Are the premium models really better?

[Customer]

Hello, we are shopping and have looked at the Fuzion 345. We are also considering the Grand Design Momentum but my questions refer strictly to the Fuzion.

Keystone calls the Fuzion and Raptor their premium TH models. Maybe someone can explain what that means.

Are the premium models build on separate lines? Separate factories? I doubt there could be substantial differences if they roll off the same lines in the same factories.

They mention screwed rather than stapled construction, is it true?

What about wall and roof construction and insulation?

In summary, I am willing to pay for quality but I want to be sure I am getting quality and not just glitz. I have found the factory website to be very lacking in information regarding construction and quality.

This RV will be used for long term part time and maybe future full time living.

Thanks,
Tim

[Zappa]

I bought a Fuzion on the same premise that they were the premium quality RV over the other brands. When I got into the guts of the trailer I was disgusted with the way they built it. A couple for instances are; the wall sockets. The hole was cut for the electrical outlet with a around hole saw, one over the top of the other rather than a rectangular hole. Now the socket does not fit tight to the wall without bending inward. All the interior cuts were done with a router and great big holes for all the pass throughs for pluming and such. The drawer supports were only held together with one screw per level on one corner, the drawers were not secure and fell to the left side. The ramp door is just plain junk.

They look great from the birds eye but when it is all said and done, there is no building code on an RV so there is really no standard to adhere to. The only thing they know is how many can we build today.

My advice to you is to get onto the guts of one and decide for your self. A quick way to see if they did a good job or not is to pull one of the outlet covers off and have a look there. That will give you some indication of the quality put into building that coach.

Good luck

[Mike484]

What I have found, is with quality, comes cost. A $30,000 RV is the same, no matter the manufacturer or model. But, even at that, just because it costs more, you may still not be getting higher quality, maybe the higher cost is nothing more than just adding fancy options. If you are looking for higher quality, you must also be willing to pay much more.

[dcg9381]

I think I believe the same thing.
Dealers sell trim level as "quality". It's not. It's just more options and better finish out.

[Pull Toy]

You really need to do your homework when comparing units, and sometimes it really does seem like "apples and oranges". If you're not sure, bring an experienced RV friend with you to pick apart features, and stare and compare.

Keystone lists Montana and Alpine as Premium 5'ers. In most cases, they're probably built on the same line by the same workers, just like Suburbans and Escalades, but have higher end appliances and utilities. As far as I know, Montana and Alpine are the only units that have a stock Heat Pump / AC unit combo's for the rear unit. Also check for Electric / Gas 10 gallon "fast recovery" hot water combo, Stainless Steel appliances, Corean countertops, dove tailed drawers, with quality slide type drawer supports, and upgraded hardware.

When all is said and done, only you can decide what works for you, but don't be afraid to ask questions, both of your dealer, and of us.

Good Luck!

[notanlines]

Customer, let's compare this situation to a Chevy pickup just for an example. You do realize that a plain Silverado 1500 at 33,000 is made in a different plant than a Chevy Denali at 60,000 and will only last half as long. Better engines, better transmissions, better paint.
What? They're not? Well, go figure. Huh, for twice the money I'd a thought they'd have been built at another location with a lot better ingredients. Trailers like that maybe?

[1jeep]

When we bought our Carbon we also looked at the Raptor, even found they each had models that shared the same floor plans.
Only differences I could find were that some of the standard options on the raptor were upgrades on the carbon. For us we optioned the carbon with the 2nd ac unit, gen and 3 batteries, I felt no need for 6 hydraulic jacks and a side by side fridge as we only camp weekends and such.
If I were full timing I might have considered going up for the more features, other things such as a bigger brand name tv are things I can change anytime. Honestly its been a year and I have yet to watch the tv. My carbon came with woodish floors and solid surface countertops, decent cabinets and stainless fridge face.

Did I feel the raptor or higher end were better in workmanship or quality, NO, rolled out of the same factory built by the same company with the same standards.

My suggestion is buy the one with the features you want/need, whether it is the premium model or not.

[Face Down]

Originally Posted by 1jeep

When we bought our Carbon we also looked at the Raptor, even found they each had models that shared the same floor plans.

I will expand on this a bit as we did the same thing comparing. A Carbon 357 and a Raptor 375TS are pretty much the exact same floor plan....from my observations here are the differences:

Construction exactly the same....and my guess built on the same line by the same people. I feel the construction was really good on both units.

Raptor:
weighs more (2K pounds)
costs more ($15-20K)
has much nicer appliances, fixtures, stereos, TV's, interior lights
has a better outside finish
has many more standard features (Hyd. Leveling, 2nd Awning, Built-in Vacuum Cleaner, second AC, 2nd and 3rd TV)
has 4 step vs. 3 step entry.
has less outside storage (to house bigger water heater and vacuum system)
has slam latches and shocks on outside doors
has double fuel station
has frame-less windows
comes with a King Bed (and different bedroom slide layout)
comes with a "Toy Lock"
comes with fireplace
has less counter space
has less inside cabinets
has washer and dryer prep.

I am sure there are more differences but what is listed above makes it a premium unit over a Carbon. Is it worth the extra money...that is up to the individual, in our case it was not and we are very happy with our purchase. If they would have been the same price...ya, we would have went with the Raptor.

[1jeep]

Originally Posted by Face Down

I will expand on this a bit as we did the same thing comparing. A Carbon 357 and a Raptor 375TS are pretty much the exact same floor plan....from my observations here are the differences:

Construction exactly the same....and my guess built on the same line by the same people. I feel the construction was really good on both units.

Raptor:
weighs more (2K pounds)
costs more ($15-20K)
has much nicer appliances, fixtures, stereos, TV's, interior lights
has a better outside finish
has many more standard features (Hyd. Leveling, 2nd Awning, Built-in Vacuum Cleaner, second AC, 2nd and 3rd TV)
has 4 step vs. 3 step entry.
has less outside storage (to house bigger water heater and vacuum system)
has slam latches and shocks on outside doors
has double fuel station
has frame-less windows
comes with a King Bed (and different bedroom slide layout)
comes with a "Toy Lock"
comes with fireplace
has less counter space
has less inside cabinets
has washer and dryer prep.

I am sure there are more differences but what is listed above makes it a premium unit over a Carbon. Is it worth the extra money...that is up to the individual, in our case it was not and we are very happy with our purchase. If they would have been the same price...ya, we would have went with the Raptor.

My carbon came with a washer dryer prep, which I will never use.
Double fuel station would be nice if I used this trailer where I would need the generator, but I really don't.
Fireplace...I have one at home and prefer the campfire.
I really didn't feel the appliances were that much nicer, just not worth the extra $$ to me
my carbon did come with a second ac and generator, but the one thing I do wish I had requested was a second awning over the rear door.
For us the carbon was the perfect fit, we moved up from an older travel trailer, so this already felt fancy and im the guy still sitting outside at the campfire with a cooler of beer.

[Face Down]

Originally Posted by 1jeep

My carbon came with a washer dryer prep, which I will never use.
Double fuel station would be nice if I used this trailer where I would need the generator, but I really don't.
Fireplace...I have one at home and prefer the campfire.
I really didn't feel the appliances were that much nicer, just not worth the extra $$ to me
my carbon did come with a second ac and generator, but the one thing I do wish I had requested was a second awning over the rear door.
For us the carbon was the perfect fit, we moved up from an older travel trailer, so this already felt fancy and im the guy still sitting outside at the campfire with a cooler of beer.

Yea...I would have never used the washer dryer either, we are weekend warriors and if we stay somewhere a week they have a laundromat...not worth the space, money or weight!

I am fine with the single tank...my Club Car takes a charge, not a refill.

I don't even use my fireplace at home...

Got the 2nd AC and genny too!

I plan on adding the 2nd awning before my week trip to Myrtle beach in August just to keep some heat off the garage area. It got awful hot back there last summer on that trip.

"For us the carbon was the perfect fit, we moved up from an older travel trailer, so this already felt fancy and im the guy still sitting outside at the campfire with a cooler of beer." Me too!!

[1jeep]

Even in New England we were glad to have the second AC, on a trailer over 32' I think it is very much needed.

when I pointed out to my wife that we could have a washer/dryer her response was ...well I wont post that here...lol

AS far as needing a premium trailer If we were full timing or doing long trips it might be nice.

Please post when you do the second awning, I really want to do one, but hesitate to take that first step.

[Rick52]

I did my homework for about a 1 or 2 years, finally decided on a fusion 371. I know it's not a super expensive unit, but falls into the premium priced units msrp's at around a 100k, got mine for 63k, don't know why they just don't say 63k, because I'd feel ripped off it I had paid anymore..... At a glance they look great, crawl around underneath and look around at the details, which you don't notice until your home, and you'll find that it's really pretty shoddy workmanship. It seems there is no set assembly practice in place, sort of like a track house, depends on who's pounding the nails any given day, whose running the wiring etc, not much quality control. Brought mine home from northern Calif to southern Calif, about a 350 mile drive. As I'm backing into my driveway the brakes are making a scraping sound. A few days later, when I had a chance, I started pulling tires and drums, parts are falling out everywhere, magnets, adjusters, springs, etc. on the right side. Left side intact but the rear seals never installed in the drum tight so they stayed on the axle as I pull the drum off, grease all over the brake assembly on both left wheels, I realize this is dexters fault, but none the less. Also where the wires feed come down to the electric brakes from the underbelly, they were left so long they were scraping on the tires and had worn thru the insulation down to the copper by the time I got home, this is keystones fault. I have to say everything inside worked, hot water, air,heat, frig, mw, water pump, slides incommand system, no leaks, and finish on everything is fine. On the whole I think they could spend just a little more time and make an outstanding unit, more quality control is needed. Many of the little things that bug me can be fixed an someone else may not even care or notice. I would caution anyone that is picking up a unit that's at a dealership far from Indiana, to check the brakes asap. You don't know how the driver that delivered it treated it during the trip. I have a feeling mine was driven over the rockies to Turlock at break neck speeds and the dealership had no idea the brakes were trashed.......

[gtsum2]

I think they r all about the same. I have a 345 chrome msrp for 110, got it for 62. Better than most I think and no real issues after 7000 miles. I do like the grand design momentums though...but they r much bigger and heavier and too much for my 3500 srw


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[bitten]

Looking at 2 Montana Legacy models to trade up from 28Rls cougar TT. Huge difference in materials. DW says we need more room for guest travelers.