Front Radius Filon Dents/Wrinkles?

[Tbos]

3 weeks ago we put our 2016 Passport 2810 in the Storage lot. I left the vents partially open and all cabinet doors are open inside. The TT had no dents or wrinkles in the filon front cap when I parked it. We have had a lot of rain off and on including thunder storms. There is no sign of water intrusion. Prior to storing it the Dicor along the top front seam was good. I will inspect it again. I looked at old posts but there doesn't seem to be any resolution. Does anyone have anyone have any ideas?


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[Brown Lantern]

That looks like delamination to me and it's scary considering my Coleman is pretty much the same design. Had a service guy tell me once that most people don't consider the marker lights as an intrusion point. Did you check them?

Sent from my KFGIWI using Tapatalk

[Tbos]

I went back over and checked the inside. No sign of water intrusion anywhere. A little over a year ago we had a front clearance light leak but that was quickly fixed. I didn't look at the lights tonight but the Dicor seems to be ok from the ladder. It got dark too quickly to get on the roof and look closer. Here's a close up picture. I could push in on the Filon where it is wrinkled but it didn't seem to be delaminated. Hard to tell. It is always more firm near the edge. How do I tell if it is delamination?


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[Brown Lantern]

Originally Posted by Tbos

I went back over and checked the inside. No sign of water intrusion anywhere. A little over a year ago we had a front clearance light leak but that was quickly fixed. I didn't look at the lights tonight but the Dicor seems to be ok from the ladder. It got dark too quickly to get on the roof and look closer. Here's a close up picture. I could push in on the Filon where it is wrinkled but it didn't seem to be delaminated. Hard to tell. It is always more firm near the edge. How do I tell if it is delamination?Attachment 13739


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/rv-sidewall-delamination/

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

[Tbos]

Brown lantern, I looked at the link. The thing is there are no bubbles like what I've seen in delamination. The front wall is not bonded. These are all indentations, almost as if I had hit something and broke the backing on the Filon. I do regular roof inspections and have added Dicor as needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Brown Lantern]

I can tell by the pic it was never properly sealed. The metal strip where your roof and the Filon meets should have been completely covered with Dicor from the factory. I've bought 2 new travel trailers in the past 4 years and both were completely covered.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by Brown Lantern

I can tell by the pic it was never properly sealed. The metal strip where your roof and the Filon meets should have been completely covered with Dicor from the factory. I've bought 2 new travel trailers in the past 4 years and both were completely covered.

Not every manufacturer completely covers the screw strip. It doesn't look like delamination, but looking at a small phone screen isn't like being there. Is the wrinkled area real soft to the touch? Did you have a cover on it?

[Tbos]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Not every manufacturer completely covers the screw strip. It doesn't look like delamination, but looking at a small phone screen isn't like being there. Is the wrinkled area real soft to the touch? Did you have a cover on it?

I did not have a cover on it. To touch the whole area flexes not just the surface. It is not soft to the touch, still firm.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[chuckster57]

It's probably a cosmetic issue more than a "failure" of some sort. If your still within warranty or maybe a few months out, you might want to contact your dealer and see if Keystone might have more information on a "fix".

[Tbos]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

It's probably a cosmetic issue more than a "failure" of some sort. If your still within warranty or maybe a few months out, you might want to contact your dealer and see if Keystone might have more information on a "fix".

I'm 10 months out of warranty. I have an annual maintenance/inspection scheduled next month. I may have to leave it there for them to try and work it with Keystone. Thanks.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[chuckster57]

If it's determined that it's cosmetic, then I wouldn't count on much help. Replacing the front cap would probably be $1500-$2000.

[Dave B]

I have the exact same problem on the front of my trailer and there is no easy, cheap fix. The engineering on these (not just this brand - it's most all of them) is garbage.

In order to make that tight radius at the top, manufacturers use either a pre-molded fiberglass shell or flexible filon that you and I have. The filon is a very thin flexible fiberglass material that has to be backed up with something, and that's the problem. They use what is essentially cardboard. If it delaminates due to moisture, heat or insufficient glue, the filon begins to roll and buckle like you see in your trailer.

The only fix is to completely replace the front panel.
1. Use the same process that was used from the factory which means you just have another ticking time bomb.
2. Use a double layer of filon bonded together. I have not personally seen this done but I'm told it works. Of course it doubles your cost.
3. Replace it with some other material like aluminum sheet that will take that bend. I've seen a nice YouTube video of this and it's what I plan to do this winter.

Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brown Lantern]

It's hard to diagnose a picture and I'm definitely not a RV tech but if it were me that seam would either be completely covered with Dicor or Eternabond.

Dave B, could you share a link to that video?

[JRTJH]

About half of Keystone brands (that I've seen) cover the aluminum transition strip completely with DICOR. The other half apply DICOR to the front and rear unions, front is aluminum to FILON and rear is aluminum to TPO. Then they apply DICOR to cover every screw on the aluminum transition strip. The only difference between the two processes is covering the aluminum. To be very frank, aluminum won't leak, so either process is "mechanically" the same. On my Cougar there are two "strips of DICOR" and a "bunch of blobs" over the screws. It's 4 years old and has never leaked. I wouldn't be concerned if the aluminum transition strip isn't completely covered with DICOR. That's a cosmetic not a waterproofing issue.

As for the FILON, it appears that it is "oil canning". When the sun "superheats" the FILON, it will expand. That expansion causes it to become longer and wider. The extra length and width "have to go somewhere" and since the transition strip stops upward movement and the two side moldings stop lateral movement so the only thing the FILON can do is buckle. There is, as was posted previously, a "backer strip" to support the FILON in the curve. Sometimes that is glued to the FILON sometimes it's just laid against the "backer strip" to mold it to the curve. Usually it's "laid in place" with gentle curves as in your Passport. So, "delamination" or "separation of the adhesive" between the FILON and "backer strip" is probably not the issue.

If I were to make an "uneducated guess" based on the pictures posted, I'd suggest that the FILON got super hot from the sun, expanded and buckled (oil canning). It may, once the weather cools, return to "sort of like it was"... But chances are it's going to remain "deformed, at least a little" from now on.

Is it a problem? Only cosmetic. Should you repair it? Up to you, but you'll never get your money's worth on trade, so only repair it for your "satisfaction" not for "protection of the investment". Will it get worse? Probably not. Is it going to leak? No, just keep the transition strip sealed and monitor the clearance lights.

It's unfortunate and none of us want this to happen to our trailer, but sometimes it does. As for Keystone "stepping up to the plate". It probably won't happen. That said, if the dealership has some influence with the Keystone area rep and they're looking to sell you another trailer, they may be able to negotiate some help from Keystone, but I wouldn't count on anything other than, "We're sorry, but we won't be participating in your repair."

[Tbos]

Thanks everyone. I am hoping to trade it next year so maybe the dealer will work with me. The storage lot is open and exposed to full sun most of the time so it sounds like the overheating explanation may be the accurate one. I'll keep an eye on it and let you know what the dealer says when I see them next month.
I'd like to see the video of that replacement with aluminum too. Thanks again.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2016 F350 CC DRW

[Brown Lantern]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

...To be very frank, aluminum won't leak, so either process is "mechanically" the same. On my Cougar there are two "strips of DICOR" and a "bunch of blobs" over the screws. It's 4 years old and has never leaked. I wouldn't be concerned if the aluminum transition strip isn't completely covered with DICOR. That's a cosmetic not a waterproofing issue...

I disagree, its more than cosmetic. It may have zero to do with his current issue but complete coverage would insure a better seal, Eternabond even better. The same reason they completely cover a flat asphalt roof with tar instead of just the fasteners. But, to each his own. Mine is completely covered with DICOR and when the warranty expires it will completely covered with Eternabond. Water is not gonna kill my RV without a fight.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Brown Lantern

I disagree, its more than cosmetic. It may have zero to do with his current issue but complete coverage would insure a better seal, Eternabond even better. The same reason they completely cover a flat asphalt roof with tar instead of just the fasteners. But, to each his own. Mine is completely covered with DICOR and when the warranty expires it will completely covered with Eternabond. Water is not gonna kill my RV without a fight.

Your opinion and you're definitely entitled to it. BTW, when you can get water to flow through aluminum, I'll agree with you, until then, there's two opinions... Let's let it be that way without discourse, OK?

[Brown Lantern]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Your opinion and you're definitely entitled to it. BTW, when you can get water to flow through aluminum, I'll agree with you, until then, there's two opinions... Let's let it be that way without discourse, OK?

Sure [emoji4] it's not the aluminum I was thinking of leaking it was all the gaps around it.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

[chuckster57]

I am a tech and have been on the roofs of a lot of different brands. Completely covered is more common, but I have seen both methods used and I personally haven't seen a customer bring a unit in for leaking under warranty. I would advise against eternabond tape, I've seen screws break or back out. Repair is easy if all you do is peel off some Dicor. Eternabond doesn't come off without tearing the membrane.

[Path2ground]

My TT did it as well shortly after purchasing. Took it to Camping World to inspect; they said that the gelcoat front ends move a lot. There was no water intrusion either. They said don't worry about it unless it continues to get worse. Personally I think air was getting under it while driving, which was causing it. In the four years that I've owned it , hasn't been an issue though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk