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Old 09-23-2018, 09:21 AM   #51
CWtheMan
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(Tireman9)

They wash their hands of any responsibility or care for the RV once it leaves the dealer lot.

Not entirely. They can't afford to. Self initiated recall action is hardly ever accompanied with NHTSA monitor penalties.

NHTSA initiated recall actions can be very expensive with very high monitory penalties.


Because of that, Keystone does listen to safety complaints and takes action when warranted.


NOTE: All should keep in mind that a complaint against equipment is not a complaint against Keystone. They may be involved with any recall action but the equipment provider will be paying. You should keep that in mind when your trailer is severely damaged from a catastrophic tire/wheel failure.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:27 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
Sorry Tireman9, My goal is to write it the way it's supposed to be, not to what is good for the goose. Most of the current standards were approved in 2007. However, NHTSA and the tire industry keep safety standards current with bulletins, addendums and such.

As I said earlier, the trailer manufacturer is solely responsible for OE tires. Because the FMVSS enforces minimum standards, OE tires are considered a minimum guidance for replacements. Because NHTSA and the tire industry have reinforced tire descriptions, any prefix in the tire size description (P, LT, ST) is part of it's official size description. When the vehicle certification label reads ST225/75R15 the ST tire design is locked-in because of vehicle certification and numerous other NHTSA/tire industry standards.

Is it unsafe to use tires that are from a different design to replace your trailer tires? Probably, if you follow the established tire industry standards for such replacements. However, IMO, if such replacements were ever investigated for safety violations the plus sized tires would be a misapplication if not recommended by the vehicle manufacturer for that fitment.

There are always exceptions and arguments. An exception would be a tire with a LT prefix in it's size designation but is clearly designated by it's manufacturer as being for trailer service only and that info is molded onto its sidewall.

A strong argument could be won when 225/75R17.5 sized tires are used and they were designed for low platform trailer service.

Key word is "minimum" requirement.


Should we interpret your position to mean that if someone had a 2015 RV with an ST225/80R16LR-E but the 2017 model of the same RV with the same GVWR comes with LT235/85R16 LR-G you would say it is incorrect for the owner to go to the LT235's because that was not the size originally approved?
I am not aware of any RV company or car company issuing bullitins suggesting new or better tires on older model trailers. Doesn't the Navy do updates?


If the owner increases the load capacity of the tires please give us the technical reason why this would be bad or why it would not improve the safety of the RV as with going from 0% margin to 10% margin would clearly be an improvement IMO.



If you disagree then I guess folks will need to decide if they want to listen to an actual tire engineer or someone with just an interest in tires
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:45 AM   #53
ChuckS
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In my case my 2014 Alpine came with ST235/80x16E rated 10 ply TK tires.. I upgraded shortly after to LT235/85x16 14 ply G rated tires.. the stock wheels are stamped 110 psi...

2015 Alpine, same model came stock with Provider 235/85x16 tires and same wheels..

Suspension on both years is exactly the same, as are the axles...7K...

It’s obvious to me Keystone knew they had an issue and corrected it on all 2015 Alpines...

Just wrapped up fifth season with my off brand Geo Star tires sold by Les Schwab tires.. I know my rig is safe and I have no worries and could care less what the factory placard states for tire size that it came with...
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:48 AM   #54
CWtheMan
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Key word is "minimum" requirement.


Should we interpret your position to mean that if someone had a 2015 RV with an ST225/80R16LR-E but the 2017 model of the same RV with the same GVWR comes with LT235/85R16 LR-G you would say it is incorrect for the owner to go to the LT235's because that was not the size originally approved?

It's the manufacturer's prerogative and fully supported by FMVSS. It clearly states in the standards that the manufacturer is to fit each trailer with tires they deem appropriate. You cannot change their way of thinking any more than you can change mine.

I am not aware of any RV company or car company issuing bulletins suggesting new or better tires on older model trailers. Doesn't the Navy do updates?

Numerous tire manufacturer's produce bulletins parodically. Toyo seems to have the longest listings. Of course the Navy does updates. They also do some that are retroactive.


If the owner increases the load capacity of the tires please give us the technical reason why this would be bad or why it would not improve the safety of the RV as with going from 0% margin to 10% margin would clearly be an improvement IMO.


I'm sorry if you got the impression I disapprove of increasing existing tire load capacity. There is a right way to do it. As long as It's not done arbitrarily. Increasing a load range from "D" to "E" changes nothing but the load capacity of the tire. The designated size is the same. The tire placard remains valid because both load ranges use the same load inflation chart. To be in compliance with the vehicle manufacturer, an owner should seek their advice before considering design changes or plus sizing. Says so right in the owner's manual. Besides that, it's done by proxy for all normal automotive tire replacements.



If you disagree then I guess folks will need to decide if they want to listen to an actual tire engineer or someone with just an interest in tires

You often give answers outside of the ropes. I strive to avoid that. (aka; FastEagle, Airdale, BlackAces and others.
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