Looking at the Passport 175bh

[ryanw]

Hello!

I'm new to the forum but this would be my second TT. Has anyone purchased the 2017 Passport 175bh? I really like the lay out but I'm concerned after reading reviews from other Keystone owners about quality issues. Has your experience been positive or negative with Keystone?

Thanks!

[busterbrown]

Passports and Bullets are 2 of keystones entry lines that are all designed and built on an "affordability" business model. These light weight trailers are also generally lower in build quality; construction quality is sacrificed to achieve the lower weight. You "ain't" buying an Airstream.

In the RV business, quality control is marginal at best. National standards really don't exist. As I've read many times, materials and effort (hours to build) determine price points, not quality of manufacturing. In fact, most brands are build on the same lipport frames, ride on the same dexter axles, and use the same materials/components on the roof, floors, walls, and windows. Based on if a unit was built on a Monday or Friday may be a factor in quality. But I'm sure many initial problems can be coughed up to bad luck.

The forums are loaded with quality concerns from customers buying expensive models and brands which have been serviced more after delivery than let's say, an affordable Keystone Passport 175bh. Case in point, I purchased a Bullet model about 9 months ago, spent almost 50 nights in it within that time with my young family. Approximately 5,000 miles later, my unit hasn't seen a dealer's lot or service technician. An outstanding recall on AC wiring is all that needs to be addressed this spring. As with any vehicle, the more options there are, the more there is to fail. Having no slide on that Passport will give you peace of mind when it comes to seals, cable systems, and motors...something you'll never need serviced.

[Tbos]

Do a very thorough PDI before you bring it home. Let them fix everything and then enjoy. I'm in my 2nd Passport TT.


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[ctbruce]

First, welcome to the forum. Second, you read about problems more than good things because the folks with no problems are out enjoying and have nothing to write about, other than posting pictures of their great camp sites and adventures. My Impact has had zero problems. But I did a 2 hour PDI with it and saw every system work before I drove off. My dealer did a PRE-PDI to make sure it was ready to go. I couldn't be more pleased.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[BirchyBoy]

As everyone else has said, you may have some problems and a good PDI is worth the time and effort. Catch anything you can prior to delivery and it behooves the dealer to correct them quickly so they can get paid. After delivery, plan on trying to resolve as much as you can yourself, if possible. Most any trip to the dealer for service will be a very time-consuming endeavor. I had a few issues with my Passport, and I waited until it was the off-season and then took it in for everything at once.

[marcortez]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

Passports and Bullets are 2 of keystones entry lines that are all designed and built on an "affordability" business model. These light weight trailers are also generally lower in build quality; construction quality is sacrificed to achieve the lower weight.

I am not sure I agree with this.....respectfully.

Someone reading this would think that "lower in build quality" would be bad welds, inferior screws, wood portions cut haphazard, bolts not tightened, sealant gaps, mouldings not secure, vinyl flooring cut askew, gaps in seams and any of the normal "construction" techniques shortcutted or sloppily installed to save a buck.

I don't think that Keystone, or any other RV manufacturer, assembles these RV's with cost cutting, time saving and sloppy workmanship as a matter of a pre planned business model and the trained method of construction.


I can't imagine the aluminum frame welds on a Passport is of any less workmanship quality than a top of line model in the next bay.
Construction foremen telling the welder to cut it short on a weld for that Passport but do a good job on the top of the line model, to save a buck seems unreasonable.
Color me naive perhaps?

It may have to do with the quality of each component installed, rather than the manner of actually putting it all together.
A plastic sink instead of SS, a plastic toilet instead of porcelain, a lower grade of vinyl than top of the line, less expensive carpet rather than a Saxony plush, a lower quality mattress, particle board instead of solid wood, basic faucets instead of highly polished designer ones.....and on and on.

Quality components, by the very nature of being "quality" are more often than not, heavier, denser, thicker and can withstand use better than lesser components.

Merry Christmas to all....

[busterbrown]

Originally Posted by marcortez

Someone reading this would think that "lower in build quality" would be bad welds, inferior screws, wood portions cut haphazard, bolts not tightened, sealant gaps, mouldings not secure, vinyl flooring cut askew, gaps in seams and any of the normal "construction" techniques shortcutted or sloppily installed to save a buck.

I'm "someone" and would NEVER assume that "build quality" is reflective of a manufacturer attempting to cut corners in ultra lights "with bad welds, inferior screws, haphazard wood cuts, etc." I would, however, assume that the manufacturer use thinner, light-weight materials to insulated walls, windows, and floors, float exterior rear walls, and make roof strutures non-walkable. I would also assume that manufacturers "plastic-tize" more interior components, eliminate solid surface counter-tops, mate axles and tires to within narrow margins of gross vehicle weight ratings, exclude front and rear fiberglass caps, and skimp on interior finishings.

To make it more clear to those who have doubts, take a ride over to your friendly Kia dealer and test drive one of their mid size sedans. Then head out to your local Mercedes-Benz dealer and get your bum planted in one of their mid-size cars. If you bought either one, I'm sure each would deliver you from point A to point B. However, okay...point belabored. Nuff said.

Lower build quality has so MUCH more do with the forementioned than with "inferior screws" or "bad welds". I know this first hand as I met a Keystone RV Company rep at our local show several months ago. He validated the differences in how they engineer, build, and market a $17K trailer verses a $40K trailer.

[Tbos]

I can gladly say my Passports have not any Quality issues. Did I have to tighten some water system junctions to stop a leak? Yes, but that is not uncommon. Sometimes it's a mistake by an installer but in my case it was a result of a vibration. Had it been tighter in the beginning it may not have been an issue but they were easy fixes. Have I had to do other maintenance tasks? Yes, but that comes with whatever you buy. There is at least one other 1750 owner on the forum. You might want to touch base with them. Have fun and post pictures when you finally decide and pick one up.

[JRTJH]

One "trap" that people tend to fall into is confusing "QUALITY" with "CRAFTSMANSHIP", then you can add engineering, design, durability, reliability, construction techniques, material type, frame type, and a host of other "monikers" that probably don't mean much when seen "alone" but added together can make a significant difference in "price point".

Take for example, the Hideout travel trailer line is constructed with .020 and .024 gauge aluminum siding (not FILON) which is attached to a WOODEN frame (not welded aluminum) using "hurricane straps" (not screws and bolts) to hold things in place. Add plastic (not metal) faucets, lighter and narrower "I beam frames", single axle (not tandem) a single 20 pound propane tank, a "slab foam mattress" (not "inferior grade" coil springs) vinyl coated 1/8" luan interior walls with 1" spun fiberglass insulation (not laminated luan/foam/FILON sidewalls), "slab MDF" cabinet doors (not "wood framed or solid core doors), the list goes on and on.....

Add lack of options (it's much cheaper to not have to slow down the line to add or subtract optional equipment) and you can build each unit for less "man-hours".

Does all of this make for an "inferior trailer?" No, it makes for a "CHEAPER" trailer. The saws, staples, screws, glue, tolerances of cuts, "CRAFTSMANSHIP" are essentially the same whether the crew is assembling a Montana or a Hideout. The "quick quality inspection" is done by the same "hourly wage employee" and quite often, crews are moved around the plant to fill in where needed to meet demand or to supplement where manpower is needed, so a "Montana cabinet maker" may be fabricating Hideout cabinet doors on any given day, or a Hideout electrician may be wiring Cougar trailers on a Friday afternoon.

So, while there are significant differences in "quality of materials" that are used, the CRAFTSMANSHIP and the "expectation of fit/finish" is pretty much the same throughout the plant. From my "very few visits" to the plant (on the same kind of visitor tours everyone else gets) I've seen the same level of care being used to build Hideout, Cougar, Montana, Avalanche and Outback trailers.

I'll admit, when you stand inside a Hideout and look around, it seems "pretty nice". But, when you walk out of it and walk into a Montana, you can see a significant difference. Not in the "gaps at mitered corners" but when your toes get caught in the thicker carpet, it's an unavoidable difference...... Then when you look up at the dual roof mounted heat pump air conditioners with ducting and think back to the Hideout's "window unit mounted in the sidewall", the cost differences become very apparent. Both will function as a travel trailer, but one will offer much more "user friendly features" and the cost will most definitely reflect those extras....


From my perspective (for what it's worth), a Hideout is no more likely to "shake, rattle and fall apart" when towed down the highway than any other trailer. They are assembled to be as safe (maybe not as comfortable) as any other trailer on the market.

It's a "good thing" (I think) that less expensive trailers are available, for many reasons. Consider that some people can't justify the expense based on income, family situations, amount of time available to use the investment, other obligations, the list just grows. But to have a means for any family who chooses a travel trailer to be able to enjoy the lifestyle, well that makes any "price point trailer" a valuable asset, at least to me it does...

[marcortez]

Originally Posted by busterbrown

I'm "someone" and would NEVER assume that "build quality" is reflective of a manufacturer attempting to cut corners in ultra lights "with bad welds, inferior screws, haphazard wood cuts, etc." I would, however, assume that the manufacturer use thinner, light-weight materials to insulated walls, windows, and floors, float exterior rear walls, and make roof strutures non-walkable. I would also assume that manufacturers "plastic-tize" more interior components, eliminate solid surface counter-tops, mate axles and tires to within narrow margins of gross vehicle weight ratings, exclude front and rear fiberglass caps, and skimp on interior finishings.

To make it more clear to those who have doubts, take a ride over to your friendly Kia dealer and test drive one of their mid size sedans. Then head out to your local Mercedes-Benz dealer and get your bum planted in one of their mid-size cars. If you bought either one, I'm sure each would deliver you from point A to point B. However, okay...point belabored. Nuff said.

Lower build quality has so MUCH more do with the forementioned than with "inferior screws" or "bad welds". I know this first hand as I met a Keystone RV Company rep at our local show several months ago. He validated the differences in how they engineer, build, and market a $17K trailer verses a $40K trailer.

Thanks....

But I think we could agree that installing, not installing or deleting or adding a higher grade of components does not equal the actual "construction quality" of workers who fit and assemble those various components.

When I first read your post, that is what leaped out at me.....
I my wildest imagination, I can't fathom a welder laying a bead of aluminum welding and skipping every other six inches to save time and ultimately, money, when on a higher end model, that bead is contiguous.

It's like a Ford F series truck.....one can get the low end XL model with vinyl seats and floorboards, or a King Ranch and get plush plus.
But they're all assembled with the same standard methods, including nuts and bolts, welding rods, wiring looms and adhesive compounds.

Quality control does seem lacking and it appears RV manufacturers send them out the door and expect the dealer to rework any gaps or faults on delivery and if the dealer does not catch those, the burden goes to the buyer to discover them.

I think there is a need for a construction foreman along every facet of building a RV, (if not one now) who has the power to direct a worker to redo his or her work on the spot and if that worker is frequently ordered to redo, he/she gets put in the parts bin rather than the assembly line.
Premium components or economy components.....all should be assembled without concern for low or high end customers.
Whether that happens or not, I just don't know.

In the end, I feel management needs to step it up sharply with QC issues.
Only we the consumer can force this by taking our business elsewhere.

Happy Holidays

[marcortez]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

One "trap" that people tend to fall into is confusing "QUALITY" with "CRAFTSMANSHIP", then you can add engineering, design, durability, reliability, construction techniques, material type, frame type, and a host of other "monikers" that probably don't mean much when seen "alone" but added together can make a significant difference in "price point".

Take for example, the Hideout travel trailer line is constructed with .020 and .024 gauge aluminum siding (not FILON) which is attached to a WOODEN frame (not welded aluminum) using "hurricane straps" (not screws and bolts) to hold things in place. Add plastic (not metal) faucets, lighter and narrower "I beam frames", single axle (not tandem) a single 20 pound propane tank, a "slab foam mattress" (not "inferior grade" coil springs) vinyl coated 1/8" luan interior walls with 1" spun fiberglass insulation (not laminated luan/foam/FILON sidewalls), "slab MDF" cabinet doors (not "wood framed or solid core doors), the list goes on and on.....

Add lack of options (it's much cheaper to not have to slow down the line to add or subtract optional equipment) and you can build each unit for less "man-hours".

Does all of this make for an "inferior trailer?" No, it makes for a "CHEAPER" trailer. The saws, staples, screws, glue, tolerances of cuts, "CRAFTSMANSHIP" are essentially the same whether the crew is assembling a Montana or a Hideout. The "quick quality inspection" is done by the same "hourly wage employee" and quite often, crews are moved around the plant to fill in where needed to meet demand or to supplement where manpower is needed, so a "Montana cabinet maker" may be fabricating Hideout cabinet doors on any given day, or a Hideout electrician may be wiring Cougar trailers on a Friday afternoon.

So, while there are significant differences in "quality of materials" that are used, the CRAFTSMANSHIP and the "expectation of fit/finish" is pretty much the same throughout the plant. From my "very few visits" to the plant (on the same kind of visitor tours everyone else gets) I've seen the same level of care being used to build Hideout, Cougar, Montana, Avalanche and Outback trailers.

I'll admit, when you stand inside a Hideout and look around, it seems "pretty nice". But, when you walk out of it and walk into a Montana, you can see a significant difference. Not in the "gaps at mitered corners" but when your toes get caught in the thicker carpet, it's an unavoidable difference...... Then when you look up at the dual roof mounted heat pump air conditioners with ducting and think back to the Hideout's "window unit mounted in the sidewall", the cost differences become very apparent. Both will function as a travel trailer, but one will offer much more "user friendly features" and the cost will most definitely reflect those extras....


From my perspective (for what it's worth), a Hideout is no more likely to "shake, rattle and fall apart" when towed down the highway than any other trailer. They are assembled to be as safe (maybe not as comfortable) as any other trailer on the market.

It's a "good thing" (I think) that less expensive trailers are available, for many reasons. Consider that some people can't justify the expense based on income, family situations, amount of time available to use the investment, other obligations, the list just grows. But to have a means for any family who chooses a travel trailer to be able to enjoy the lifestyle, well that makes any "price point trailer" a valuable asset, at least to me it does...

I know that "like" button is here someplace?

[Treebs]

Just purchased the 2017 175BH. We looked at many similar models due to the fact we were limited to 5000lb TV capacity. I must say we were quite impressed with the overall build quality and features compared to other manufacturers.
We haven't been out to camp in it yet but we did a thorough PDI and are quite satisfied with our decision.

[Tbos]

Originally Posted by Treebs

Just purchased the 2017 175BH. We looked at many similar models due to the fact we were limited to 5000lb TV capacity. I must say we were quite impressed with the overall build quality and features compared to other manufacturers.

We haven't been out to camp in it yet but we did a thorough PDI and are quite satisfied with our decision.

Enjoy your new rig. Have fun and post pictures when you can.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2014 Silverado 1500 LT in Deep Forest Green

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by marcortez

I know that "like" button is here someplace?

It's only on the forum website, not in Tapatalk. Unfortunate....

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2015 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ
WELL....THAT WAS FUN!

[koko]

The floorplan looks really nice. To us, that's one of the most important aspects of any trailer. We've had to anchor shelves, repair drawers, rework dead spaces...that is an issue with any trailer, no matter what the cost. You can't rework the floorplan. Don't let anyone snob you out of your choice. There's always one better and one worse out there, and money is the object!

[rfinley]

Not your model but we just traded our 2011 3220BH this past week. it had two slides both cable. The issues we had in 6 years were all petty stuff like replacing the plastic sink faucets, plastic storage door latches, etc. Original no good China tires lasted to last year when I changed them due to age. I also used that "boat trailer" (not anything like Bearing Buddies that I use on my boat trailer !!) poorly designed EZLube system as per the manufacturers directions without any blown seals or greased brakes. So we had a wonderful experience with our Passport. Hope you have as much enjoyment with yours as we did ours !!! I think you will like it !!

[xjbeast96]

just picked up Passport 175BH We love it

[silverbullet18]

Congrats and enjoy!!


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[Johnny5]

We bought the 175bh. We have noticed a few things off. First one of the lights outside was wired wrong and the light always stayed on. Also we found the bunk bed had been screwed down on top of the blind cord so you couldn't shut the blind. The thermostat was almost impossible to turn on and off. All around messy left overs from construction saw dust plugs from holes cut etc.. very disappointed.

[JRTJH]

Johnny5,

All of those problems "should have" been identified and repaired by the dealership during their inspection before you bought the trailer. Additionally, they should have vacuumed and cleaned the inside prior to delivery. Did you do a PDI upon purchase? Hopefully the dealership has repaired your problems and you're on your way to some "troublefree camping"... Good Luck