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Old 05-31-2018, 09:35 AM   #21
busterbrown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH View Post
Get a propride hitch, it will never sway again.
Or a Hensley. Both are sway "elimination" hitches. The investment is steep at first but worth it in the long run.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:40 AM   #22
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You can try whatever you wish all they do; Hensley and Pro Pride, is make a trailer tow like a fifth wheel from all I have read. Having towed a fifth wheel several times you still get the bow wave or cross wind effect. The e4 and the trailer I am pulling I really can`t tell much difference in the two; both tow great under normal towing conditions. I have never towed in the conditions John stated above nor would I really look forward doing it. If I was pulling or got caught out in stuff like that I would surely slow way down and let the rig`s feed back tell me what I needed to do.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:07 AM   #23
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Great input from all. Especially driving the Plains at night. I’m going to change trailer tires, check/adjust the hitch and go from there. I’m fairly certain the hitch is out because of the wear pattern on the leading edge of the wear pads. I have to tow to a level (and preferably shady) spot to check it.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:22 AM   #24
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I'd think with your rig you'll be fine within the limitations of "being reasonable about what you expect".... Go with what you have and the new tires if they are already planned, but as for spending lots on "improvements" without knowing if you even need them.... Probably not the wisest way to spend money....

As for setup, late afternoon, on the edge of the WalMart parking lot with a good yardstick and a cooler of something cold and wet.... Better yet, if there's a Sonic next door, a Route 44 Cherry Limeade and a folding lawn chair so you can take a break to "contemplate" your measurements.....
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:09 PM   #25
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But the "bow-wave" that is being discussed will still push your rig. Sway isn't the only thing that affects tow vehicle/trailer handling.
Late response: But the TT and TV get nudged as one, much like a TV on its own which we are all conditioned to.

Looks like you addressed this in a later post.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterbrown View Post
Or a Hensley. Both are sway "elimination" hitches. The investment is steep at first but worth it in the long run.
I think my propride was around $1,250, military discount. Support was great from them, i can even text the owner when i had questions. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway, just a satisfied customer.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:48 PM   #27
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BamaRam

I've read this thread twice and I still have some concerns about what we're talking about. Pulling the bumper pull you have 2 primary types of movement; the "push" coming from winds or vehicles that push the bow wave of air and the "sway" which is when the trailer wants to start moving back and forth forcing the driver to try to compensate.

Push is just there, it's not going to go away and you are going to feel it. You can minimize it but it won't go away. Sway can be greatly controlled to eliminated depending on the type of attachment you have at the TV.

In your case I think you may be talking about sway. Your trailer is almost 36' long. You have a short bed truck. You have a 2 point friction hitch. I don't see how the hitch is adequate. I've pulled trailers (much smaller than my current trailer) with a 2 point friction hitch and they leave a lot to be desired when it comes to controlling sway. I currently use the Equalizer 4 point with my trailer (about 37') and 2500 HD 4x4. I get some push but I don't worry about it or watch for upcoming semis because it is so minimal. I don't have sway. I HAVE had it twitch in West TX winds when it's blowing 30-40 mph in one direction then suddenly whips and hits you from the opposite. Those make me put both hands on the wheel but they are very infrequent.

You said you have LRE tires on the truck. I'm assuming they're 80psi. Replacing the tires on the trailer might help if you go up a load range and get stiffer sidewalls. Do you have LRD tires on it now? If so, going to the Carlisle HD LRE is a huge difference. There was no comparison in the weight and stiffness between the Trailer Kings and the new Carlisles. They make the trailer ride much more stable. Also, looking at the weight of your trailer, if you have LRD tires, IMO they are already overloaded and need to be replaced regardless with the LRE. I don't think the new tires did much for any sway and I'm afraid they won't do much for you either - hopefully they will, but I have my doubts.

The primary driver of sway is the trailer. How it affects YOU is how the truck handles it. You have new tires and new shocks. What about springs? The truck is about 14 years old with the potential of carrying well over 1000 lbs. on the back of the truck at the hitch. They need to be in REALLY good shape for them not to be affected by the actions of the trailer. How has the truck been used in its life? For work? Carrying loads? Those things will play into how well the springs have held up.

You said you're worried about when to give up trying to fix "the problem". I would say....when it's fixed. Without some experience I know that is a large order. So, let me say it this way;

Prior to this truck I was pulling with a new Ram 1500 decked out for towing. I was in exactly the position you describe; constantly watching for semis or fast moving cars, hands on the wheel gripped so tight you could see fingerprints, constantly correcting for what seemed like a zillion little twitches, swerves etc. etc. I HATED to go anywhere towing. I loved camping but dreaded the drive so much. What fixed it? The new 2500 HD. Still have the same Equalizer 4 point and it's adjusted where it needs to be. Same trailer loaded just as it was. I LOVE taking off and towing now. No white knuckles. No watching every mirror every second dreading something to come my way. No constant adjusting. I can drive all day long with one hand (I don't generally unless my hands need to take a break).

With all that said, my answer would be to stop trying to "fix" it when you reach the point I have. You can try to adjust the E2 to the perfect setting and see if that helps but I don't think you will ever control that big of a trailer with that hitch - especially when you hit windy country. If that fails I would sell the E2 and put on the E4. If that still doesn't work I would replace the springs (or springs first then hitch).

I know it's easy for me to point out ways for you to spend your time and money but towing isn't, and should not be, a nightmare. To me it says something is out of whack and needs to be fixed. You have a new rig and are new to towing; I wish you the very best of luck in getting it sorted out. As you try things and they do or don't work please post back and maybe someone can help.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:16 PM   #28
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Sourdough I thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. My truck has new front springs. Replaced them because they were sagging under the weight of the Cummins. The truck has not been worked since bought it at 41k miles. I did note when I bought it that the receiver had not been used. And I did a visual and pry bar inspection of the rear springs and no wear is evident. Also inspected every bushing on it. It has 104k on it now.

The tires are inflated at 50 front, 70 rear. I set them by the truck manufacturer specs for the tires that are on the truck. The max inflation for the tire is 80 and I have considered taking them up to the max. But from my reading on the subject it is recommended to use the vehicle manufacturer inflation. Maybe I’ll ask around on the Ram forums.

And the difference between push and sway is duly noted.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:25 PM   #29
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You might see what the difference is. The new 2500 specs are 65 front and 80 rear. I don't know what precipitated that but running the tire at 80 psi vs 70 will make virtually no difference in tire wear (you can always carry a depth gauge to keep an eye on them) but it might make a difference in the towing experience.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSH View Post
I think my propride was around $1,250, military discount. Support was great from them, i can even text the owner when i had questions. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway, just a satisfied customer.
That's better pricing than what had with my Hensley. Paid $1899 OTD for a reconditioned hitch. Looked brand new and has the same lifetime warranty for all the components. Still looks new at the start of our 3rd season.

For me, the guarantee for a "sway-less" towing experience sold me. Didn't want to have another $600 invested in sway "control". The Blue Ox Sway Pro was already money lost. YMMV.

I, too, am beyond satisfied with my investment.
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:44 PM   #31
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Just went to their website. Maybe i payed 2200$, whatever it was when i had my 1500 ram eco diesel it made the world of difference with sway from every semi that passed me. On my new 2500 it works even better but that's probably because the truck weighs more than the trailer.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:20 AM   #32
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to the OP question.

I find this to be normal. I pull a 37 foot bumper pull 10500lbs.. i do feel a slight pull when big rigs or even large panel vans pass me. I anticipate and adjust when this happens but i am not worried out it.. so once again, i bleive this to be normal
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:44 AM   #33
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IMHO as long as it is swaying together as one unit ,thats just part of the game. It is when they start moving independent of each other when its bad. I pull a 36 ft toy hauler with a 8.1 2500 sunurban and I have had it be a white knuckled Drive home.
The next time loaded the trailer different and as the big trucks come by it just moves us together.
When it is really windy I fill the fresh water tank up. The thought behind it is , to add more weight down low. I think it helps in MO.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:55 AM   #34
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We tow a 31' overall, ~6,500 lb (trip loaded) travel trailer with a 2013 F150 Platinum Screw 4x4 SB 3.5 Ecoboost with Max Tow, 3.73 EL rear using a Blue Ox Sway Pro. We get a little bit of the push pull if a semi really blows by us. It's not a real big deal and we have used this setup for 30,000 miles, including a trip to Alaska. I think it is probably normal, with the 1/2 ton trucks. I am not running so-called China bomb tires and my tires are balanced. You should not need to manually use your brake controller to correct it unless it should happen to create a serious sway event. I have never needed to use it. I do not really consider the push pull effect a sway event.

BTW, we also used to live in Colorado and make the trip on I-70 frequently, so I am well aware of the crosswinds a previous poster mentioned; however, I have never felt beat up from them unless they get really serious, strong gusts. The best thing is to simply get off the highway and wait it out, but that's not too feasible sometimes, so next best is to slow down.
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Old 06-07-2018, 02:49 PM   #35
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I have a Premier 19FBPR and when new we towed it with a Toyota 4Runner. I had a similar problem when trucks passes me at high speed. As the truck went by it would suck us closers. My trailer was properly balanced and has the proper weight distribution hitch and a friction anti sway bar.
The Problem was the Toyota 4Runner. The short wheel base was not stable enough.
My solution was a Toyota 4x4 TUNDRA. Longer wheelbase, lots more weight and power. No problem since.
Hope this helps.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:56 PM   #36
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I found one other variable for sensitivity to crosswinds that I don't think has been mentioned-your truck tires. We had a tread separation occur in I40 east of Groom Texas at highway speed (in the dark). I was able to limp it in to the tire business in Groom and put 2 new rear tires on truck, same rating as stock (LR E I believe). After the new tires were installed, the truck was MORE sensitive to sidewinds than before. Driving across west Texas in a 40 mph side wind duststorm was challenging, but not as bad as it was for some of the other vehicles I saw. I am not a tire engineer and do not know why the truck is more sensitive, the tires were similar to what it had except lots more tread.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:47 PM   #37
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I appreciate everyone's input. Here's the plan. Carlisle HD LRE trailer tires. Check/Adjust hitch, have the axles weighed while loaded and balance weight / adjust pressures accordingly. I know it's better to weigh the wheels individually but I cant find a those type scales. Too bad I don't hang around aircraft maintenance facilities anymore. Cat scales are just down the road.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:54 PM   #38
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Well I'm in Colorado and have some things to report.

I have new Carlisle HD LREs on the trailer.

When I checked the hitch (in a parking lot in town) before the trip I found that the hitch was lifting the back of the truck higher than the unloaded height. I found that the unloaded ball was two 1.5 holes higher than the trailer tongue when the trailer was level. So i lowered it one hole. Then it started raining so i towed it home and called it good.

I couldn't tell a lot of difference in the push-pull of the trucks but Tennessee in thunderstorms was scary. Got in a strong crosswind going down hill and had to get on the trailer brake to straighten out. On my first over-night I lowered the L-brackets down one hole to the lowest setting.

It towed a lot better with very little push-pull from the trucks but the was no discernible cross wind.

I didn't unhook on the 3rd stop and was looking at the rig sitting in a level spot. That's when I realized the bars weren't parallel to the trailer frame so I added a washer. It only had 4 installed.

Kansas was good to me. No wind that day. I was a able to get from Topeka to Goodland running 65mph with very little push-pull from trucks.

Then eastern Colorado happened. Bad crosswind causing sway down hills. As long as i was pulling a hill it was okay. It was 50mph all the way.

So since it's downhill all the way back to Alabama I need to figure this out.

Couple of things i noticed is that the trailer and truck are not level with each other (about an inch) when i look over that cab of the truck at the pump. And one bar has more tension than the other when i put the bars onto the L-bracket. I'm wondering if it's because i run with no fresh water in the tank.

I also noticed (in the parking lot at home) that when the trailer is level in pitch on flat pavement, one frame rail is about 3/4" higher than the other.

Would the manufacturer build roll into the trailer expecting me to haul a full tank of fresh water? The label says the CCC is with a full tank.

i know I'm stumbling through this and I came close to pulling into an RV dealer to have them check my rig. Then I remembered it was a dealer who set it up to begin with.

What do y'all think?
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:10 PM   #39
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Bama, it sure sounds like the hitch setup to me. And no, I don't think Keystone built a "roll" into the frame in the anticipation that you would fill the tanks. Your truck should be plenty for it IF; you have good shocks, good tires etc. I did not reread the thread but, do you have the manual for your hitch? Have you gone thru it exactly like they say? If your bars are different on each side something is wrong IMO. I don't like strong side winds (35-40 mph) but they do nothing for the driving except keep a strong force from one side and I compensate at the wheel...I don't like it when I hit something (wind row) that stops the wind force and everything just "lets go".
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:49 PM   #40
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do you have the manual for your hitch? Have you gone thru it exactly like they say?
Yes i have the manual and when I went through exactly as it says, it said something like "results may vary". Not sure if I'm there yet because i was rained out. I cant stop pulling and camping long enough to check it again.
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