Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Fleet | Keystone RV Models > Fifth Wheels
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2017, 05:53 AM   #21
CaptnJohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Ocean Isle Beach
Posts: 1,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJdudette View Post
Thanks everyone for your help, I really learned quite a bit. You'd all be shaking your head with what I've been towing it with. Camping World should have never sold me that trailer.
We all must 1st understand very few camper sales people and truck sales people camp! I watched a customer tell a CW salesperson he was full of it and stomp off when the salesman told him he would need more truck. The customer said he did not know what he was talking about as the truck salesman told him his 2500 diesel could pull every 5er made. I only deal with the sales manager at Ford dealership where I buy. I educated him on payload and when picking up my F350 had a little meeting with his staff. He located my current truck at another dealership and before the deal asked to have a picture of the yellow sticker emailed and educated the transferring sales manager as to why it was important to me. They should know ~~ but do not. An F250/2500 diesel can pull most but payload comes into the equation for those that camp.
__________________

2022.Montana 3855 BR
2019 F350 6.7 4X4 DRW
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #22
RDB
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hilliard, OHio
Posts: 17
Payload in the brochure is for a strip down model. Accessories add weight and reduces the payload capacity. Expect delivered model w/o sun roof to be 200- 300 less than published, deduct another 200+ for the power sun roof. I went through this exercise when I ordered my F150 in 2012 and will be doing it again when I upgrade to a F350 in a couple of years.
RDB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2017, 03:00 AM   #23
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,308
Kim, with your fiver listing the pin weight as 1700 pound range you would have no reason to look into dually trucks. A bare minimum of 250's and 2500's, certainly more comfortable with a 350 or 3500's. A GMC 3500 dually would simply be overkill in a big way.
__________________
Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
notanlines is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2017, 05:05 AM   #24
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Kim, with your fiver listing the pin weight as 1700 pound range you would have no reason to look into dually trucks. A bare minimum of 250's and 2500's, certainly more comfortable with a 350 or 3500's. A GMC 3500 dually would simply be overkill in a big way.
Gross on that trailer is right at 12K... about the same as my 333MKS and loaded my pin weight is just over 2800... More than a 250/2500 is rated for and I got tired of having to buy a new truck every time the DW wanted a new trailer... so I skipped the SRW 350 altogether and there ain't a difference in the price worth mentioning between the dually and the SRW

I can carry 1/2 a cord of wood with me and not squat the truck...
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2017, 05:24 AM   #25
bagged123
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: The NW Hills of CT
Posts: 87
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by notanlines View Post
Kim, with your fiver listing the pin weight as 1700 pound range you would have no reason to look into dually trucks. A bare minimum of 250's and 2500's, certainly more comfortable with a 350 or 3500's. A GMC 3500 dually would simply be overkill in a big way.
No new 2500 can still tow that fiver unless you get a bare bones 2500. I had a '16 CC Durmax 2500 with a payload of 2400, by the time I put the hitch in, fuel, people, etc. it would've been over. Better off getting a 3500 just for the payload capabilities.
__________________
Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
bagged123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2017, 08:57 AM   #26
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
I have a 2015 F250 Lariat diesel 4x4 short bed crew cab. The GVW is "legally mandated" at 10,000 pounds and the payload is 2200 pounds. My fifth wheel is a 2014 Cougar XLite 27RKS with an "advertised" pin weight of 1230. The last CAT scale weights (ready for a trip) were:

Front axle: 4227
Rear axle: 5696
Trailer axle: 7616

Truck weight: 9933
Trailer weight: 9436

So, what does all of this mean? At least in my situation, my F250 (which admittedly is heavy with options from the factory) is at it's MAXIMUM GVW with a trailer that "specs out" with an advertised pin weight of 1230 pounds. Keep in mind that the 27RKS is a "rear kitchen model" which means that a significant part of the trailer weight (and storage) is located BEHIND the axles, making the pin "weigh light" for travel.

Without going to the "it's the same truck as an F350 argument" (I don't want to go there), my F250 is "maxed out" with a trailer that's significantly smaller than the OP's 2016 Cougar 288RLS which "specs out empty" with a pin weight that's 500 pounds heavier than my empty pin weight. Given the kitchen in the 288 is above/forward of the axle with minimal storage aft of the axle, the pin weight is very likely to be significantly heavier than just that 500 pounds. That will put her trailer, towed with a similar F250, significantly above the established GVW of 10,000 pounds.

Will an F250 tow it? Heck yes, especially a diesel model. A gas model will be at the GCWR and max trailer ratings, but the power is there to significantly improve towing over her current vehicle, which I believe is an F150, which I would guess is significantly overloaded.

So, is it "possible to tow" ??? Yup
Is it responsible to tow" ??? NOPE, if anything should happen, the lawyers could easily have a field day with the weight..... Your views may differ, ain't life grand that way.......
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2017, 11:11 AM   #27
larry337
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lagrange OH
Posts: 446
I always tell people to skip the 3/4 ton and go straight to a one ton. The difference in ride and price are negligible. They both come on a short bed if necessary so size isn't a factor. The only possible reason is if registration in your state is considerably more or it it's too high to fit in your garage. But we're beating a dead horse over and over. [emoji13]

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
__________________


2017 Ford F350
2015 Cougar 337FLS
larry337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 08:25 PM   #28
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
F-350 10,000 Lb Limit

There are many F-350 trucks built/shipped with the 10,000 lb limit. (same as the F-250) Buying a F-350 does not necessarily get you more weight carrying or towing capabilities. The 2017 Ford Fleet trailer towing guide highlights the configurations. It is also a great source for towing/loading information

http://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/

First post here, closing a deal on a Laredo 325RL Looking around for a new TV and have run into several F-350's with the 10,000 GVWR. This is a DOT thing for License compliance.
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2017, 08:43 PM   #29
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJdudette View Post
I think I'm reading the guide correctly.

F-250 CC SRW 4WD - 6.2L V-8 - 3.73 Electronic locking axel = 12,100 lbs (I orig said 12,500)
Part of your issue is you are looking at a gas engine with a 3.73 gear ratio. The dealer can increase the tow rating by installing 4.10's or 4.30 gears. The ability to pull is HP/Torque and gears, the ability to carry is springs, tires, and wheels.

I would suggest if you want to feel good about numbers, get a F350 SRW with 4.30 gears and be happy.
The other thing you could do is get a F250, and forget the GVWR and go by axle ratings. You would also be better with a 4.10 or 4.30 gear ratio. That choice is yours only.

I will state I carry/tow a 5er slightly larger than what you are looking at with our 2001 Ram 2500, without an issue, just over my GVWR.

__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 07:57 AM   #30
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
There are many F-350 trucks built/shipped with the 10,000 lb limit. (same as the F-250) Buying a F-350 does not necessarily get you more weight carrying or towing capabilities. The 2017 Ford Fleet trailer towing guide highlights the configurations. It is also a great source for towing/loading information

http://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/

First post here, closing a deal on a Laredo 325RL Looking around for a new TV and have run into several F-350's with the 10,000 GVWR. This is a DOT thing for License compliance.
Buying a F350 with a 10,000 pound GVW is purely a tax/registration issue. It's a way to "de-rate" the truck to avoid commercial tax rates in states that regulate truck taxes by weight capacity. In those situations, the truck is "capable but not legal" to carry the same weights as one with a 11,500 pound weight. The "de-rated GVW" allows buyers who want that model truck and don't have a need for the full weight rated GVW capacity". The F250/F350 model situation is much the same, basically a "fender badge" issue as well. There's very little difference in the two trucks from a "capacity to carry weight" issue. Unfortunately, some people use it as a way to "cheat the tax rate".

I use the example of hunting licenses to compare. You can buy a basic small game license which allows you to carry a gun in the woods and hunt squirrel/rabbits. Should you hunt with a 12 gauge shotgun, you carry the capacity to harvest a deer (if you walk up on one), have the equipment capacity to be successful, but don't have the license to do so legally. If you pull the trigger and take a deer, you face issues of hunting illegally. You do so against the moral and legal limits of your license (hunter registration). You'll be prosecuted if you're caught in that situation.

It's the same with trucks. Whether the equipment has the capacity to carry the weight or not, the license/registration limits the ability to use that capacity. You're limited by the 10,000 pound limit "legally and morally" and will suffer the consequences if you ignore your "legal limits" if anything happens and you get caught.....

Some people simply don't care about those "legal/moral" limits and choose to ignore them because "the truck is the same as...." Only you can choose whether it's appropriate for you to do so.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 09:09 AM   #31
CWSWine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 308
I asked the GMC midwest area factory fleet manager about loading over GVWR and loading to Axle ratings and also the 2500/3500 issue. He said there was a lot of internet engineers putting out a lot of bad information. He sent me the link below and stated this is our official/legal position of GMC and what you can expect if you end up in court.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/u...ht-rating.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
There are many F-350 trucks built/shipped with the 10,000 lb limit. (same as the F-250) Buying a F-350 does not necessarily get you more weight carrying or towing capabilities. The 2017 Ford Fleet trailer towing guide highlights the configurations. It is also a great source for towing/loading information

http://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/

First post here, closing a deal on a Laredo 325RL Looking around for a new TV and have run into several F-350's with the 10,000 GVWR. This is a DOT thing for License compliance.
__________________
Current
2017 Fleetwood Discovery 40D Class A Diesel Pusher
Past
2016 GMC Denila 1 ton Diesel CC 3722
2017 Grand Design Solitude 310GK-R
Montana 3711FL Front Living Room 5er
CWSWine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #32
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Buying a F350 with a 10,000 pound GVW is purely a tax/registration issue. It's a way to "de-rate" the truck to avoid commercial tax rates in states that regulate truck taxes by weight capacity. In those situations, the truck is "capable but not legal" to carry the same weights as one with a 11,500 pound weight. The "de-rated GVW" allows buyers who want that model truck and don't have a need for the full weight rated GVW capacity". The F250/F350 model situation is much the same, basically a "fender badge" issue as well. There's very little difference in the two trucks from a "capacity to carry weight" issue. Unfortunately, some people use it as a way to "cheat the tax rate".

I use the example of hunting licenses to compare. You can buy a basic small game license which allows you to carry a gun in the woods and hunt squirrel/rabbits. Should you hunt with a 12 gauge shotgun, you carry the capacity to harvest a deer (if you walk up on one), have the equipment capacity to be successful, but don't have the license to do so legally. If you pull the trigger and take a deer, you face issues of hunting illegally. You do so against the moral and legal limits of your license (hunter registration). You'll be prosecuted if you're caught in that situation.

It's the same with trucks. Whether the equipment has the capacity to carry the weight or not, the license/registration limits the ability to use that capacity. You're limited by the 10,000 pound limit "legally and morally" and will suffer the consequences if you ignore your "legal limits" if anything happens and you get caught.....

Some people simply don't care about those "legal/moral" limits and choose to ignore them because "the truck is the same as...." Only you can choose whether it's appropriate for you to do so.
I agree with everything you state, but you are not considering the Federal DOT licensing requirements for commercial use. A large amount of F-350 are purchased for commercial use and the DOT requirement for DOT licensed drivers is 10,001 lb or over. So the auto industry offers 10,000 lb stickers on larger trucks so the industry can use non CDL drivers, Like snowplow drivers.

What I am trying to say is this crazy law affects us non commercial users and I would hate to see someone blindly purchase a F-350 with the 10,000 GVW sticker on the door frame when they thought it had the 11500 lb sticker.
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2017, 09:39 AM   #33
larry337
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lagrange OH
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
I agree with everything you state, but you are not considering the Federal DOT licensing requirements for commercial use. A large amount of F-350 are purchased for commercial use and the DOT requirement for DOT licensed drivers is 10,001 lb or over. So the auto industry offers 10,000 lb stickers on larger trucks so the industry can use non CDL drivers, Like snowplow drivers.

What I am trying to say is this crazy law affects us non commercial users and I would hate to see someone blindly purchase a F-350 with the 10,000 GVW sticker on the door frame when they thought it had the 11500 lb sticker.
As a CDL holder myself I can tell you that the limit is 26,000 lbs not 10,000. And it only applies if you are doing work for hire, in other words commercially. There is no CDL requirement for personal use. Now some states have initiated they're own recreational version of a CDL but it had nothing to do with DOT or federal law.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
__________________


2017 Ford F350
2015 Cougar 337FLS
larry337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 05:11 PM   #34
Cabindweller
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
I just bought a new 3500HD. The cost difference between it and the 2500 was small. For a slight increase in cost I got a lot more truck. I'd bypass the 250 for that reason alone.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ

I couldn't agree more with this.
__________________
2016 Cougar 336BHS

2017 F350 SuperDuty - Lariat, Crew Cab, PowerStroke, SRW, 4x4
Cabindweller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 05:34 PM   #35
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Part of y'alls problem is you're talking about "F"350. Change that "F" to a RAM 3500 and the GVWR is 12,300.
My loaded RAM 3500 Laramie 4X4 (except sunroof) payload is 4,018.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 05:37 PM   #36
Javi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 5,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
Part of y'alls problem is you're talking about "F"350. Change that "F" to a RAM 3500 and the GVWR is 12,300.
My loaded RAM 3500 Laramie 4X4 (except sunroof) payload is 4,018.
And my "F" 350 has a payload of 6062 and a GVWR of 14,000 pounds
__________________
2015 Ford F350 DRW 6.7 Diesel XL
2020 Avalanche 313 RS
Javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2017, 07:17 PM   #37
gearhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Liberty, Texas
Posts: 5,021
Yeah yeah. Ram dually is the same thing.
__________________
2018 Ram 3500 Laramie CC DRW LWB 4X4 Cummins Aisin 3.73
Reese Goosebox 20K
2018 Heartland Landmark 365 Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4 LB Cabover
gearhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2017, 05:56 AM   #38
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce View Post
I just bought a new 3500HD. The cost difference between it and the 2500 was small. For a slight increase in cost I got a lot more truck. I'd bypass the 250 for that reason alone.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabindweller View Post
I couldn't agree more with this.
Well I respectfully disagree with these statements.

First let me state if buying new Chip did the right thing and bought the 3500 SRW, and got the reassurance of the higher listed GVWR. I would chose the 3500 over a 2500 if buying new for sure.

That said, if the badges on the doors, and the VIN and Payload stickers were removed I doubt that Chip could tell the difference between the 2500 and 3500 SRW, all the same parts with possibly the exception of the rear springs. Same frame, same engine, same drive train. That and maybe you would need to order an optional tire on the 2500.

If the 3500 was a DRW I would agree 100% the DRW would make a big difference.

Now waiting for all the fallout!!
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 04:49 PM   #39
ctbruce
Site Team | Emeritus
 
ctbruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Well I respectfully disagree with these statements.

First let me state if buying new Chip did the right thing and bought the 3500 SRW, and got the reassurance of the higher listed GVWR. I would chose the 3500 over a 2500 if buying new for sure.

That said, if the badges on the doors, and the VIN and Payload stickers were removed I doubt that Chip could tell the difference between the 2500 and 3500 SRW, all the same parts with possibly the exception of the rear springs. Same frame, same engine, same drive train. That and maybe you would need to order an optional tire on the 2500.

If the 3500 was a DRW I would agree 100% the DRW would make a big difference.

Now waiting for all the fallout!!
Yep new. Could of had the 2500 but never really considered it. My sites were always set on the 3500.

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Fuzion Impact 312
2017 3500HD Silverado LTZ
__________________

Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
ctbruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fifth wheel, tow

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.