Which would you buy Cougar or Montana HC?

[Uneasyrider]

So we plan on living in this full time and I really like keystone for us. I thought we had picked out the one we want in a Cougar 310RLS but now am checking out Montana High Country units. I am confused as to the difference between Montana and Montana High Country and if the High Country which fits my budget and needs is better for us than a Cougar.

Any input would be most appreciated.

[JimMach1]

Montana if you are full timing it. And we have a cougar but Montana claims better for full timers.

[Mikendebbie]

Testimonials from Cougar owners will be found here.
I had a Laredo before the Montana and found lots of good info here also.

You can go to the Montana Owners Club forums and read much more about experiences with those units.

[JRTJH]

There are some significant differences between the Montana and the Montana High Country. Notably, the HC is a "lightweight model" meaning it has sandwiched floor construction rather than 5/8" solid flooring under the vinyl and carpet. There are some "shorter models" in the HC line that use 10" frame rails with 12" rails on the longer models. In the Montana line, all trailers employ 12" frame rails. The suspension system is different, CRE3000 on the HC and Road Warrior suspension on the Montana.

There are enough differences between the two lines to give anyone cause to compare them but also to contrast them. They are not "the same with just a lower option choices"....

[larry337]

As stated the Montana High Country is a lighter, stripped down version of the Montana. The cougar is lighter yet. Between the 2 I'd choose the Montana HC, mostly because you'll find the drop frame construction offers much larger basement storage areas. If you can afford it, I'd actually just get a real Montana if you plan on living in it. It should hold up longer and be more comfortable in the long run.

[Uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

There are some significant differences between the Montana and the Montana High Country. Notably, the HC is a "lightweight model" meaning it has sandwiched floor construction rather than 5/8" solid flooring under the vinyl and carpet. There are some "shorter models" in the HC line that use 10" frame rails with 12" rails on the longer models. In the Montana line, all trailers employ 12" frame rails. The suspension system is different, CRE3000 on the HC and Road Warrior suspension on the Montana.

There are enough differences between the two lines to give anyone cause to compare them but also to contrast them. They are not "the same with just a lower option choices"....

These are just the kind of things that I am interested in. Forgiving my ignorance, what is sandwiched floor construction? I notice that the axles on the HC have a higher GAWR which I like since I am looking for a short one with the 10" frame rails you are talking about I assume. I this better construction than the Cougar? I think that the frame is from my reading about drop frames which is how I got to this post.

Originally Posted by larry337

As stated the Montana High Country is a lighter, stripped down version of the Montana. The cougar is lighter yet. Between the 2 I'd choose the Montana HC, mostly because you'll find the drop frame construction offers much larger basement storage areas. If you can afford it, I'd actually just get a real Montana if you plan on living in it. It should hold up longer and be more comfortable in the long run.

I don't want to buy a heavy trailer which the Montana seems to be, looking for 10K to 11K empty. Nice to know about the bigger basement, thanks. We want to live 1 month in a park and move on to another for about 8 to 10 years. We used to do this summers in our 40's on a Goldwing during school vacation with nothing that wouldn't fit in closed bags and we were gone 8 weeks at a time for 10 years. We want to spend more than one night in our favorite areas and really get to know them and winter a few months here in Florida.

[NotyetMHCowner]

We have a 2015 Montana High Country 305RL that we plan on full timing in beginning 6/2022 that we purchased new. When we decided to full time, we really wanted a Mobile Suites but already had the HC. We just couldn't justify trading the HC and having to buy a much newer truck (I have a 2006 Ford dually but it wouldn't "legally" tow a Mobile Suites). I would look at used Mobile Suites if you have or will get the proper sized tow vehicle since the Mobile Suites is so heavy.

If you are determined to purchase new and the choice is between the two you mentioned, I would definitely get the High Country. We love our and have had very few issues with it.

[Javi]

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

[Uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by Javi

Just to express my opinion... The Cougar and the Montana HC are not meant to be lived in fulltime... While I really like the floorplan on my Cougar there are many things about the light weight construction that I don't like.. It is serving it's purpose a an occasional trailer but I will buy a much better constructed trailer before we go full time..

A couple of my concerns with the overall construction for full timing.. I would want 7K axles at the minimum, I would want the 12" frame with the 12" drop in front for storage room... I would want the full cap on both the front and rear... These are things that you will regret not getting later, if you ignore them now... Look at the cabinets and furniture big differences... This Cougar is a big step up from our old Passport... but the heavier trailers are a huge step up from this Cougar.. And heavier doesn't have to mean longer... in fact we're looking at 3 ft less trailer now and it's at least 2K heavier..

But whatever you do... don't go light weight on anything... it's a mistake if you are really going to use the trailer as a home..

Could you tell me what the many things that you don't like about the lightweight construction are?

[gearhead]

We had a Cougar XLite for a year, then the Montana HC.
I'm now looking at used DRV, etc.
I have no plans to full time in a trailer.
I would look at a used regular Montana before I bought a new HC.
I would look at a new Grand Design Reflection before I looked at a new HC.

[Uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by gearhead

We had a Cougar XLite for a year, then the Montana HC.
I'm now looking at used DRV, etc.
I have no plans to full time in a trailer.
I would look at a used regular Montana before I bought a new HC.
I would look at a new Grand Design Reflection before I looked at a new HC.

So what am I missing that makes you not like the HC? I have been looking at a standard Cougar 5th wheel, not a half ton or lighter.

[Dave W]

We own a '14 Montana HC. We are very satisfied with what we have. We looked at 5ers from outta sight price wise, regular Montana's, various Forest River products and Cougars, mostly their 327RES. For our dollars we have found that it serves our purpose completely.

Have we had problems, not really anything big, just little niggles. Have a couple component items failed - so far a kitchen water faucet. Have we made upgrades - phew!! For sure, including better tires, heavier suspension, disc brakes and a second a/c.

It is not a 4 season RV though we have managed to put well into the 22-23,000 mile bracket over 4 years and next week begins our late summer travels where we expect another 3-4000 miles to be added.

This 38 footer has the 10" frame and to date, nary a problem. It is NOT, as noted above, a very light 5er at just under 12,000 pounds ready to travel tho with 10 gallons of water regardless of what the brocure info says.

Good bang for your buck and IMHO, a good value. A Cougar - it's not too far behind either and was our 3rd choice

[JRTJH]

As has been posted, fifth wheels vary by much more than just floorplan and features. The construction techniques are not clearly outlined with each brand and vary from brand to brand. What is used in the Montana may not be used in the Montana HC, but is used in the Cougar but not the Cougar Half Ton.

Essentially, it's "sort of safe to say" that the Montana and the Cougar employ "heavy weight construction techniques" while the Montana HC and Cougar Half Ton employ "light weight construction techniques"... That is NOT a "hard and fast rule" and many of the "heavy construction" features are incorporated in the Montana HC while some of the "light weight" features are used in the Cougar line.

Confusing ???? Just wait until you try to figure out just what is and what is not in each trailer line.... When you try to build a comparison using a checklist, you'll find that even within a given brand lineup, you'll have some models that use one kind of construction while others use a different technique. Example: 10" vs 12" frame rails while still using the "drop front frame".... Then start adding lighter axles, lower headroom in the front of the trailer (bedroom on most models), 6'6" slide headroom vs 6' headroom, laminated floor vs solid floor, rear cap vs hanging rear wall.

It's extremely difficult to "line things up for an apples to apples comparison, even when you go right down to the component level. Just when you think you've got it figured out, along comes an optional package that changes three things when it adds one more.

Essentially, the biggest difference between the Montana and the Montana HC is the "light weight construction techniques" used in the HC. For me (others may disagree completely) that alone would cause me to lean toward the Montana and away from the HC line. Having a Cougar XLite with the laminated floor (luan/Styrofoam/luan) in place of a solid floor with insulation under it is my only experience with the "sandwich floor". Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the performance even though it reduces overall trailer weight.

To add to this already confusing post, consider that the Cougar is a "mid height" trailer with "mostly heavy trailer construction" but weighs about the same as the HC which is "mostly light weight construction". That extra weight is added by "luxury, real wood cabinet stiles and appearance items" while the "weight is removed by using "Styrofoam rather than solid decking" in the floor. So, what you see in the HC "looks like a Montana" but doesn't perform as such......

Whew, I'm glad I'm not the one trying to decide what to buy.... Good Luck.

[NotyetMHCowner]

We are keeping our HC as a full time rig because it gets us on the road sooner. To purchase a larger truck and take a possible loss on our HC for a DRV would require us to stay home longer than we desire.

We love our HC but if we had it to do over again, we would buy a used DRV for the same price we paid for our rig. Then I would have bought a newer F350 or F450 and we would have had about the same money tied up.

That is why I suggested a used Mobile Suites if you know you're full timing. They are built much better than any of the other trailers listed in the thread. We found a 2015 DRV Mobile Suites 34TKS (IIRC) for the mid $50k's. That's almost what we paid for our new 2015 HC.

Like I said before, if you are dead set on a new unit, I would go HC. A new DRV is just under $100k.

[Uneasyrider]

We desire these features:

1) 5th Wheel
2) 10 to 11 thousand pounds
3) 2.5 X 50 shower
4) 2500 pounds of payload
5) 12 CI refrigerator 12V/propane
6) King size bed
7) Washer and dryer hookups
8) Bike rack
9) Dual A/C units

We don't need a lot of space as we are used to traveling light. We just want to put in a decent mattress, swap the dinette for a couple of laptop stations, install some solar panels. So a small 5th wheel sounds great, just trying to insure that we buy one with good build quality. Your help is appreciated.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by Uneasyrider

So what am I missing that makes you not like the HC? I have been looking at a standard Cougar 5th wheel, not a half ton or lighter.

I don't like the floor..it is getting soft in places.
I don't like the cable operated slides.
The kitchen slide jerks terribly unless I drown it in WD40 Specialist PTFE. I'm pretty sure it is going to break the wall/floor joint some day. Some owners have had their slide modified and paid for by Keystone. Not me.
The Dometic fridge has been bad from day 1, it just sorta works. I'm even tired of talking about it! Not a Keystone product, but they bought it.
Probably what frustrates me most is the oxidation of the Filon exterior walls. I have worked my rear off trying to clean and protect the exterior. It gets beat on hard by the Texas sun though.
The most recent issue is the 2 theatre seats are just disintegrating. The leather is just melting away. It is not "real" leather but pieces of leather glued together called bonded leather.
We found the 2 pendant lights over the sink hanging by their wires after a day on the road. They were just screwed into cardboard/luan ceiling.
It's not like this trailer is used heavily. Just 2, maybe 3 trips a year of 2-4 weeks.
When we bought it I put a 5th Airborne pinbox on it to help the ride. Had a wet bolt kit installed and replaced the China bomb tires with Maxxis.
So if there is a next one it will have:
Full body paint. Hopefully 17.5" tires. A good floor. Better slide operators. Real leather. Residential refrigerator.
I'm looking at used DRV and maybe Heartland Landmark. Or a Montana 3121RL.
If you want a smaller 5th, I would check out Northwoods. You might have to drive 1,000 miles to find one. But, any authorized warranty center can work on the components. You don't want a dealer to attempt repairs anyway.












k

[larry337]

Originally Posted by gearhead

I don't like the floor..it is getting soft in places.
I don't like the cable operated slides.
The kitchen slide jerks terribly unless I drown it in WD40 Specialist PTFE. I'm pretty sure it is going to break the wall/floor joint some day. Some owners have had their slide modified and paid for by Keystone. Not me.
The Dometic fridge has been bad from day 1, it just sorta works. I'm even tired of talking about it! Not a Keystone product, but they bought it.
Probably what frustrates me most is the oxidation of the Filon exterior walls. I have worked my rear off trying to clean and protect the exterior. It gets beat on hard by the Texas sun though.
The most recent issue is the 2 theatre seats are just disintegrating. The leather is just melting away. It is not "real" leather but pieces of leather glued together called bonded leather.
We found the 2 pendant lights over the sink hanging by their wires after a day on the road. They were just screwed into cardboard/luan ceiling.
It's not like this trailer is used heavily. Just 2, maybe 3 trips a year of 2-4 weeks.
When we bought it I put a 5th Airborne pinbox on it to help the ride. Had a wet bolt kit installed and replaced the China bomb tires with Maxxis.
So if there is a next one it will have:
Full body paint. Hopefully 17.5" tires. A good floor. Better slide operators. Real leather. Residential refrigerator.
I'm looking at used DRV and maybe Heartland Landmark. Or a Montana 3121RL.
If you want a smaller 5th, I would check out Northwoods. You might have to drive 1,000 miles to find one. But, any authorized warranty center can work on the components. You don't want a dealer to attempt repairs anyway.












k

I agree with all of this but the same issues exist in all makes and models. Hundreds of internet posts regarding the fridge and cheap leather. 80k dollar Grand Design Solitudes have the same cheap leather. I too will have a residential fridge next time, body paint would be nice, don't have an answer on the furniture. The cable slides have worked well for me but they do require adjusting. I did have a cable break and a motor fail both of which I replaced myself. Hydraulic would be preferred. I'm of the opinion they're all junk in all price ranges and you have to be able to fix things yourself. My first must have is the floorplan, after that my list is similar to yours. Brand is pretty much irrelevant at this point because I already know **** is gonna break. I may even look for used and let someone else take the initial depreciation hit.

[gearhead]

At this point a red Corvette and a Hilton Rewards card sounds pretty good to me.

[larry337]

Originally Posted by gearhead

At this point a red Corvette and a Hilton Rewards card sounds pretty good to me.

[goducks]

Check out the new Grand Design S class 5th wheels. Same Solitude build but less bling and $$$.