentality to make a sale. Yup, I'll bet "he or she towed it just fine" just prior to the the event that resulted in that photo.
The next conversation (with the insurance adjuster) was probably "You were towing WHAT with a WHAT?". "Will this effect your rates? "
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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08-16-2021, 05:39 AM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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Doing a little "detective dog work" there's not a lot of hints on which floorplan or how big the trailer might be, but the roofline shows the shower skylight on the curbside forward part of the trailer. There are three 2020 Wilderness floorplans with that configuration:
2500RL, 32' long 7400 GVW
2575RK, 31' long 7400 GVW
3350DS, 38' long 9600 GVW
https://www.heartlandrvsource.com/sp...4210?year=2020
Surely, the driver in that photo wouldn't be trying to tow a 38' trailer..... Or would he ????? How could any salesman/service manager even consider selling something like this ???
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-16-2021, 05:56 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: South US
Posts: 712
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The CHP officer reached for his ticket book but the owner was quick to point out the "upgraded" (upside down) door sticker he had received in the mail from the vehicle manufacture. After airbags, Bilstein shocks and upgraded tires the owner/driver was able to avoid citation with his "new" payload sticker. People that believe this scenario are the same ones that back up to those trailers at the dealership of purchase, watch the team hitch it up and get a nice pat on the back from the salesman with a "you'll be fine" wink.
Until the real 'responsible party" the dealerships, are acknowledged and disciplined for their actions you will continue to see photos similar to post number one. The dealership is exempt because the owner approves the hook up is a BS excuse. IMHO
I did see one individual the other day that was towing a trailer a little larger than the one in the photo with a short wheelbase Chevy Tahoe. No WDH with the headlights poised to find aircraft and no sway control. He was doing maybe 45 MPH in the slow lane on the interstate with his emergency flasher signals on. All I can figure is after his first stomp on the throttle when he got it up to about 60 and almost lost it was his wake up call that his future trips were going to be "extended". Where was Ken when I needed him?
RMc
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 SRW Aisin Trans. HO CTD
Air Lift Bags -Curt 16K Slider Hitch
2017 Laredo 350 FB
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08-16-2021, 07:07 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Doing a little "detective dog work" there's not a lot of hints on which floorplan or how big the trailer might be, but the roofline shows the shower skylight on the curbside forward part of the trailer. There are three 2020 Wilderness floorplans with that configuration:
2500RL, 32' long 7400 GVW
2575RK, 31' long 7400 GVW
3350DS, 38' long 9600 GVW
https://www.heartlandrvsource.com/sp...4210?year=2020
Surely, the driver in that photo wouldn't be trying to tow a 38' trailer..... Or would he ????? How could any salesman/service manager even consider selling something like this ???
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I did the same search, with same results. I took the picture and loaded in another window and took a pice of paper and marked the 8’ width on it then used it to measure length. The result was a length of about 22’ max. The issue was that for all model lines only the longest units had a forward bath, all the short units were rear bath.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
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08-16-2021, 07:33 AM
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#19
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
I did the same search, with same results. I took the picture and loaded in another window and took a pice of paper and marked the 8’ width on it then used it to measure length. The result was a length of about 22’ max. The issue was that for all model lines only the longest units had a forward bath, all the short units were rear bath.
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There is clearly a shower skylight on the curbside forward section of the trailer. The shortest Wilderness travel trailer built in 2020 with a bathroom in that area was 31' long with a GVWR of 7400 pounds. Trying to "measure and use proportions to get an estimated length based on a known trailer width so the length should be...." Just go to the manufacturer's website and locate the only floorplans with a skylight in that area and you immediately eliminate all trailers shorter than 31' because Heartland didn't build any with that skylight shorter than.....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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08-16-2021, 08:38 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo
Well John tap out of three isn’t too bad, light TV, and short wheel base of TV compared to length of trailer sure are contributing factors. The fact the TV was unibody had nothing to do with it. In reality a unibody is stiffer and stronger pound for pound, than body on frame.
One of the best TV I have owned for duty, was a 1964 Econoline van, that I stuffed a 302 V8, C4 auto and heavy duty rear axle. Used it to tow a 3,500# 20’ sail boat.
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I was about 12-13 I went fishing with my Grandad, his usual tow vehicle for his 14' outboard boat was in the shop getting tires & serviced so they loaned him an Econoline pickup, I guess you'd call it a pickup it had a bed, we unloaded the boat, fished, loaded the boat on the trailer, now for reference this was a long steep ramp, but that "pickup" thing would only make a humming noise, it would not move that boat up that ramp, wouldn't even spin a tire on the wet ramp, finally got someone to tie on to it & tow it & the boat up the ramp, what a huge POS. That was my 1st Ford experience (unfortunately not my last) & my grandad's one & only Ford experience, his usual tow vehicle at that time was a '62 Buick Wildcat, that would've jerked that Econoline thing to pieces & drove Buicks til the day he passed.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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