Truck for 2017 Cougar Xlite 28RDB

[the sodfather]

Originally Posted by Frank G

I made the above statement quite seriously. My 2500 with full tank and bed rails weighs in at 8,200 lbs. add 1,050 lbs for passengers and hitch and we have 9,250 lbs actual loaded truck weight leaving just 750 lbs. for pin weight. That 750 lbs does not include the self inflected safety margin some are calling for. This is why I said what I said. A 250/2500 can not pull anything but the smallest RV Legally, and you have to be careful with a 350/3500 srw especially if it came with a down rated sticker.

Yes, a friend of mine ended up with a 350 with a 10,000 lb sticker. He is in worse shape than I am.

I am not advocating anyone exceed the stickers on the vehicle or the tow information as provided by the manufacture.

Let's see. My previous 1500 payload was 1681 lbs. and my current 2500 payload is 2755 lbs. Pulling my TT 272 Bullet is night and day difference between the two. My family goes down the road safely and WAY more efficiently. I'm sure every situation is different but in this case, I cannot agree with your statement.

[Outback 325BH]

Originally Posted by BlackNoir

Wow! Thanks for all the great advice! So i've scratched the 150 off the list!



If I'm reading everything correctly, then as an example, the Ford F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 with a long box and 4.3 axle ratio has a GCWR of 22,000 and GVWR of 10,000, so this would probably be the minimum I would want to go? And again, this is just an example that i picked, final call is probably with the wife (DW=Dear Wife?) and kids, once i give them a few models to pick from that meet the required criteria. Its doubtful we'll go new either so these values won't coincide with what we look at but it gives me a better understanding of what to look for.



Another example is a 2011 ram 2500 which is roughly 8900 gvwr and gcwr of 20,000. This seems like it might just squeak by? if i'm right, this gives me ~1000 lbs of cargo in the truck itself, which includes gas, passengers and gear we want to load in it?



Now i need to load everyone up on a truck scale to see what we all weigh together.. The wife will love that..



Again, thanks so much for the help!

BlackNoir

"Generally speaking", 3/4-ton and 1-ton (SRW) trucks are the same. However, the 1-ton trucks have more GVWR (on paper). The price difference between the two (3/4 and 1-ton SRW) are normally within $1,000 so going with the 1-ton SRW makes most sense most of the time.

If a 1/2-ton is off the list, it usually makes most sense to jump to the 1-ton SRW as the ride/difference between a 3/4 and 1-ton SRW are nil most of the time.

Unless there are licensing issues with a class-3 truck (GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs), the 1-ton is of no disadvantage. (Some situations make a 3/4-ton the better situation.)


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[JDZO6C5]

I just bought a 2017 cougar xlite RDB this past March. I purchased my 2015 Chevy Duramax short bed last May. It pulls it with no problem. It's completely stock with no level kit or lift on it. My truck sits level when it's hooked up to my truck. I didn't need to adjust the pin box at all. I of course am a duramax fan and would suggest to get one. I was going to purchase a 2015 F250 super duty, but every person I knew who had one would have to always add air bags to the truck, or else the back end would sag. I also like the interior on the new model chevy's compared to the old model Ford. I wanted a change in looks since the super duty interior looks similar to my old F-150. My prior truck was a 2013 Ford F-150 FX4 with ecoboost. Our old camper I pulled it with was a Rockwood Roo (21ft). I did use may duramax to pull our old camper last year, which made a big difference obviously, but a bumper pull cannot compare to a 5th wheel. So much better to pull a 5th wheel. My F-150 could have pulled my 5th wheel no doubt, but pulling it safely is another story, since it would overload that truck with the amount of weight. The 1/2 ton would also lack with braking, hill descent, and climbing. My half ton transmission tempature would get real high climbing hills with the 21 ft camper behind it. I also love the exhaust brake on the duramax, which makes a world of difference as well. A 250 or 2500 diesel truck is perfect for those cougar xlites. I know that 5th wheel would man handle that 1/2 ton on the road when it's windy. You will not be disappointed if you get any brand diesel truck!

[JDZO6C5]

The size of the shower in the 2017 28RDB is freakin awesome!

[Buck1032]

Originally Posted by JDZO6C5

The size of the shower in the 2017 28RDB is freakin awesome!

Yes, yes it is! Of our family I am the only one that took a shower in it before our calamites ensued. The shower in the 28 RDB was great, roomy and I timed the hot water without taking a Navy shower. With the water flowing I had 10 solid minutes of hot water before the temp starting cooling off. Over all I ran the shower for 13 minutes bumping the temp up and still had hot water. The room, the door, the bathroom was great. We moved up from the Forest River Surveyor SP-260 with a small shower with a shower curtain in a small bathroom. The 28 RDB bathroom is great and roomy.

[BlackNoir]

Buck, sounds like the shower i'm upgrading from! Tiny, corner shower/tub with the controls way down low, cold curtain on 2 sides and a low ceiling overhead..

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by BlackNoir

What do you guys recommend for bed length? I was going to go with Long but the dealer did mention i could get a short bed if i go with the right hitch.

I have always been an 8' bed fan, better ride, and you can put a below rail tool box and still haul 8' lumber fully supported with the Tailgate down.

[JDZO6C5]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

I have always been an 8' bed fan, better ride, and you can put a below rail tool box and still haul 8' lumber fully supported with the Tailgate down.

I don't care for the look of long bed trucks. Another reason I got the cougar as I have no clearance issues when making sharp turns.

[JDZO6C5]

The only things so far I don't like about the 28RDB is the dinning table. The wood it's made of seems cheap as the shape of it isn't square or level. The lights! When you turn my battery disconnect switch on to give power to unit, random lights auto turn on. Two in the bottom front storage compartment, the bunk bed areas, bedroom, and rear storage compartment. That's annoying because I have to pull out the slide to get to bunks to turn off and drop the spare tire to get to rear compartment and turn off the light in there. The black tank flush seems weak as hell compared to my old camper. I have to replace the vacuum flusher/check valve under the bathroom sink. Had a mishap using the black tank flush with that. You can see my recent post about that.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JDZO6C5

I don't care for the look of long bed trucks. Another reason I got the cougar as I have no clearance issues when making sharp turns.

Well while looks matter, I buy a TV for practicability and a long bed is far more useful than a short bed.

[Buck1032]

I went back and looked at the thread I started regarding the bunk removal, surprisingly the photos are still up so here is a link to that thread http://www.keystoneforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=27112

[BlackNoir]

Very clean Buck! I have 2 kids so i'm keeping the bunks, but that looks really nice.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Frank G

I made the above statement quite seriously. My 2500 with full tank and bed rails weighs in at 8,200 lbs. add 1,050 lbs for passengers and hitch and we have 9,250 lbs actual loaded truck weight leaving just 750 lbs. for pin weight. That 750 lbs does not include the self inflected safety margin some are calling for. This is why I said what I said. A 250/2500 can not pull anything but the smallest RV Legally, and you have to be careful with a 350/3500 srw especially if it came with a down rated sticker.

Yes, a friend of mine ended up with a 350 with a 10,000 lb sticker. He is in worse shape than I am.

I am not advocating anyone exceed the stickers on the vehicle or the tow information as provided by the manufacture.

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

"Generally speaking", 3/4-ton and 1-ton (SRW) trucks are the same. However, the 1-ton trucks have more GVWR (on paper). The price difference between the two (3/4 and 1-ton SRW) are normally within $1,000 so going with the 1-ton SRW makes most sense most of the time.

If a 1/2-ton is off the list, it usually makes most sense to jump to the 1-ton SRW as the ride/difference between a 3/4 and 1-ton SRW are nil most of the time.

Unless there are licensing issues with a class-3 truck (GVWR greater than 10,000 lbs), the 1-ton is of no disadvantage. (Some situations make a 3/4-ton the better situation.)


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The statement in red is the reason the Class 2 trucks exist. In many locations the 350/3500 AKA one Ton trucks are forced to be registered and insured as "Commercial" at a much higher cost to the owner. In addition many HOA's in communities don't allow One Ton trucks to be parked in them.

I also don't suggest others exceed their TV GVWR, the biggest difference between 250/2500's and their 350/3500 SRW counterparts is the 10,000# Class 2 GVWR limitation.

[Buck1032]

Originally Posted by BlackNoir

Very clean Buck! I have 2 kids so i'm keeping the bunks, but that looks really nice.

Keystone did not want that top bunk removed! That thing was installed permanently, hence the idea of the shelf. LOL

[Old Bill]

BlackNoir. . .
Here's the specs on my truck/5th wheel combo, shown in my signature below. Have around 4k on my unit, with trips to the upper peninsula in Michigan to the rolling hills of southern Missouri. Combo handles beautifully... strong pulling and braking up and down steep hills. Engine and Transmission (10-speed) temps always in normal ranges. MPG averages 11 on the flatlands and 8 in the hill country.

[Frank G]

WOW, 6 pages of you need a 350 and here comes "Old Bill" proving us all wrong.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Frank G

WOW, 6 pages of you need a 350 and here comes "Old Bill" proving us all wrong.

When was the last time anyone ever saw a 5th that only had 600 - 700 pounds difference between dry weight and loaded for a trip weight... my DW loads more than that in snacks and clothes...


Javi

[xrated]

Originally Posted by Old Bill

BlackNoir. . .
Here's the specs on my truck/5th wheel combo, shown in my signature below. Have around 4k on my unit, with trips to the upper peninsula in Michigan to the rolling hills of southern Missouri. Combo handles beautifully... strong pulling and braking up and down steep hills. Engine and Transmission (10-speed) temps always in normal ranges. MPG averages 11 on the flatlands and 8 in the hill country.

Old Bill.....you are also towing a somewhat smaller trailer than BlackNoir.

[Old Bill]

Not trying to "PROVE" anybody wrong. What I have is working great and below weight limits all around. Only shared it because the OP's dry weights were only 635# over mine, and he could see what a maxed F150 was capable of. I think some of you folks need to have a beer and cool off!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Old Bill

Not trying to "PROVE" anybody wrong. What I have is working great and below weight limits all around. Only shared it because the OP's dry weights were only 635# over mine, and he could see what a maxed F150 was capable of. I think some of you folks need to have a beer and cool off!

I don't know where Old Bill got the 635 pound weight difference, but it's not quite what Keystone publishes. Let's look at Keystone's specs for the 2017 25RKS and the 2018 28RDB and compare what Keystone says:

25RKS 6400 dry wt, 1120 empty pin wt, 27'2" long
28RDB 7685 dry wt, 1475 empty pin wt, 32'11" long

Differences: Dry wt, 1285 heavier, empty pin wt 355 heavier, 5'9" longer.

Trying to compare the two is only possible when looking at the front cap (they have the same brand name decal on the cap) otherwise, they are two entirely different trailers. To start, the 25RKS does not have a "wardrobe slide" in the bedroom and the "main slide" is about 7' long (dinette only) compared to the RDB main slide which is 13' long and contains a sofa and dinette. Additionally, there is a wardrobe slide in the 28RDB which adds to the empty pin weight as well as providing "over the pin storage" which will directly increase the pin weight pound for pound, something not even included in the 25RKS. The refrigerator in the 28RDB is over the axles while in the 25RKS it's on the back wall of the trailer, so loading it will lighten the pin while loading the RDB will not affect pin weight significantly.

Even the GVW is significantly different. The 25RKS GVW is 8200 and the 28RDB is 10,000. Essentially the 28RDB is in another class of fifth wheel and comparing the much lighter, shorter and smaller capacity 25RKS behind a tow vehicle is not relevant to towing something that's so much heavier, longer and larger.

By Old Bill's own admission, his truck is "a maxed out F150", so it would be significantly overloaded if coupled with the trailer in question.

Keystone does advertise that "SOME" Cougar XLite models can be towed with a "PROPERLY EQUIPPED" half ton truck. The 25RKS is one of only a couple that do meet that "PROPERLY EQUIPPED" limitation. The 28RDB is far too heavy to even consider as are most of the other XLite models that are larger than Old Bill's 25RKS.

Good to know information, that an F150 is "OK" with the smaller trailer, but if it's "maxed out with the 25RKS" no way could it tow the 28RDB, the OP's family and the equipment he plans to take with him when travelling.

And, I didn't even "have a beer" to cool off, although I did just mow the lawn and walk down to the lake to find my paddle boat blown off the dock and into the weeds. Oh well, maybe now I'll have that beer.