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03-02-2016, 10:07 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WEMBLEY AB
Posts: 48
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Drilling holes in my ramp door
Going to drill holes in my ramp door on my carbon 32 to install cables to make a deck. Door is not reinforced does anyone think it will hold or will it rip right through. Going to put a 6 inch backing plate in with the bolts to try to take more of the load. Has anyone tried something similar
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03-02-2016, 10:37 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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Glad you're trying it first..
As near as I can tell most of those penetrations go through the aluminum frame around the door. Id be surprised if the Carbon had a substantially different door than other setups. I *think* I've seen Carbons optioned with the ramp patio, but I believe my dealer told me that it wasn't available and wanted to sell a Fuzion.
http://www.coltonrv.com/wp-content/u...07-560x373.jpg
Shows a carbon with the ramp patio. Door doesn't appear to be different..
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03-02-2016, 10:51 AM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WEMBLEY AB
Posts: 48
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The carbon TT models didn't offer a patio with a reinforced door until this year with the new carbon 35 model. Can't get anywhere with keystone on ordering a patio kit. They won't sell u one unless your unit came factory equipped with a reinforced door or had a previous kit on it. So I'm going to go though jayco and order the patio kit off there octane model. Keystone hasn't been much help with anything
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03-02-2016, 12:37 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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Are these the parts that Keystone won't speak about?
http://www.trekwood.com/replacements/43042/Garage
Tried a dealer? I know Keystone doesn't sell parts direct.. Dealers should though..
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03-02-2016, 04:51 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WEMBLEY AB
Posts: 48
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I went that route already. Talked to a lady there named Jennifer and she was gonna source me the parts. She came back after searching and keystone wouldn't let her sell the parts apparently they supply the OEMs. Thanks so much for your efforts though
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03-02-2016, 06:04 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Stanfield
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve slade
Going to drill holes in my ramp door on my carbon 32 to install cables to make a deck. Door is not reinforced does anyone think it will hold or will it rip right through. Going to put a 6 inch backing plate in with the bolts to try to take more of the load. Has anyone tried something similar
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Im going to do the same thing. My door is rated to hold 3000 pounds in the ramp position, weight distributed evenly. If a guy were to attach a couple hooks, reenforced of course I don't see why that door wont hold a few hundred pounds of people or what ever in the level position. Im sure there are some legalities that Keystone is trying to avoid by not selling us patio kits.
__________________
2014 Fuzion 301
2017 Ford F350 PSD
2012 Honda Goldwing
1995 Honda Goldwing
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03-02-2016, 06:51 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Saginaw Mn
Posts: 1,732
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The doors are not strong enough to support the weight like a patio. You will do a lot of damage to the rear door if you try.
__________________
2012 Keystone Retreat 39 FDEN
99 Dodge One Ton Diesel Dually
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03-03-2016, 06:38 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 123
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patio
Steve I am with you, we have a Carbon 31 and I too like having the option to use the door as a Patio in limited capacity. I was at the RV show a week ago and was looking at the hardware required and its not much. I too believe that if the door can withstand loading it should be able to withstand a deck. I have used collapsible saw horses from Lowes or HD to set under my door they are perfect height, I spit a pool noodle and placed over the top of the sawhorse so it would have cushion and reduce and friction on the decals on the door. If there is an issue with the connection point of the cable, then maybe use the saw horse to reduce the weight being applied at these points. I do not have the side rails and I think they are great for safety but it just me and my wife and it makes a great patio to sit and have a cup of coffee or evening drink in a nice chair up off the ground.
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03-03-2016, 06:52 AM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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Gary31,
Your "sawhorse solution" may give you some clues into how well your door would support a patio option. The "cable supports" are attached to the sides of the ramp, not the middle (where your sawhorses are positioned). Have you placed the sawhorses along the sides (90 degrees from their current orientation) of the ramp in the location where the cables would attach?
From what I've seen (I don't own a trailer with a ramp) the ramp that is installed to be used only as a ramp, does not have any "side to side" bracing. That seems to be where all the damage from loading occurs. The ramp that's installed with the patio option (as I understand it) does have "side to side" bracing which prevents the door from "folding up" or "bending" in the middle when a load is applied.
The way you have your saw horses installed would "support the ramp" and "provide the necessary side to side bracing". If you install cables on the sides, remove your sawhorses, you may find the door bowing or possibly folding along the center "vertical" part.
You might want to experiment with the sawhorses along the sides (under the aluminum molding) to see how much "bow" you get in the center of the ramp.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-03-2016, 07:21 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 123
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patio
Steve,
I have not experimented with placing them vertical along the edges and will do so to check the flex of the door. I can say that regardless of flex placing the sawhorse center of the door along with the cable support should eliminate any folding during load. Once again its just the two of us and we are not "partying" and jumping up and down like I am sure happens when these doors fail. It is more likely that they were overloaded and abused. I thought I would show you my solution and our ability to utilize the area, I intend on carrying the folding horse even if I add the cable supports just because they do not take any space and are super light.
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03-03-2016, 07:56 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 161
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I think I'd be equally concerned about the need for addition bracing in the trailer walls where the cables would fasten. My guess is that the upper attachment would create a load point that a non-patio unit wasn't designed for. How about supporting from below with some form of adjustable jackstands?
__________________
2013 Ram 3500 6.7 CTD
2015 Cougar 326 SRX
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03-03-2016, 02:00 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicercars
The doors are not strong enough to support the weight like a patio. You will do a lot of damage to the rear door if you try.
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Spicer, can you confirm that for RVs where there is a patio option that the doors are designed differently?
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03-03-2016, 02:02 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Texarkana, TX
Posts: 1,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdxbonez
I think I'd be equally concerned about the need for addition bracing in the trailer walls where the cables would fasten. My guess is that the upper attachment would create a load point that a non-patio unit wasn't designed for.
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As near as I can tell my carbon already has the braces installed - there are holes for the patio cables.
Again, I'm not sure that the non-patio units are different short of paying the fee for the option and rails...
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03-03-2016, 05:23 PM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcg9381
As near as I can tell my carbon already has the braces installed - there are holes for the patio cables.
Again, I'm not sure that the non-patio units are different short of paying the fee for the option and rails...
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You might very well be correct in assuming that the bracing is installed. However, it could be that since the doors are the same size, Lippert designed and contracted for only one set of "side rails" for both doors and they are "different internally" even though both use the same circumferential aluminum pieces. Maybe someone at Lippert would (could) give you some insight? I'd almost bet that Keystone wouldn't answer that type of question.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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03-03-2016, 05:59 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WEMBLEY AB
Posts: 48
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I was using two jack stands on the bump stops last summer and it held the weight fine. When I install the cables I will still use one jack stand on the end in the centre just for additional support. It's only me and the wife. I wouldn't risk having a bunch of people on it. It will probably be another month before I get a chance to do it since it is still winter here. But I will post pics when finished and tested
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03-04-2016, 07:32 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Stanfield
Posts: 33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH
Gary31,
Your "sawhorse solution" may give you some clues into how well your door would support a patio option. The "cable supports" are attached to the sides of the ramp, not the middle (where your sawhorses are positioned). Have you placed the sawhorses along the sides (90 degrees from their current orientation) of the ramp in the location where the cables would attach?
From what I've seen (I don't own a trailer with a ramp) the ramp that is installed to be used only as a ramp, does not have any "side to side" bracing. That seems to be where all the damage from loading occurs. The ramp that's installed with the patio option (as I understand it) does have "side to side" bracing which prevents the door from "folding up" or "bending" in the middle when a load is applied.
The way you have your saw horses installed would "support the ramp" and "provide the necessary side to side bracing". If you install cables on the sides, remove your sawhorses, you may find the door bowing or possibly folding along the center "vertical" part.
You might want to experiment with the sawhorses along the sides (under the aluminum molding) to see how much "bow" you get in the center of the ramp.
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This is a good point and one worth the time to investigate. Before I drill the holes and install my hooks I am going to support the gate at the points where the hooks will be mounted. Then my wife and I along with the BBQ and some other patio props are going to see how the gate handles the weight. Better safe than sorry I think and I appreciate the idea.
__________________
2014 Fuzion 301
2017 Ford F350 PSD
2012 Honda Goldwing
1995 Honda Goldwing
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03-04-2016, 10:03 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 183
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I think my brother made jack stands out of PVC pipe. Maybe one slightly smaller in diameter than the other so one fit inside the other. Then holes drilled through each. Then he used a pin through the holes to adjust the height. Low cost, low weight and PVC is not going to cause much harm to anything.
Bobby
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03-06-2016, 06:10 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: nm
Posts: 1,833
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I think the frame mounts up top are all the same heavy aluminum with a hole for the ramp door, I have pictures of patio doors with a different stamp than my non pato door. I want a patio but with the standard door it would need some kind of sheathing over the top. I will be getting a new door this week and hopefully its a little better built.
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2018 1 ton 4x4 c.c standard bed GMC Denali
Anderson ultimate hitch
2015 311 Impact Fusion toy hauler
2018 Milwaukee 8 FLRTU roadglide glide ultra
2018 800 Z force spot BUGGY.
500 watts of solar enough power for boon docking.
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03-06-2016, 06:30 PM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: WEMBLEY AB
Posts: 48
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I thought the impact already came with reinforced doors?
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03-07-2016, 04:40 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: nm
Posts: 1,833
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Some do its a option I didn't realize till I started asking my dealer about cables for the patio . They came back and said Keystone told them its a different door. Take it for what its worth but I know the patio door will have a stamp saying ramp door patio 4100 90 3/4 wx from pictures I took at Quartzsite rally this year. There again looking at pics of different patios set ups that didn't have the ramp door patio stamp dates where all 2015 same plant could have been a different yoyos day for installing stamps.
__________________
2018 1 ton 4x4 c.c standard bed GMC Denali
Anderson ultimate hitch
2015 311 Impact Fusion toy hauler
2018 Milwaukee 8 FLRTU roadglide glide ultra
2018 800 Z force spot BUGGY.
500 watts of solar enough power for boon docking.
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