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08-02-2018, 07:26 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 14
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Why does EMS trip when A/C starts
Scenario
Trailer = 2018 Cougar RES311. Wired for 50amp. But only one A/C unit.
EMS = Progressive Industries PT50 (new)
Cable at trailer = 50AMP
Campgroung pedestal= 30AMP
Dogbone 30Male to 50Female at pedestal and plug in EMS, connect trailer cable to EMS
Water heater on electric
Fridge in electric
Issue
Everything is fine until A/C kicks in or hair dryer starts. When AC kicks in, EMS trips and shuts down. Says low voltage line 2.
Most of the campgrounds we have available only have , 30AMP service. Our previous trailer had no issues whatsoever with Progressive PT30, hot water tank and AC. Only difference was that trailer had 30 AMP cable.
How can we use 30AMP pedestal service with our new trailer?
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08-02-2018, 07:35 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,356
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Run things on LP to reduce the load.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-02-2018, 07:36 PM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,695
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What size is the AC would be my first thought. If it has run on 30A before, was it the same campground, same dogbone etc? Are you getting some sort of loss at the 50A to 30A connection? If you kick the WH to LP what happens?
You have to realize that there is no, NO comparison between a 50A trailer and a 30A trailer. Your previous trailer (30A) may or may not have been able to pull 30A. Your 50A trailer can pull 100A. Depending on what you are trying to run you could very easily pull too much power from a 30A plug with a 50A trailer. What the dogbone does is effectively split a 30A service and run it to ALL the devices that would normally require 50A. If you aren't paying attention you will blow the breaker continually.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
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08-02-2018, 07:43 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Grand Haven
Posts: 54
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Does the ems give an error code? When my ems shuts down the power then comes back up it has a "previous error" and code number. That would tell you what the problem was.
Sounds like low voltage maybe? Depending on the campground wiring, too much drain you can see a temporary voltage drop and the ems will shut it down. Try it again with switching some things to lp? Can you watch the voltage with a voltmeter while you turn on some of your systems?
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08-02-2018, 07:44 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rockett, TX
Posts: 481
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Maybe try the 30A EMS instead of the 50?
__________________
Jerry & Debbie
with Fur Babies Sasha & Sam
2018 Alpine 3401RS
2019 Ford F350 SRW
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08-02-2018, 07:49 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rockett, TX
Posts: 481
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didn't finish my thought .... I always use the my 30A when connected with a 30 to 50 dog-bone, I just always thought that if I used the 50A it would not protect correctly with only 30A available.
__________________
Jerry & Debbie
with Fur Babies Sasha & Sam
2018 Alpine 3401RS
2019 Ford F350 SRW
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08-02-2018, 07:56 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Grand Haven
Posts: 54
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Oh I see now, you said the system said low voltage. I missed that the first time around. I would wonder about the campground's power. I had a similar issue on our first time out. AC wouldn't work, microwave wouldn't heat. Turned out the campground had some really bad wiring, too much load throughout the park and the voltage dropped when I tried to do anything. It wasn't the trailer, as I've not had those problems since.
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08-02-2018, 07:59 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Turn fridge & water heater to LP (gas). You don't need a 30 amp ems, the 50 as you're using it should work just fine & is proving it does work. When on 30 amp service you'll have to budget big amp draw items like the microwave, hair dryer when the ac tries to start.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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08-02-2018, 08:04 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 14
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Thanks everybody for the responses so far. I just want to make sure I interpret correctly.
With the trailer setup for 50 AMP, I will need to look for 50 AMP service pedestal to run everything electric? I was hoping to not use LP, as I have to pay for it.
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08-02-2018, 09:02 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Divide
Posts: 267
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I had the same problem, same scenario today with my hardwired Progressive EMS. Got an error 6 and was reading 107 volts on circuit 2 .
Was micky waving some taters while the AC was on. After it reset I tried to duplicate the problem (without the taters, just some water ) and the voltage was at 115 on both phases. It may have been the perfect storm with all of the appliances running at once, or a weak voltage supply.
__________________
2018 Hideout 31RBDS TT
2004.5 Ram Quadcab Short Box 2500 5.9HO, 2WD, Auto, 373s, Edge Insight CTS2.
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08-03-2018, 04:20 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Grand Haven
Posts: 54
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Water heater pulls a lot on electric, I think mine is in the neighborhood of 12 amps. Fridge isn't as bad, but add in a microwave and AC and I'll trip my 30 amp service easily.
We just installed the EMS before this last trip, and over the weekend my wife was looking at the display and asked, "what do I need that number to be?". It was reading 42 amps! So I quickly switched the water heater over to gas while she finished cooking with the electric appliances.
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08-03-2018, 04:34 AM
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#12
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefster
Water heater pulls a lot on electric, I think mine is in the neighborhood of 12 amps. Fridge isn't as bad, but add in a microwave and AC and I'll trip my 30 amp service easily.
We just installed the EMS before this last trip, and over the weekend my wife was looking at the display and asked, "what do I need that number to be?". It was reading 42 amps! So I quickly switched the water heater over to gas while she finished cooking with the electric appliances.
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Depending on model, fridges can have dual elements drawing 2500 Watts.
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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08-03-2018, 05:45 AM
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#13
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,760
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It's a matter of balancing/managing your amperage load. We have 30 amp service and 15k air cond. When setting up I turn on the ac, let fridge auto to ac as it's already cool sono initial cool down there. HW on propane until it heats up then if voltage is good change over to electric or both if I'm going to take a shower. If DW uses microwave she knows to turn air con to fan only. She didn't remember until I installed the EMS. Before that she would just look at me and say "what happened" when everything shut off. With the EMS causing a 2 minute delay before restoring power she's more careful. I guess waiting 2 min ina hot camper gives one time to think.
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Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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08-03-2018, 08:43 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Picacho, Az
Posts: 6,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJMB01
Thanks everybody for the responses so far. I just want to make sure I interpret correctly.
With the trailer setup for 50 AMP, I will need to look for 50 AMP service pedestal to run everything electric? I was hoping to not use LP, as I have to pay for it.
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Yes, if you want to be able run EVERYTHING off electric you'll have to connect to a 50 amp service or run some things on LP to conserve.
Your fridge & water heater are very economical on LP, probably run both for a month+ on a 20# bottle.
__________________
Full-timed 10+ years
Sold '13 Redwood FB
Traded '13 GMC Denali DRW D/A
Replacement undetermined
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08-03-2018, 10:13 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 438
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With everything on electric as stated above and possibly the voltage at the pedestal at the low end of acceptable (what does the EMS show for voltage before turning on the AC?), the AC's start up current is too much. Might actually work without the EMS but then you risk damaging your AC because of low voltage.
It is possible that something like the MicroAir Easy Start would reduce AC startup current enough for it to work but no guarantee.
__________________
Bill
2015 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel
2015 Cougar 26RBI
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08-12-2018, 08:05 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 58
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When comparing to your old 30A trailer, your new 50A trailer probably has a larger hot water tank, larger air conditioner and maybe a larger fridge. Ultimately, if you are drawing too much you’ll have to run something on LP.
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08-12-2018, 08:33 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Eastern GTA
Posts: 195
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I agree with the other posters that you’re drawing too much current running the AC and the water heater simultaneously on a 30A service. I tried that once and my EMS was saying 27A.
In the heat of summer with everyone’s AC running at full blast, I got tried of seeing voltage drop low enough for the EMS to shut down power, so I bought a Hughes Autoformer to boost the voltage and I manage the amp draw by using propane to heat the water.
__________________
2023 Rockwood Signature 8262RBS
2016 Ford F-250 XLT SuperCrew, 6.2L, 4x4, 6'9" bed, 3.73
2019 Rockwood Signature 8290BS (2019-2023)
2011 Rockwood Signature 8293SS (2014-2018)
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08-12-2018, 12:33 PM
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#18
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Full Timer
Posts: 8
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Balancing the load is the Answer as stated.
Just to help clarify 50Amp service means there are two wires feeding your RV with 50 amps each. Note: your 50 amp plug is four prongs. They are Common, Ground and Leg 1 and Leg 2. Each leg has 50 amps of current. So in reality your can use almost 90 amps of power if you properly balance the load. Your power panel comes into play there. This is a future discussion.
Now 30 amps is three prongs. They are common, ground and Leg 1. The dog bone adaptor takes leg 1 (on the 30 amp side) and shares it wild leg 2 on the 50 amp socket. This means actually you have only 30 amps of power to use. You have to monitor your use closely. You can run only ONE 15amp power source at a time (AC, hair dryer, microwave, etc). If your converter (battery charger) and water heater (on electric) are both working hard you have to watch it close.
Since you have the EMS hopefully it have the voltage and current draw readings you can monitor these issues.
The low voltage protected your RV from a “brown out” which could hurt motors etc. When there is too much current draw and the power source is “old - for lack of better words” the heavy current draw by many RV can drop the voltage below the 104 volts level and tripping your EMS. It is doing what you bought it for.
I hope this helps explain what happened. Most important the EMS saved your RV and is doing its job. I Recommend EMS to every RVer I talk too.
Safe travels
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John and Shirley - John, MSGT USMC/RET 66-86 2651 KO4A
2017 Ram 3500: 4x4, dually, Hensley Trail saiver air ride, LINE X bed liner, TST tire monitor ,
2017 Montana 3721: Progressive Industries Surge Protection, MorRyde IS suspension and electric over hydraulic disc brakes.
God Bless America and God Bless our Troops[/CENTER]
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08-12-2018, 01:52 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Green Valley
Posts: 124
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We have 50A service on our Montana. When we have a 30A pedestal, we have yet to have a problem, running 1 A/C, fridge on electric, water heater on electric. The "low voltage" error signal you got says the campground is the problem. If you had adequate power, and you tried to draw more than 30 amps, breaker in the RV would trip.
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