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09-04-2018, 06:02 AM
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#41
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Shawinigan
Posts: 4
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Has anyone used a lawyer to get Keystone to fix major problems?? (Fiberglass pops off in different areas) Their first question to us was...."do you have a lawyer?" That didn't give us much hope for a friendly resolution to the problem.
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09-04-2018, 07:21 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Tell them "yes, name J. Noble Daggett!".
Sorry, couldn't resist the True Grit reference.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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09-04-2018, 05:42 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Oakland
Posts: 123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanna
Has anyone used a lawyer to get Keystone to fix major problems?? (Fiberglass pops off in different areas) Their first question to us was...."do you have a lawyer?" That didn't give us much hope for a friendly resolution to the problem.
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We had a dealer damage our Rv I talked to an attorney and they wanted to sue the dealer I backed off dealers have more cash than I do so I dropped it and traded it for the one we own now. They can be your friend too so lawyering up will probably not get your Rv fixed in my opinion. So you sue them and win let’s say do you really want to take it back there and expect to get any kind of quality repair.?
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09-05-2018, 07:02 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Colbert
Posts: 248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cougar high country 2013
We have a grand design Soletude 5th wheel. Shortly after we had a leak under the bathroom FL when flushing black tank. Contacted GD. and they didn't hesitate to fix the problem we actually called a Mobile rv and they came to our site and took care of the issue. In the summer another issue came up and once again they didn't hesitate and problem resolved. Great customer service in my opinion.
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The DW and I were very close to buying a GD Reflection 5th wheel because of all the reports we read praising their customer service. The only reason we didn’t is because they didn’t have the floor plan we wanted, and at that time Winnebago had just purchased Grand Design so were a bit leary about that. Unfortunately, their CS seems to be the rare exception rather than the rule in the RV industry.
__________________
2017 Avalanche 320RS 5'er
2022 Ford F-350 Lariat Ultimate with 6.7L Diesel
Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel hitch
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12-29-2018, 05:21 AM
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#45
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Ocean Isle Beach
Posts: 2
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All Manufacturers are the same so when buying GET DOWN & DIRTY
Just because your buying NEW does not mean you do not need to GET DOWN AND DIRTY! I wish I had known this when I took home my BRAND NEW 2018 Minnie Winnie (yes, wrong forum, but this is important to all!) 4 months ago. When I say this I mean be sure to GET DOWN AND CRAWL UNDER THE RIG and look for rust and corrosion. Check out my pics and you will see partially of what I found after I took home this brand new motorhome that Winnebago says is NOT a "warrantable item" and now neither they nor CW will do anything about it. Winnebago blames CW for NOT washing the underneath when they received the unit, and CW just doesn't care.... And now I'm learning I can't even go to small claims court since neither of their corporations are registered in my state? and I will need to go the expensive attorney route. I'm on this forum looking for suggestions on not only the best way to fix this problem, but also ideas on how to get either CW or Winnebago to fess up that this is NOT just surface rust but something THEY need to address since this rust is now deteriorating the metal panels they have added to the framing. I too, will never buy new again and certainly not from Winnebago or Camping World.
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12-29-2018, 06:14 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Norwood, CO
Posts: 681
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It is hard to see from the pictures just how bad the rust is. Probably would be the cheapest fix to go to a private shop have it sand blasted and then re-painted or powder coated. Either way looks way beyond a "small claims." YOU can do a civil court litigation without a lawyer if you are reasonably willing and have tons of time on your hands. A civil litigation is done in the county where the contract is signed. ( I would guess wherever C.W. is located where you bought it. Should be where they are doing business not where they are incorporated)) BUT it calls for TONS of time and a degree of ability at researching the laws of your state. So you just have to have a mad on that will not quit.
Thanks for sharing your experience, jives with things I have heard about C.W. when deciding where to buy an RV.
I wish you well but seriously think the best thing to do while preserving your equilibrium and perhaps your domestic tranquility as well is to just fix it yourself at a good shop that would then put on an undercoat protector.
Truly wish you good luck.
__________________
German Shepherd Guy
2018 Keystone 26RBPR
2014 Suburban 2500, 6L with 3.73 rear
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12-29-2018, 06:46 AM
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#47
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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The advice about involving lawyers on this forum, is to do it as a last resort. Once they are involved, the process drags on for a long time with nothing happening while they stall.
Why not write into the motor home equivalent of Trailer Life magazine and ask them to help out? Nothing beats exposure.
__________________
Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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12-29-2018, 07:34 AM
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#48
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyOIB
Just because your buying NEW does not mean you do not need to GET DOWN AND DIRTY! I wish I had known this when I took home my BRAND NEW 2018 Minnie Winnie (yes, wrong forum, but this is important to all!) 4 months ago. When I say this I mean be sure to GET DOWN AND CRAWL UNDER THE RIG and look for rust and corrosion. Check out my pics and you will see partially of what I found after I took home this brand new motorhome that Winnebago says is NOT a "warrantable item" and now neither they nor CW will do anything about it. Winnebago blames CW for NOT washing the underneath when they received the unit, and CW just doesn't care.... And now I'm learning I can't even go to small claims court since neither of their corporations are registered in my state? and I will need to go the expensive attorney route. I'm on this forum looking for suggestions on not only the best way to fix this problem, but also ideas on how to get either CW or Winnebago to fess up that this is NOT just surface rust but something THEY need to address since this rust is now deteriorating the metal panels they have added to the framing. I too, will never buy new again and certainly not from Winnebago or Camping World. Attachment 19718
Attachment 19719
Attachment 19720
Attachment 19721
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Some things come to mind looking at this:
You say it is a new 2018. It is still 2018; that kind of rust deterioration didn't happen in the short time it sat on CWs lot in my experience.
I don't live in an area with lots of salt but I find it hard to believe that the first protocol of a dealer acquiring an RV from a manufacturer is to go under it and wash the underbelly. I could be wrong but it doesn't happen anywhere I've been.
As you mentioned, we all have a responsibility to "trust but verify" the integrity of a unit before we take possession. That apparently didn't happen so it's hard to lay ALL the blame on CW and Winnebago.
As advanced as that rust is (as it looks in the pics) I almost think the unit/frame was just left sitting in the elements for an extended period during manufacture or ???
Bottom line, I think your beef is with Winnebago and I'd definitely be pulling their strings. For them to say all that would have been prevented had CW washed the underbelly is ludicrous.
On the other hand, if hat fight is going to get crappy there are several products on the market that will eliminate the rust and let you start with a fresh coating (hopefully). Unfortunately it falls on you to do the work and invest the time, but, like so many have found, that is what often times happens when we buy a new RV. Good luck on getting a resolution.
https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Re...Chart-W22.aspx
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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12-29-2018, 07:37 AM
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#49
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Additionally, I'd suggest doing some "research" (snooping) as to where this motorhome was during the flooding in Texas/Florida/North and South Carolina.... I wouldn't accuse CW of being underhanded, but some automobiles that were "in the flood waters" have been turning up at dealerships outside the impacted areas. There's nothing addressed about motorhomes and travel trailers that's surfaced, but there's also nothing (yet) that it hasn't happened.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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12-29-2018, 07:45 AM
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#50
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Kingsport
Posts: 38
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I found Keystone easier to work with than CW. I would NEVER use CW in Hendersonville, NC again. Their service dept. was sloppy, and they didn't really seem to care. The CW in Johnson City, TN has readily fixed all NC's mishaps.
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12-29-2018, 07:58 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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The motorhome may be registered as a 2018, but what year is the chassis?
We were in Indiana in August 2013 for a rally & driving by the factories that assembly class Cs had at least 200-300 cab & chassis sitting in a field next to the plant with weeds as tall as the cabs. It was already August so the newer model cab & chassis were just coming off line at Ford so those in the field were already 1 year model old still sitting in the weeds & the 2014 model rvs were already on the lots, so by the time some of those in the weeds got built the chassis could already be 2 years old. On other forums folks have had issues with a "new" rv with a 1 or 2 year old chassis.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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12-29-2018, 02:12 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,447
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I am sure that in a perfect world, the CW store or manufacturer should make this rust issue right but if it were mine, rather than fuss about lawyers and law suits, I would get a gallon of phosphoric acid and mix it into a solution. Then I would take a wire brush and hit the flaking rust and then soak the areas that are rusted with a sponge in the phosphoric acid solution. Alternatively rust binding commercial products but phosphoric acid solution works better. Of course, you should use eye cover and keep the stuff off you as you work but it isn't as nasty as many acids. This solution will turn the rust to paintable ferric phosphate. It works great in motorcycle gas tanks where the metal is plain steel and tends to rust over time.
If you use a commercial product, most are phosphoric acid based. Here is a good article detailing the differences between many of these products. You will want to paint the treated areas after they become cured and inert. I would recommend Krylon commercial grade spray paint (aerosol cans) but you can shoot the paint with a gun if that is more your bent.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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12-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fruitland
Posts: 3,357
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The people who bring up " I am getting a lawyer involved" always sounds like their really upset. I bet NONE will do it or have done it. Not over anything that is not a realistic pay out into a big number of thousands. And of course the lawyer getting up to 50%. Rust on a underside of a vehicle might cost a grand to have someone to remove rust, prep and spray undercoating to fix it.
If you really want a lawyer involved get an hour of advice 1st. Listen to them when they tell you it may take years. If they are real good they want a detainer up front, you got 10,000 bucks for that. Once you have a lawyer involved no dealer or factory of any product can or will talk to you, they cannot. You paid a lawyer to do all the talking from that point onward. You pay your lawyer 200 bucks an hour to talk to their lawyer. The American way, lawyers need to make money too.
__________________
2013 24RKSWE (27ft TT) Cougar 1/2 ton series SOLD 10-2021
2013 Ford F350 4x4 CC 6.7 engine, 8 ft bed, 3.55 rear end, lariat package
Retired from Oregon State Police in 2011 than worked another 9.5 years as a small town traffic cop:
As of 05-2020, I am all done with 39 years total police work. No more uniforms for me.
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12-30-2018, 01:02 PM
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#54
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,979
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Just a "stuck in my craw" event that happened to me years ago. I bought a clinic in a small rural town in Mississippi. I hired one of my patients (a lawyer) to close on a real estate purchase so I could build a house. He came to the office for his checkup, mentioned that things were going well with the real estate purchase. When I got the bill for his "services" there was a $350 charge dated the day of his appointment. When I asked him about it, he simply said that he spent 90 minutes waiting to tell me things were going well.
It all boiled down to the facts that I charged him $55 for a medical exam and he charged me $350 for a legal update..... Since then, I've been very reluctant to take any lawyer's advice "at face value"....
The above comments about hiring a lawyer to get resolution on a $1000 loss will probably cost you $15000 in legal updates so you can "save the $1000.....
Lawyers..... Where would we be without them ????
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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12-30-2018, 05:34 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,447
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Nonsense! The right lawyer can probably get you a zillion dollar judgement... I would call my buddy Jim:
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
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12-30-2018, 05:42 PM
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#56
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,317
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Danny: all units delivered to our lot get washed the same day so they can get a proper exterior inspection. Unfortunately the underbelly, frame and such are often overlooked by the kids hired to detail units. Paid minimum wage so the quality of work reflects that.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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12-30-2018, 05:59 PM
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#57
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
Danny: all units delivered to our lot get washed the same day so they can get a proper exterior inspection. Unfortunately the underbelly, frame and such are often overlooked by the kids hired to detail units. Paid minimum wage so the quality of work reflects that.
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Thanks Chuck. It makes sense to me in lots of places. Where we live I suspect that they don't even think about it. I've spent a lot of time at our dealerships and watched them prep quite a few RVs cleaning the exterior, working up the interior, putting them in the "fix it" que..but never saw anyone clean under an rv. I doubt they ever think about where they came from to get there.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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02-04-2019, 05:07 PM
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#58
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 87
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.I think Chuckster57 and traveling texans are right. Keystone is not the only one. My son bought a brand new Airstream from a San Diego dealer . They bent over backwards to take care of some minor items that needed attention . But once they signed the papers , and after they took delivery, a camping trip revealed more problems. They barely gave them the time of day and told them the waiting list was more thsn 90 days to bring it in. Total shock. I have had 8 RVs and all have been used. Our current one a 2017 Montana 3950BR is the newest and most luxurious one we have ever had. The previous owner was a rich guy who had a super extended warranty which he paid 100$ every time something went wrong and ths repairman came to him.He tried to transfer it to us but could not. I was pissed when things started going wrong right away. No way I can afford the dealer so I decided to continue fixing stuff myself. which I have always tried to do. This forum has helped me immensely. There are many savvy experts here who take the time to explain things to knuckleheads like me. I have made over a dozen repairs to this RV and have gotten much help from these guys . Like you I was angry at Keystone ,mainly hecause they told me that there was no wiring diagram for this trailer ..total BS. So now I realize l can get the help I need here , so I keep my blood pressure low by just forgoving them. I still gripe about the useless owners manual , but I have met many Keystone employees on line who have tried very hard to help. Sometimes they have . Good luck ...
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02-04-2019, 05:26 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: prophetstown
Posts: 318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough
I think I'm wondering why you're so upset.
You found a defect on day 14 (that should have been found on walk thru), on day 16 the tech looked at it and submitted information for warranty approval that would be in 48 hours?? What is wrong with that?
And, you are absolutely correct; if you don't find the defect before you take it off the lot you are going to have to provide a lot more info than if you didn't take it. Why? Well, after spending many hundreds of nights in hotels, condos etc. etc. I understand it. Many years ago I would never have said it, but these days, I can't believe the craziness that people do "just because". Defacing, breaking things for no reason. Couple that with the dealers that "fudge" as mentioned above and Keystone HAS to make sure what they are paying for is actually something they should pay for.
I'm not implying that you are the kind of person that would do anything like I mentioned, or that your current problem is any of your doing. I'm simply trying to point out the way Keystone looks at it (as would I). Hopefully you get it repaired and you're on the road in short order.
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The salesman ,,, tech ,,, or whatever he is called should be the one to go over it with a fine tooth comb,,, not the buyer,, if you're a 1st time or even 2nd time rv owner you might not have a clue what you're looking at.,, but he should,,, jmho
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