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Old 01-26-2019, 09:56 AM   #1
ajk170
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2018 Alpine FK shower drain

Hi everyone- my in-laws just traded their class A in for a 2018 Alpine Front Kitchen and I’ve been going through with them doing a few simple upgrades and helping to get them familiar with the coach. I found a thread that talked about he shower draining into the black tank and shire-enough I took the front panel off the shower base and saw the HEVPO drain and the tank the shower drains into. Since the in-laws were not convinced by the visual inspection I took my led camera inspection scope (Rigid brand) and since the toilet/blank tank has not been used, ran the scope into the toilet and positioned the camera where I expected the shower drain entered the black tank. Once I saw what looked to be the drain opening from the shower in the black tank, I closed the toilet valve to stop the water and then turned on the shower and had them watch the screen on the scope and they saw the water pour in. They were stunned that Keystone would do that and are now going to call to argue with Keystone to fix this under warranty. I think it’s pointless to go back to Keystone and just take it to our trusted Rv repair place here in El Paso and have them do it. I suspect it will be about a four (4) to five (5) hour job ($120 an hour) on the labor side and parts would be about $80. This Alpine has those rivits holding the coroplast on so that will take a minute to get that off. I agree with what I saw in other posts- this was a cheap and easy way to plumb the shower and Keystone will ultimately say it’s not a design flaw. In the end, since they full time, they feel this needs to be changed/fixed whether they pay or Keystone.

Any thoughts on how best to argue with Keystone?
Thanks! -Andy
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Old 01-26-2019, 02:58 PM   #2
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This is for my curiosity, Does the unit have 3 waste tanks? does the bathroom sink drain into it's own tank? The kitchen has it's own tank and the clothes washer drain goes where?

In our world the shower/ BR sink tank is the first to fill up. At this point we empty all 3, and there is significant volume in the black tank. It would be insane to put the shower into the black tank. Like others the tank level indicators are defective.
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:23 PM   #3
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If my bath/shower grey tank gets full it backs up into the shower, usually when I'm all lathered up, would not want that to happen if mixed with black water. YUK!
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:40 PM   #4
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x2 .... First time my toes got fertilized . piping would get changed quickly !! I to can not believe this is a reasonable design.
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:30 PM   #5
ajk170
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Frank G- the washer and bathroom sink drain to the same grey tank, kitchen has its own and toilet and shower drain to the black. Through my inspection (did not use the indicators because I agree, they are worthless) with my inspection scope,(Rigid with the 3’ flex wand and led lights with waterproof camera on the end) there was only one other inlet in the black tank other than what the toilet drained into. As I said in the zip, I put the scope one that other inlet and the ran the shower and watched the water pour into the black tank from that inlet the scope was watching. That proved the inlet was draining the shower into the black tank. Our issue is that Keystone doesn’t advertise this fact that the shower drains into the black- and from what I can see, the black is the smallest tank so the average consumer (ie my in-laws) have a reasonable expectation that their black is reserved for human waste and grey is for shower, sinks and washer. I’m sure they have an counter arguement, but it can’t really be that logical.
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:36 PM   #6
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TT- my DW and I have a 2015 Outback (316RL) that we love and our shower has backed up on occasion when I forget to open the grey water and I too find it backs up at the worst time! I’m sure the Hevpo is supposed to help prevent a back ups but if the valve remains inflated when water is present, but when water backs up, the hevpo will stay inflated and stuff from the black tank could float up...
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Old 01-26-2019, 06:38 PM   #7
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Pararptor- I agree, I told them just get it fixed and do not let this go. Argue with Keystone about who’s paying but it’s got to get changed out.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:56 PM   #8
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Well here’s an update on the shower draining into the black tank issue. We called Keystone today and the customer rep on the phone said take it to a certified Keystone center and have them file a claim. They rep acknowledged it didn’t sound right but a phone rep doesn’t really know and can’t commit Keystone to anything. So we’ll take it to our trusted rep and then battle to see who pays the bill. Is there any recommendations that we should do when they pul the coroplast to do the drain work? Thanks Andy
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Old 02-02-2019, 03:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajk170 View Post
Well here’s an update on the shower draining into the black tank issue. We called Keystone today and the customer rep on the phone said take it to a certified Keystone center and have them file a claim. They rep acknowledged it didn’t sound right but a phone rep doesn’t really know and can’t commit Keystone to anything. So we’ll take it to our trusted rep and then battle to see who pays the bill. Is there any recommendations that we should do when they pul the coroplast to do the drain work? Thanks Andy
Are you sure they have to go through the bottom? They may choose to route under the shower and into the sink base or w/d prep drains to access the tank using existing entry points. Whatever happens it will be there choice.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:41 AM   #10
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As Frank said, they may be able to pull the "removable rear panel" from the passthrough storage area and access the plumbing run from the shower, re-route it to the sink drain (into the gray tank) and cap the black tank entry where it was disconnected. That would be the easiest and prevent pulling tanks (all inlet connections are on the top). It also would prevent a potential for the "old shower inlet into the black tank" from being hidden, out of sight and potentially a "smelly leak about to happen"....
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:34 AM   #11
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Frank G- I appreciate you weighing in on this, and I’m not certain that they will have to drop the bottom. I have removed the panel under the shower and that’s where it’s readily visible as to how they plumbed the shower into the black since it’s right there. I did try to use the scope and get down to see where the grey tank is and how tough it would be but I couldn’t really tell but I “assumed” it to be tough because nothing seemed readily visible but I maybe missing something too! Thanks for the thoughts!
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:39 AM   #12
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JRTJH- thanks for your input as well! Looking at the coroplast, it would appear it is all one piece and held in with that rivit instead of a bolt. However, there maybe an interior access panel that I’m missing, such as in the laundry or under the bathroom sink tha could provide better access to a grain line rather than the tank itself. I hadn’t considered that type of thinking out of the box type of solution! Thanks for the support!
MTF...
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:19 PM   #13
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So quick update- talked to our trusted Keystone Service shop and they agreed that it sounds pretty odd and took the VIN because they want to talk to Keystone. I suspect they are cautious because it might not be covered under warranty. I was expecting them to want to look at it first but they didn’t. So I'm not sure what they are expecting to get from Keystone at this point, but I hate to second guess our Service shop- maybe this is just part of the process to get the ball rolling to do the work. I can say they were not excited when I told them the coroplast was NOT bolted on, rather it is the odd rivets. Looking at some of the other posts about that type of mounting, it sounds like a lot of work to tap those rivets out. If Keystone doesn't authorize the work I think I may have to do that part myself. But I maybe getting ahead of myself, Like others have said, there maybe an easier solution to this one! More to Follow (MTF)!
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #14
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ajk170, FWIW (probably not much) I have a 2019 3800FK and the shower absolutely, positively drains into the back grey tank (aka grey 1), not the black tank.

While I doubt that Keystone will be much moved by "some random guy on the internet says..." I thought you might be interested in knowing that at least this FK drains the shower the way you were expecting and not into the black tank.

On a somewhat related side note, though, the first time we used the shower it actually drained all over the bathroom floor! Upon investigation, I found the bottom tracks for the shower doors were installed backwards, with the drain holes pointing out to the floor rather than inwards toward the shower drain. Since we just headed out on a multi-day trip, I found it to be less hassle to just pull the track and reinstall it the correct way and continue our trip than to go back to town and mess with the dealer.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:15 PM   #15
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Thunk- This is great news, at least I know that some of these are plumbed two different ways and there is a way in-which to plumb it to the gray 1. From what I could tell, plumbing it into gray 1 wouldn't be too much of a challenge but it would take some engineering. I think it's like everybody says, there is little consistency in the manufacturing process and there is a lot of "customization" happening on the assembly line.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:58 PM   #16
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So I got the call from our reliable Keystone service shop and they talked with Keystone and Keystone acknowledges that some of the 3800FKs showers were plumbed into the black tank due to the way it was built and they will pay for the repair if it can be fixed but there is no guarantee that it can be fixed. So when they drop the coroplast, I'm planning on being there to see what the under side looks like. I should ask them if I can pay to have some additional insulation installed as well!
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:46 PM   #17
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ajk170 this is just some additional information for you. In the fall of 2017 we toured the Keystone facility in Goshen IN, Specifically the building where the Alpine, Avalanche, and Laredo are built. This is a lower output /day facility, producing about half the volume compared to the Cougar or Montana lines. They also build at least 3 of the same model units back to back. So...there are at least 2 other units plumbed like yours.

Good luck getting yours repaired properly.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:17 PM   #18
ajk170
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Frank G - thanks for the insight! Although I know better based on everything Sr members here and on other forums talk about the manner in which these coach’s are built and the what would appears as a lack of clear blueprints and QA/QC processes and procedures, I’m amazed at how this could happen and be different on different runs of the line! Since being back on here I’ve seen two other members talk about this- maybe we’re the thee units!
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:58 PM   #19
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Well, it's now in with our repair shop- on the initial observation the tech agrees the do not want to drop the coroplast. But since earlier this month the ILs found a list of items that need to be looked at or repaired so it's going to be in there for awhile. I hope they can figure out what to do on the black tank, two showers seems to fill the black tank up. Maybe some people wouldn't mind, or even realize the issue, but since they full-time it bothers them so I'll keep it updated with the results!
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