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Old 07-29-2018, 12:53 PM   #1
sourdough
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Towing Weight Questions? Here's All The Answers!

I was comparing air springs vs the sumo springs being discussed elsewhere and came across this video. I had not seen it before and it is quite possibly the best effort at explaining all the nuances of weights, towing and the ramifications of not following those limits that I have ever seen.

We have had lots of new members and lots that don't understand the various limitations and the interplay between them. It's a little bit long, but, I didn't find it boring even though I knew the information. Here it is and hope you find it worthwhile:



Whoops! Just looked at post and didn't know it wouldn't just let you click on the link and view. There is a note to view on you tube in the center of the box when it comes up; just click on it and the video will play.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:23 PM   #2
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I'm bringing this post out, as it falls out the bottom, simply because what it provides is what countless folks have continually asked about; or were confused about...or? Those that have zero idea of towing rules/guidelines MUST review the video. So, until those that have no idea of towing guidelines look into what is required to be "knowledgeable"...I guess we hope for everyone to learn towing "stuff".
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:30 AM   #3
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Excellent video, should be required viewing for those purchasing a rig. Unfortunately there will always be the folks who just don't understand or are unwilling to recognize an error in their judgment by rationalizing that they only "go a short distance" or "don't take much". Typically these are the same folks that come back later asking about attachments to add cargo to the camper's bumper and what's the best route to a cg 600 miles away.
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Old 08-19-2018, 05:43 PM   #4
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Great post and video. This is why I shake my head every time I here the dealer advertisements claiming "Half ton towable" or "our half ton series."

Wishful thinking sells a lot of trailers.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:04 PM   #5
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Whatchyagot

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjr vfr View Post
Great post and video. This is why I shake my head every time I here the dealer advertisements claiming "Half ton towable" or "our half ton series."

Wishful thinking sells a lot of trailers.
Most rv dealers will say their trailers are towable by "whatchyagot" vehicles. You ask them what you need to tow the triple axle 35,000 lb fiver and the salesman will say "whatchyagot?". You tell him a 1972 Datsun 4 cyl and he tells you "don't worry, whatchyagot will tow anything on the lot!"
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:52 PM   #6
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Yup new 2500 Ford has more gvw then my 2018 3500 duramax . Im supprised isn t lawsuits with Ford posting tremendous amount of weight for 2500.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by roadglide View Post
Yup new 2500 Ford has more gvw then my 2018 3500 duramax . Im supprised isn t lawsuits with Ford posting tremendous amount of weight for 2500.
Maximum GVWR for a 2500 is 10,000#. I believe that a Ram 3500 SRW has a max GVWR of 12,400#.
I got to believe that a 3500 Duramax has at least 11,500# of GVWR.

Now if you are talking PAYLOAD, it could be possible that a stripper F250 gasser, could have more payload than a GM 3500 loaded to the gills SRW.

Just the same as a F150 Max/Max can have more payload than a diesel F250.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:28 PM   #8
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Combined gvw 1ton Ford 33000lbs , I'm seeing big fusions towed with SRW 1 ton dodges with 33000lbs combined weight. My duramax wouldn't be legal but Ford and dodge are go to pull over 30000 lbs .
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by roadglide View Post
Combined gvw 1ton Ford 33000lbs , I'm seeing big fusions towed with SRW 1 ton dodges with 33000lbs combined weight. My duramax wouldn't be legal but Ford and dodge are go to pull over 30000 lbs .
Not sure of your numbers for SRW, Ram has a Max SRW GVWR of 12,400# which is about a 4,000# payload. making a 16,000# 5er about the maximum it can CARRY and Pull within numbers. Making the max GCVWR about 24,000#. I don't have current access to RAM's towing charts.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:42 PM   #10
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Interesting video. I'm presuming you get hitch weight from the manufacturer or are people just taking a percentage of GVWR of the trailer.
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:54 PM   #11
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Tufelhunden, most who get that far in to it have the yellow slips from theCAT scale. Then there is no guessing.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:03 PM   #12
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Tufelhunden, most who get that far in to it have the yellow slips from theCAT scale. Then there is no guessing.
Total newbie, but I'm presuming you mean they weigh the truck with no trailer, then weigh the truck with the trailer hooked up but only the truck on the scale? Which could show the difference, or tounge weight when subtracted from the first weighing. Or is their another method.

I went off the manufacturers specifications when buying the trailer which left me 1000 pounds for cargo in the truck and well under the GVCWR. F150 with 1938 payload and 17100 GVCWR, 8800 GVWR trailer and 7050 GVWR truck. Thought I was being safe.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:59 AM   #13
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Like the guy in the video you need to do all the calculation if you want to know what's...what.
I think to many people just use the manufacture's tow number and if it's more than their trailer they think all's good to go. There is a lot more to it.
I see F150's and Toyota Tundra's pulling 11,000 lbs 5th wheels. They are for sure over limit on some of these numbers, but I think that they assume the sticker says 11,500 lbs tow capacity that means all is good. IMHO, I personally wouldn't tow anything nearly that big with a half ton, especially a 5th wheel with so much hitch weight.
There is a huge difference in the type of rear axle between a 1/2 ton and a 3/4 ton truck. The full floating axles of a heavy duty pickup are made to support a great amount of weight. A 1/2 ton's semi-floating axle with internal (much smaller) bearings that can be overloaded. Again, IMHO the manufacture's are pushing the limits of these trucks in order to sell them.
When we started towing a few years ago I did a lot of asking around from the long time rv'ers and universally I was told, if you're going to do much towing "don't even bother with a 1/2 ton."
With that said, I'm not knocking 1/2 tons. I just think some people are expecting too much when it comes to towing.
There I think I said enough...lol
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:11 AM   #14
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The manufacturers should stop posting the "can tow xXxX lb trailer", most will exceed the payload of the vehicle long before they'll tow a 30k rv.
Even if the F150 has the same GVW as the F250 I'd choose the 250 (if I were a Ford guy), it's meant to be a hauler.
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:37 AM   #15
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The manufacturers should stop posting the "can tow xXxX lb trailer", most will exceed the payload of the vehicle long before they'll tow a 30k rv.
Even if the F150 has the same GVW as the F250 I'd choose the 250 (if I were a Ford guy), it's meant to be a hauler.
And again, you guys are thinking travel trailers, both tow behind and 5vers. Flat bed trailer towing (think towing construction equipment) doesn't put the wind resistance or as much pin weight on the truck if the equipment is loaded on the trailer further back on the bed. And nowhere will you find a truck manufacturer that states a particular type trailer, such as a camping trailer......they just say "trailer". So if that flatbed trailer is loaded correctly, it could be pulled by the truck without exceeding the truck payload capacity.....camping trailers, not so much.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:30 PM   #16
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And again, you guys are thinking travel trailers, both tow behind and 5vers. Flat bed trailer towing (think towing construction equipment) doesn't put the wind resistance or as much pin weight on the truck if the equipment is loaded on the trailer further back on the bed. And nowhere will you find a truck manufacturer that states a particular type trailer, such as a camping trailer......they just say "trailer". So if that flatbed trailer is loaded correctly, it could be pulled by the truck without exceeding the truck payload capacity.....camping trailers, not so much.

You are right we're thinking tt's and 5vers because this is a tt and 5vers web site.
As far as I know Keystone don't make flat bed trailers?
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:29 PM   #17
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The towing standard the manufacturers now follow is pretty specific on the trailer needed to test the engine. Not so much on, what is used to check vehicle dynamics.

https://www.automotive-fleet.com/fc_.../pdf/j2807.pdf

The mule tests I have seen on I70 are usually some strange looking weight sled with dual axles.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:12 PM   #18
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Well, based on post #17, it appears that the new SAE standards for towing aren't significantly more realistic than the older standards. To me, it seems that there are some parts of RV towing that are addressed, some that appear to be ignored.

Anyone who has towed a 9000 pound tractor on a 6000 pound trailer (15000 pounds) knows it doesn't handle like a 15000 pound 40' toy hauler.

So, it seems to me that we're really no better equipped to look at the "new standards" as quoted by the truck manufacturers and have any more reason to believe that their tow vehicles will perform any better with the new ratings than they did with the older ratings when it comes to towing a "big flat sided RV"
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:17 PM   #19
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Well, based on post #17, it appears that the new SAE standards for towing aren't significantly more realistic than the older standards. To me, it seems that there are some parts of RV towing that are addressed, some that appear to be ignored.

Anyone who has towed a 9000 pound tractor on a 6000 pound trailer (15000 pounds) knows it doesn't handle like a 15000 pound 40' toy hauler.

So, it seems to me that we're really no better equipped to look at the "new standards" as quoted by the truck manufacturers and have any more reason to believe that their tow vehicles will perform any better with the new ratings than they did with the older ratings when it comes to towing a "big flat sided RV"
I think the only real benefit is that most manufacturers are now using the same set of rules. Kind of like the MPG tests. They may not be totally accurate, but at least you can compare and contrast between similar vehicles using them.

"The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." ~ Grace Hopper ~
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by fjr vfr View Post
You are right we're thinking tt's and 5vers because this is a tt and 5vers web site.
As far as I know Keystone don't make flat bed trailers?
Are you simply trying to be funny....or do you seriously NOT get it, what I'm saying and the difference between towing a RV and a flat bed trailer?
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