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Old 05-14-2019, 04:18 PM   #31
FlyingAroundRV
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
... I guess the trick is what do you do when you've found you made a mistake (hopefully they studied up)? Hopefully correct it vs getting mad or just ignoring the situation. ...
And then there's the other solution to making a mistake; Double down and deny, deny, deny. IMHO, the reality deniers are the most dangerous and intractable.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:02 AM   #32
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I have seen more SUV's with bumper pulls on their side in our travels than pickup trucks!!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:22 AM   #33
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It's definately challenging. Ignorance is bliss until disaster strikes. Deniers deny until disaster strikes. It's all well and good until it isn't. No one knows when the one situation will occur that will test the limits of your rig. It may never happen. The wise will be prepared just in case.
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Old 05-16-2019, 04:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by xrated View Post
My personnel favorite, when they know they are overloaded but not willing or acknowledge it is......"I hardly know it's back there" That's one of those..."When their lips are moving, you know they're lying" statements.
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Originally Posted by MattHelm21 View Post
Add me to this too. I hardly know it is back there when Im stopped at a traffic light.

I know I will get flamed for this one!!

I will state there is a BIG difference between towing a TT near, at, or over ratings, than towing a 5er over ratings!

I will say there were many times towing our 12,300# 5er with our 2001 Ram 2500 1,700# over GVWR, "I didn't know it was back there!" This included driving down the interstate, and two lane state highways. Wind on the coast, semis passing both ways the package was solid. If it wasn't I would have gotten rid of the 5er or upgraded the TV sooner.
This is the hard part of convincing someone towing a 5er over GVWR, you just don't notice it, the physics of towing a 5er are SOLID. I can't ever remember feeling being affected by wind, this included driving south on 101 exposed directly to gale force winds off of the Pacific.

Now those towing a TT at or near max ratings start having problems with sway, complain of ill handling in light winds, long TT and passing semi's push. You just don't see this with 5th wheels.

This is why we are seeing more and more towing 5er's with 1/2 ton pickups. Are they over GVWR most likely except for maybe the F150's with the Max/Max package, do they feel it when towing, not likely.
It scares me that most likely some are exceeding tire ratings and are not aware of it.

The only times I knew my 5er was back there was climbing hills as it was a manual and I needed to drop a gear and put my foot in it, and getting going from a stop, with 3.55's and about 300 hp, I did need to wind it a bit to get to speed. Coming down those hills, PacBrake kept the speed in check without needing the service brakes.

Yes, I am much happier with the 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, but the 2001 Ram 2500 did the job well. This is why many towing 5er over GVWR state "I Don't Even Know It Is Back There!"
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:51 AM   #35
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Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:17 AM   #36
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I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:28 AM   #37
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I have a 3500 DRW GMC pulling a 3602 Raptor that weighs in at 15K.

For the "i don't even know that it is back there" crowd, i say BS. My TV is more than ample to pull my 5vr and I can tell you that you always know that is is back there. Whether it being going up or down hills/mountains, towing in crosswinds, being passed by a semi or my frequent stops for diesel fuel. Yea, anyone that tows know that the trailer is back there, regardless if the complete tow rig is in spec or not.

I am of the opinion that anyone that makes that statement is simply attempting a defense mechanism for knowing that they are towing outside the parameters of the rig that they are operating. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:36 AM   #38
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As most of you know, I recently bought another brand and I am a member there also, plus three of the facebook pages pertaining to the brand, model and exact model number that I have. If you think it's BAD here, to use an old phrase....."You ain't seen nothin yet". At least on here, folks will come on and ask opinions about their truck/trailer combo and many times, after many of us offer up why it is not adequate (or it may be), they get the message and proceed to do what they can to rectify their under sized tow vehicle. On the facebook pages,the ones that inquire, are sometimes open to listening about why their combo is undersized. But just as sure as a few of us (the dreaded weight police) come along and offer up the facts of why they are overloaded, some meat stick (usually a bunch of meat sticks), will post right up behind you and tell them that they need to ignore the weight police because according to them, you need a Dually to pull a pop up camper. One guy I recently tried to set straight has looked at the payload numbers, based on the "maximum towing capacity" for that one ton truck. I tried to explain it was not the correct number to use, that he needed to look on the door sticker for the number for HIS truck....not an ad or brochure. He basically told me I didn't have a clue and that was wrong. Well, I added in some more less than kind remarks and just had to let it go. I swear, there is a metric sh!t ton of stupid over there.....but I keep trying.
I second your comment. On another forum I subscribe to, a forum for a competitor, their top of the line 5th wheels are heavy. One individual weighed in (no pun intended) that he had a 2015 2500 with a diesel engine an a cargo capacity of around 2300 lbs and towed weight of a little over 17,000. The fiver he was looking at put him 700 lbs of pin weight and close to the towed weight dry.
Well, one individual told him that that was close enough and to go for it.
In looking at the specs for the RV my 2016 Ram 3500 SRW with HO Cummins and Aisin transmission would be closed to max on all of the weights so I told the person inquiring about his 2500 working with an RV that should only be towed by a dual wheel truck.
I reminded him about the shark in a movie where Sheriff Brody states they are going to need a bigger boat, and to treat that RV as that shark.
He agreed, he will need a bigger truck.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Russ, flamer or not, I agree with all of what you said other than the "I hardly knew it was back there." This brings us to the age-old discussion of weight distribution hitches, anti-sway equipment and proper setup. Fifth wheel hitches grouped together still put the king pin at or near the rear axle and don't move while driving. They all perform the same service, just in different configurations. They all perform the same in no wind or in high wind within reason. Not so for WDH's. Towing a 32' Bullet with a WDH costing $280 vs a WDH system costing $1200 is like night and day.
See? Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Less pain than a flu shot...
Agreed. A Hensley or Propride certainly levels the playing field a bit...
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:25 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Mad Cow View Post
I have often wondered why, if some has an idea they will be actually hauling and towing (even lighter towing), that they don't just get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton pickup. I have found, in many cases, that one can get a well spec'd 3/4 ton for the same or even less price than a well spec'd 1/2 ton. Pricing is all about what the market will bear and volume of sales. The 1/2 tons are not nearly the value for the dollar that the 3/4 tons are. And we would have fewer of these types of discussions if some folks invested their money better and sought out the best value.
To carry that step one further, why stop at a 250/2500 if getting a diesel, they are heavy and with a Max GVWR of 10K they have a limited payload.
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