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Old 09-26-2015, 03:51 PM   #1
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Keystone doesn't stand behind their products.

I've got a 37 foot Keystone Sydney Outback 5th wheel. I bought this rig new in 2012 and it has never been wrecked and is parked under cover when not in use. Recently I noticed where the back panel was separating from the joint with the roof right in the middle of the rig. I contacted Keystone to see what to do and I was told to take it to an authorized Keystone repair facility to have it looked at. The nearest one to me was Southern RV in Tyler, TX., which is approximately a 75 mile round trip, so I took it there.

The service manager at Southern RV personally took a look at it and said the back wall was cut too short at the factory and that is what caused the separation. He also told me there was nothing I could have done to cause it. He took a bunch of photos of it and wrote up a ticket to Keystone to have it considered for repair at company cost since it was a manufacturing defect. Seems reasonable right?

Well, I heard from Keystone today and they are denying my request because the rig is out of warranty. It didn't matter to them that their own authorized repair facility said it was their fault, they basically told me to pack sand! I called Keystone and tried to talk to whoever makes that decision and I was told by the lady on the phone, who sounded about 15 years old, that those people only talk to dealers and don't talk to customers and there was nothing she could do about it!

So, it seems as though Keystone believes the shelf life of a $40K+ 5th wheel is 3 years! Now I'll have to go through my insurance company to try and fix a manufacturers defect because the company refuses to stand by their product! Frankly I expect better from a company like Keystone. I'm going to turn to the Good Sam Club and see if they can bring some pressure on Keystone to stand behind their products.
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Old 09-26-2015, 04:08 PM   #2
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I would leave out the part about it being a keystone issue when you speak to your insurance or they will not touch it with a 10ft poll. Plus they will jack up your premium, even if they do not pay out it is counted as a claim. Unless you have 0 fault coverage.

I would also go to the dealer I bought it from if the one you took it to was not! The dealers are the ones that normally get Keystone to understand the issue at hand.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #3
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I have written a response three times and deleted it before I posted it.

Your 2012 trailer is two years past the warranty period. Do you have documentation showing regular inspections/maintenance of the seams.

I'm not defending Keystone, and no one on this forum is employed by them, so take for what it's worth. I work in the industry and can tell you from first hand experience, Keystone isn't the only one to deny these claims after the warranty expires.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:02 PM   #4
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That is a tough situation. Keystone has no idea how you maintained the rig, what type of roads you rode on, etc. What you need is a good dealer willing to stand behind you. 3 yrs old is 3 yrs old, no matter which manufacturer you are dealing with.
The only recommendation I have is don't let your emotions take over and draft a well constructed letter to provide to the dealer or Keystone for that manner.
If the damage is proven due to manufacturer defect and you can prove you have maintained the rig properly, you probably have a legal leg to stand on but unfortunately may require legal action on your behalf. Please remember that poor quality can at times be the norm in this industry, not just Keystone.
I read your post on rv.net and believe you received similar responses there.
Good luck and please let is know how you make out. BTW photos would be helpful if you can post them.
For what it is worth I have a 13 Sydney and no problems.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:06 PM   #5
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Unfortunately, I have to agree with Chuckster. I worked in the auto industry in service and it is much the same. Sorry you have to deal with this issue
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mom2budnbug View Post
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Chuckster. I worked in the auto industry in service and it is much the same. Sorry you have to deal with this issue
Aren't most basic auto warranties 3yr/36k miles? Seems like he would still be covered if this was the case.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:56 PM   #7
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Aren't most basic auto warranties 3yr/36k miles? Seems like he would still be covered if this was the case.
That is the point: RV basic warranty is 12 months/unlimited mileage. So, when that time frame expired, he was no longer covered. Comparing a 3 year warranty to a 1 year warranty is "apples and oranges" They aren't the same.
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Old 09-27-2015, 03:32 AM   #8
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"Now I'll have to go through my insurance company to try and fix a manufacturers defect because the company refuses to stand by their product!" Hmmmmm, what part of your catch-all clause in your policy covers manufacturing defects? You've owned it three years and this is your first time to post? You are not going to get much sympathy when you are two years out of date.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:13 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by x96mnn View Post

I would also go to the dealer I bought it from if the one you took it to was not! The dealers are the ones that normally get Keystone to understand the issue at hand.
The problem is the dealer is in VA and I'm in TX and I can't take time of work to haul it half way across the nation to get them to look at it. That's why I took it to the nearest authorized Keystone repair facility.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:20 AM   #10
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"Now I'll have to go through my insurance company to try and fix a manufacturers defect because the company refuses to stand by their product!" Hmmmmm, what part of your catch-all clause in your policy covers manufacturing defects?

I have a deterioration clause I'm hoping it falls under.

You've owned it three years and this is your first time to post?

Never had a reason to post before this but I'm getting this on as many forums as possible. I post on about 6 other forums, just not this one until now. You do know this isn't the only one on the net right?

You are not going to get much sympathy when you are two years out of date.

Not looking for your sympathy, simply putting the word out. Besides I understand about warranties but I still think when an authorized repair facility states in writing it is a manufacturers defect the company should honor their product. Not asking too much considering the cost of new 5th wheels and the fact they should last more than 3 years before they begin to fall apart. Maybe you disagree, which is fine since it is your right to do so.
Just trying to get the word out how Keystone doesn't seem to customer friendly. Not a good way to build repeat customers!
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:26 AM   #11
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That is the point: RV basic warranty is 12 months/unlimited mileage. So, when that time frame expired, he was no longer covered. Comparing a 3 year warranty to a 1 year warranty is "apples and oranges" They aren't the same.
Exactly...Thats what I was saying. If it was much same as the auto industry, as a prior poster had exclaimed, he would still be covered. Besides a select few, a manufacturer RV warranty would be a huge gamble for any longer than 12 months. The shoddy workmanship and untested construction methods would kill any future profits.
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:50 AM   #12
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:00 AM   #13
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As a Dometic servicing dealer in the marine industry, I deal with a lot of manufacturer defects, warranty claims, warranty rejections, and unhappy customers.
Warranties are specifically written, usually to say that the product is covered for one year or two years, whatever, against equipment failure and manufacturers defects. After the period specified in writing is past, the warranty goes away. it's like that in every industry I know of. I have gone to bat for customers in similar situations as this one and in some cases where the failure happened or was noticed close to the expiration date of the warranty period, I have been able to get my customer the assistance he needed, other cases, I have not.
Two years beyond the warranty expiration is pretty significant, and while I can sympathize with the OP, for any company to handle it any other way would leave them with an open-ended warranty for the life of the product. No one can stay in business for very long doing that. What if the OP had owned the trailer for 10 years before noticing the defect instead of three? If a shop looked at it and declared it a manufacturers issue, should the manufacturer still be responsible for a defect that had gone 10 years without being noticed?
Concerning the Keystone warranty, it specifies that seals, caulking, etc should be responsible for inspecting the RV every six months. If it can be proven that was done, then the OP may have some leverage, though unlikely after three years. If it had been done on a timely basis, the question would be, why is it just now being noticed? This doesn't sound like the type of failure that would occur in a matter of a few weeks.
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #14
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I worked in the auto industry in service and it is much the same. Sorry you have to deal with this issue
I haven't worked in the auto service industry, but I've got a 2008 Civic - fuel tank just broke at the filler neck. It had a 3/36k mile warranty - well expired... apparently they had extended the warranty on the gas tank to cover issues like this as the tanks were not right from the factory. Didn't cost me a dime.

Sorry to hear about Keystone's response, especially if you've got a dealer that says it wasn't right out the door... I wish it had been caught in PDI.
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Flags View Post
I've got a 37 foot Keystone Sydney Outback 5th wheel. I bought this rig new in 2012 and it has never been wrecked and is parked under cover when not in use. Recently I noticed where the back panel was separating from the joint with the roof right in the middle of the rig. I contacted Keystone to see what to do and I was told to take it to an authorized Keystone repair facility to have it looked at. The nearest one to me was Southern RV in Tyler, TX., which is approximately a 75 mile round trip, so I took it there.

The service manager at Southern RV personally took a look at it and said the back wall was cut too short at the factory and that is what caused the separation. He also told me there was nothing I could have done to cause it. He took a bunch of photos of it and wrote up a ticket to Keystone to have it considered for repair at company cost since it was a manufacturing defect. Seems reasonable right?

Well, I heard from Keystone today and they are denying my request because the rig is out of warranty. It didn't matter to them that their own authorized repair facility said it was their fault, they basically told me to pack sand! I called Keystone and tried to talk to whoever makes that decision and I was told by the lady on the phone, who sounded about 15 years old, that those people only talk to dealers and don't talk to customers and there was nothing she could do about it!

So, it seems as though Keystone believes the shelf life of a $40K+ 5th wheel is 3 years! Now I'll have to go through my insurance company to try and fix a manufacturers defect because the company refuses to stand by their product! Frankly I expect better from a company like Keystone. I'm going to turn to the Good Sam Club and see if they can bring some pressure on Keystone to stand behind their products.
Try exploring the Magnuson - Moss warranty act, which is a Federal law. You can Google it.

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Old 09-27-2015, 07:19 PM   #16
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Not sure it has any weight in this case. Warranty period was spelled out, consumer responsibility's are clearly written in owners manuals.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:03 PM   #17
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Mention has been made about the owner's responsibility to carry out regular inspection and maintenance of seams, caulking, etc. on your RV as spelled out in the Keystone Owner's manual. It has also been said that if a leak or separation should happen that the owner would stand a better chance with Keystone if he/she could "show proof" or "documentation" that routine inspections and maintenance were carried out.

I am wondering just how the owner can provide such "proof". If the owner kept a log of what and when things were done would that qualify as "proof"? Whose to say that a log couldn't be faked and submitted at the time a claim is made? What is deemed to be adequate "proof" or documentation that inspection and maintenance has been regularly carried out? Would date-stamped photos or videos be good enough?

Seems to me that the owner has an almost impossible task in proving that regular inspection and maintenance has been carried out.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:22 PM   #18
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That's a very good question. Receipts for oil and filter seem to work for automotive warranties. How does one prove regular inspections unless they go to a dealer for a roof inspection documented on a work/repair order.
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Old 09-28-2015, 02:12 AM   #19
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Mention has been made about the owner's responsibility to carry out regular inspection and maintenance of seams, caulking, etc. on your RV as spelled out in the Keystone Owner's manual. It has also been said that if a leak or separation should happen that the owner would stand a better chance with Keystone if he/she could "show proof" or "documentation" that routine inspections and maintenance were carried out.

I am wondering just how the owner can provide such "proof". If the owner kept a log of what and when things were done would that qualify as "proof"? Whose to say that a log couldn't be faked and submitted at the time a claim is made? What is deemed to be adequate "proof" or documentation that inspection and maintenance has been regularly carried out? Would date-stamped photos or videos be good enough?

Seems to me that the owner has an almost impossible task in proving that regular inspection and maintenance has been carried out.
In my case I have a local RV repair center do an inspection every 6 months and document it with a receipt... it may not be enough for Keystone but would go a long way with a court. The cost is negligible when compared to a situation like the OP's and the time involved is a hour or so for me.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:27 AM   #20
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Javi & Chuck -
Your solution would seem to be the best route to take in providing "proof". I guess in the big picture, taking your RV to a repair facility to have an outside source inspect the roof, while a PITA - not to mention the additional cost involved - should be enough to satisfy Keystone but you never know.
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