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02-14-2018, 10:24 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Heater issues
I have a 2015 fifth wheel carbon. I have a propane heater. When hooked into shore power it works fine. When running off battery my rig fills with carbon monoxide. What on earth is the reason for this???
Thanks!
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02-14-2018, 10:44 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,339
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Is it setting off the detector? If it’s a combo LP/carbon monoxide detector then it’s possible that the battery(s) are weak enough to drop below the threshold. If I remember right, it’s about 11.5VDC, May be enough to spin the furnace fan but not enough to stay above the threshold.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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02-14-2018, 11:38 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Your furnace is 12 volt regardless if hooked to shore power, if on shore power it's running off the converter which is also charging the batteries, hopefully.
My guess is you have weak batteries as they will chirp the LP/CO sensor.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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02-14-2018, 12:05 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
Your furnace is 12 volt regardless if hooked to shore power, if on shore power it's running off the converter which is also charging the batteries, hopefully.
My guess is you have weak batteries as they will chirp the LP/CO sensor.
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It is a definite smell and not a faulty sensor. Doesn’t happen on shore power and does on battery.
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02-14-2018, 12:06 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
Is it setting off the detector? If it’s a combo LP/carbon monoxide detector then it’s possible that the battery(s) are weak enough to drop below the threshold. If I remember right, it’s about 11.5VDC, May be enough to spin the furnace fan but not enough to stay above the threshold.
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Can you please explain “threshold” to me? The batteries would be weakened over the course of the night. If they are, how will this effect the rig in that I smell CM? Thanks!
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02-14-2018, 12:10 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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There's a minimum battery voltage, consider it the "oh crap" voltage where the detector should start alarming. Just like when there is a low battery or power outage at your house with modern smoke detectors.
This "could" be it. I have a 2015 Carbon and unless you've taken a good deal of care of your batteries OR have replaced them recently, then the batteries can easily be toast after a few total discharges.
You should have a battery status indicator. Unplugged from shore power, what does it say about the condition of the battery?
And you smell propane - not carbon monoxide. So something is open, which again, indicates that the furnace is "trying" to do something but cant...
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02-14-2018, 01:15 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
There's a minimum battery voltage, consider it the "oh crap" voltage where the detector should start alarming. Just like when there is a low battery or power outage at your house with modern smoke detectors.
This "could" be it. I have a 2015 Carbon and unless you've taken a good deal of care of your batteries OR have replaced them recently, then the batteries can easily be toast after a few total discharges.
You should have a battery status indicator. Unplugged from shore power, what does it say about the condition of the battery?
And you smell propane - not carbon monoxide. So something is open, which again, indicates that the furnace is "trying" to do something but cant...
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Your last statement makes sense. They are not beeping from loss of power that is for sure. “Trying to do something but can’t” feels like what is happening. I wonder what it could be trying to do that
A: it can do on shore but not battery
B: would cause the unit to smell like propane
C: goes away when I plug back into shore
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02-14-2018, 01:39 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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What is your battery voltage after you've unplugged the rig for a few hours?
I think a few of us "suspect" the battery - because mostly discharged batteries can do all sorts of weird things which wouldn't otherwise be possible.
Maybe someone else can chime in on how the propane valve on the heater should work? Is it a power-to-open thing? IE - does it auto shutoff in a hard power down?
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02-14-2018, 01:46 PM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,339
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For the furnace to operate:
12VDC to control board. First is through the “limit switch” (over heat), after that is the “sail switch”. A long arm that is in the fan housing, takes a minimum amount of air flow to pass that test (switch). After that, power is applied to the gas valve..power to the igniter. Once lit, the flake sensor keeps the valve open until set temp. Once set temp is reached, gas valve is closed and unit goes into “cool down” mode. Fan spins for a predetermined amount of time.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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02-14-2018, 01:59 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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chuckster57, Are the gas valves "normally closed"? Meaning you need active power to keep them open?
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02-14-2018, 02:07 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
chuckster57, Are the gas valves "normally closed"? Meaning you need active power to keep them open?
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Gas valves?
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02-14-2018, 03:36 PM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
chuckster57, Are the gas valves "normally closed"? Meaning you need active power to keep them open?
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That I don’t know.
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02-14-2018, 04:10 PM
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#13
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baguak
Gas valves?
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Just like your house, your furnace in your Rv has valves as well. Why are you unplugging from shore power?
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Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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02-14-2018, 04:30 PM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,995
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The gas valve is "spring loaded" to the closed position (which is its normal state) and requires 12 VDC through the limit switch and the sail switch before voltage is applied to the gas valve to open it. If you think about it, if the gas valve was "normally open" or if it operated in any other way, if you disconnected your battery, the gas valve would open causing a propane leak.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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02-14-2018, 06:57 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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After all the other discussions it still sounds like weak/bad batteries to me.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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02-14-2018, 07:43 PM
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#16
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelin texans
After all the other discussions it still sounds like weak/bad batteries to me.
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I agree. Based on the OP's first post: "When hooked into shore power it works fine. When running off battery my rig fills with carbon monoxide"
It sounds like what he is saying is that with the converter supplying power, everything works as it should, when he unplugs, the battery voltage is lower than it should be, the furnace draws that down even more and the Carbon Monoxide detector (which is connected to battery power) alarms because of low voltage. The rig can't be "filled with carbon monoxide" while on battery and working properly when on shore power, the furnace fire box doesn't know which power source is being used and that's the primary source of CO for that appliance.....
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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02-14-2018, 08:13 PM
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#17
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,685
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Although it's been covered, I'll have to chime in here and say batteries. The OP needs to do a thorough inspection of them and let us know what state they are in.
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Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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02-15-2018, 05:31 AM
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#18
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
There's a minimum battery voltage, consider it the "oh crap" voltage where the detector should start alarming. Just like when there is a low battery or power outage at your house with modern smoke detectors.
This "could" be it. I have a 2015 Carbon and unless you've taken a good deal of care of your batteries OR have replaced them recently, then the batteries can easily be toast after a few total discharges.
You should have a battery status indicator. Unplugged from shore power, what does it say about the condition of the battery?
And you smell propane - not carbon monoxide. So something is open, which again, indicates that the furnace is "trying" to do something but cant...
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This is correct as CO is colorless and odorless hence the "silent killer" label.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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02-15-2018, 06:04 AM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
Although it's been covered, I'll have to chime in here and say batteries. The OP needs to do a thorough inspection of them and let us know what state they are in.
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When I disconnected power and tested two batteries registered 13 volts while the third registered 12.
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02-15-2018, 06:06 AM
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#20
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy
This is correct as CO is colorless and odorless hence the "silent killer" label.
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I agree with the CO comment. I just noticed it is a CO/propane alarm and when it went off I didn’t realize which light was on. I am going to assume propane from the the comments in the thread.
Simone else pointed out the power needed for valves to switch over or something like that. I think the rig just ran out of enough power perhaps.
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