Do I really need a dually?

[Tbos]

There’s a guy on the Alpine Facebook page that has a pretty new 3500 DRW for sale if anyone is interested.

[hguilford]

Sorry, been away for a while dealing with some "STUFF" but I read everything and take it all with a grain of salt. I will say that I have considered EVERYTHING when deciding on a TV. I guess I should have posted more info, like the fact the DW and I will NEVER be full time RVers and won't ever fully load the 5er. As a matter of fact we only have the essentials in the 5er and the wife ALWAYS drives her SUV when we travel, so that is the vehicle that gets loaded, not the 5er or TV. The other consideration is that the TV is my every day driver and a dually, although great for heavier loads and long hauls, isn't a practical option at this point. The DW won't retire for a few more years so we only travel and camp within a days drive. The A320RS is a comfortable size for the two of us and two small dogs so it is unlikely we will ever upgrade to anything bigger and heavier. If anything we may consider a motorhome rather than upgrading the RV. So, all that said I will keep what I currently have unless or until something major changes. Thanks to all for your input.

[falcondan95705]

Pin weight, filled with people and fuel.. r u over trucks gvwr? Or rear axle ratings.. ? If so on a srw, then yes,,dually..

[falcondan95705]

It's not personal preference..

[JRTJH]

I've stayed out of this discussion specifically because it's way too easy to spend someone else's money. But, I think it's important to bring up a couple of points that may step on some toes, but come directly from GM. The OP's truck is a 2019 Silverado 2500 6.6l diesel. Here's what GM provides for "fifth wheel/gooseneck towing recommendations in the 2019 GM towing guide for ALL 2019 Silverado 2500 models (2wd/4wd/long bed/short bed versions):

6.0 Vortec (4.10) 2WD SB 14300 LB 14200 4WD SB 14000 LB 13900
6.0 Vortec (3.73) 2WD SB 9800 LB 9700 4WD SB 9500 LB 9400

The Silverado 2500 6.6l diesel is not rated to tow a fifth wheel/gooseneck trailer (there are -- -- -- -- on all the rating categories)

Also, there is a note regarding payload that states: " The weight of any additional equipment and all passengers must be subtracted from the payload weight to determine the maximum kingpin load available."

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/da...ring-guide.pdf

I'm not wanting to "open a can of worms" but the 2019 Silverado 2500 diesel is not rated (by the manufacturer) to tow anything but a conventional travel trailer.

Also, possibly not related to this specific vehicle/trailer/hitch combination, there is also this comment:

"Follow the manufacturer’s directions for installation, but note that the hitch must be attached to the truck frame. Do not use the pickup bed for additional support. For proper kingpin tongue load distribution and control of the trailer, the hitch must be mounted so the kingpin load is placed over, or slightly in front of, the rear axle centerline."

I would question whether this is intended to exclude "gooseneck hitches that connect to the gooseneck ball and rely on the truck bed to stabilize the hitch? and also to exclude those hitches that sit the trailer connection behind the centerline of the rear axle? I can't (won't) suggest that it does, but I can't suggest that it isn't intended to exclude that type of "gooseneck connection for fifth wheel trailers"...

NOTE: The underlined phrases are my "added emphasis" to identify concern, not copied from the GM Towing Guide.

[hguilford]

I can't believe what I am seeing in this tow guide. I have seen a different tow chart and was told the max 5th wheel tow rating for this truck is 15,400. The 2018 2500HD with the 6.0L gas engine is rated at 14,200 so how can a 2019 2500HD with the 6.6L Duramax not be rated to carry a 5er at all? There has to be a reasonable explanation and I'm certainly going to speak with the owner of my dealership first thing tomorrow. For crying out loud they even installed the hitch for me! Thanks for pointing this out, John, but this has to be a mistake.

[JRTJH]

I would HOPE it's a mistake, but there has been a lot of "manufacturer reluctance" to fifth wheel towing with limited payload. If I remember, both Ford and GM did not rate their half ton models for fifth wheel towing around the 2005-2011 years. Part of that was the 5' bed limitations, but the lack of towing weight listings was across the model range, even with the 6.5' and 8' bed.

I was composing my response to this thread and had "planned on highlighting the reduced payload with the diesel engine and the 10K payload cap. I was honestly "shocked" to see that GM didn't include any fifth wheel/gooseneck tow capacity ratings for any diesel powered 2500 truck. GM even had a footnote in the half ton chart saying something like, "GM does not recommend fifth wheel/gooseneck towing with the 1500 series trucks". That changed with later models.

Hopefully there is an updated GM towing guide that does include that data, but what I saw in the guide at the link I provided was "shocking, to say the least"....

[hguilford]

I tried to chat with GM online but they weren't much help. Although the dealership was already closed I sent a personal email to the owner. I have purchased my last 4 trucks from them so we know each other well and I am very interested in what they have to say.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I would HOPE it's a mistake, but there has been a lot of "manufacturer reluctance" to fifth wheel towing with limited payload. If I remember, both Ford and GM did not rate their half ton models for fifth wheel towing around the 2005-2011 years. Part of that was the 5' bed limitations, but the lack of towing weight listings was across the model range, even with the 6.5' and 8' bed.

I was composing my response to this thread and had "planned on highlighting the reduced payload with the diesel engine and the 10K payload cap. I was honestly "shocked" to see that GM didn't include any fifth wheel/gooseneck tow capacity ratings for any diesel powered 2500 truck. GM even had a footnote in the half ton chart saying something like, "GM does not recommend fifth wheel/gooseneck towing with the 1500 series trucks". That changed with later models.

Hopefully there is an updated GM towing guide that does include that data, but what I saw in the guide at the link I provided was "shocking, to say the least"....

As I was trying top respond to another poster in another thread I found that GMs lack of information, and even ambiguity, was disturbing. I think as the big 3 try to outdo each other on all these payload/towing specs GM just wants to "wing it ?" and let folks hang and wonder? They have always been very vague and non specific when trying to post numbers (in recent years)...."read an advertisement", but now that we have reached the numbers for the current HD trucks....they need to up their game or let folks assume they aren't in it. JMO

[cookinwitdiesel]

The new gen HD GM trucks literally have their towing numbers on the door sticker. This is a 3500HD Denali Diesel SRW. The 2500s have the same sticker with vehicle specific numbers

[hguilford]

That makes perfect sense and should be mandated for all truck manufacturers. It takes all the guesswork out of this and would give us something else to cuss and discuss, like China Bombs!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by hguilford

That makes perfect sense and should be mandated for all truck manufacturers. It takes all the guesswork out of this and would give us something else to cuss and discuss, like China Bombs!

LOL Yes, I agree. However GM "advertises this towing decal on the driver's door" as a "class exclusive feature"... Apparently they beat Ford and Fiat/Chrysler to the punch this time....

If it's any consolation, the GMC towing guide for 2019 does list fifth wheel towing limits. I'm convinced that the omission was either an intentional "don't want to talk about it" or an honest mistake in not publishing the data.... At least the towing numbers are available for a "similar vehicle with a different grill"....

[sourdough]

I like that sticker. Looks to me like they cut max tongue wt. vs payload pretty close but that's the game anymore...

[hguilford]

Yeah, I found multiple tow charts that show no less than 14,400 and some as much as 15,400 so I'm sure I will be okay. Just to be safe, this is my next TV.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by hguilford

Yeah, I found multiple tow charts that show no less than 14,400 and some as much as 15,400 so I'm sure I will be okay. Just to be safe, this is my next TV.

Attachment 24828

That looks a little lightweight. Maybe you need a big dually???

[hguilford]

UPDATE: GM and dealership both are telling me 12,400 lbs for my truck. I finally found the website I originally looked at back in November to justify buying this truck. It confirms what I was saying all along. 15,400 lbs for 5th wheel/gooseneck towing. There are no asterisks, no footnotes, no nothing! That is the justification I used to convince my wife to let me upgrade to this truck. The link is named, "SILVERADO BY THE NUMBERS" and is a link directly from the Chevrolet.com site for the 2019 and 2020 Silverado HD trucks. I'm very interested to hear what GM and the dealership have to say about this tomorrow!

[JRTJH]

I'm interested to hear what they have to say as well. I'm guessing that somewhere in the 2020 model year website updates, the 2019 info got moved around and the "valid info" got deleted, someone updated with a draft copy and what we see is the results...

Hopefully there's some hard copy towing guides still around in a dealership office and they can get you the "what we put on the street last year" info in print copy.

Keep us posted on what the dealership has to say....

[sourdough]

I believe you upgraded to a 2019 2500 Diesel Silverado? Looking at the pic it appears to be a crew cab, regular box, 4x4? If so the attached chart shows the payload at 2513 and a max tow of 13500 for 5th wheel. IF it is a 4x2 the numbers change to 15400 for 5th wheel/goose neck as you've been looking for but the payload is still only 2803. Not enough IMO for a 15000lb. 5th wheel and I'm sure the reason for the original question of "do I need a dually". Scroll down to the payload and trailer weight rating page....on down there a ways.

https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/b...rado2500hd.pdf

From memory I believe the dry weight of that trailer was like 11500 - dry weight alone would be too much for either of those trucks to me weight wise, not pulling.

[cookinwitdiesel]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I believe you upgraded to a 2019 2500 Diesel Silverado? Looking at the pic it appears to be a crew cab, regular box, 4x4? If so the attached chart shows the payload at 2513 and a max tow of 13500 for 5th wheel. IF it is a 4x2 the numbers change to 15400 for 5th wheel/goose neck as you've been looking for but the payload is still only 2803. Not enough IMO for a 15000lb. 5th wheel and I'm sure the reason for the original question of "do I need a dually". Scroll down to the payload and trailer weight rating page....on down there a ways.

https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/b...rado2500hd.pdf

From memory I believe the dry weight of that trailer was like 11500 - dry weight alone would be too much for either of those trucks to me.

2513 will be a base trim, for a Denali/High Country, subtract another 300# from that payload. I made that mistake - trusting the literature too much.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by cookinwitdiesel

2513 will be a base trim, for a Denali/High Country, subtract another 300# from that payload. I made that mistake - trusting the literature too much.

Yes, I am aware. The sticker on THE truck will tell the tale but this at least sort of addresses the OPs concerns about the 15400 rating etc......I think.