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Old 09-23-2018, 12:24 PM   #1
Kzneft
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Almost had FIRE in cargo area

Came home from our last trip and parked the RV. A month later we are ready to head out again. Filled the water, gas, and propane tanks. Opened the CUBBY area on my Carbon and noticed the little light they put in the cubby area was still on! I guess my lawn chairs or something must have moved from the ride back and turned on the light. Well as most of you know they put those cheap lights in there that have a halogen light bulb. Also as you probably know they get hotter then hell ! Well it melted the plastic (see pic) and was touching one of my lawn chairs and burning it. I think I was lucky not to have caught my RV on fire and you know with the propane tanks in the front of the cargo area it would have made a nice big fire. Changing it out for a LED one. You RV users might want to do the same thing ASAP !
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:43 PM   #2
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Thanks. After reading ordered led bulb. Better be safe then sorry. Cheap insurance.
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:51 AM   #3
77cruiser
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Good to know, I'm going to put in some LED's.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:03 AM   #4
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The bulb is a standard incandescent, not a halogen but they do create considerable heat. The best fix IMHO is a battery disconnect that kills EVERYTHING. A factory installed disconnect doesn't. If your unfamiliar with this search the forum you'll find plenty of reading material.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:52 AM   #5
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^^^ What flybouy said. Just remember, a "true battery disconnect" does disconnect EVERYTHING.... That means, if you install one, be sure it is turned ON when towing. Otherwise, you have no emergency braking action should your trailer disconnect. The breakaway switch is wired to the house battery in Keystone trailers, so your battery disconnect MUST be turned ON during towing to provide power to the brakes through the breakaway function.

So, don't install a "true battery disconnect switch" and turn it off for towing, thinking you're preventing the potential for a fire. You're also eliminating any emergency braking.

NOTE: This does not affect "normal braking" which comes through the umbilical, I'm speaking of "emergency braking" which is through the breakaway switch and the house battery.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:09 AM   #6
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John brings up an excellent point. You can circumvent this. If you install a battery disconnect on the positive battery cable then run the feed wire for the e brake upstream or on the battery side of the switch. If you search the forum you'll find much debate on connecting the disconnect on the positive or negative side. There is no "correct" way that I've seen authoritative proof for. I connected mine on the negative side out of convenience as the positive side has several cables on the battery terminal and from experience turning wrenches on cars for many years. A car battery is typically close to metal. If, while disconnecting the positive terminal the wrench contacts the frame it becomes an excellent welding rod. For me it doesn't matter as I turn it on to hitch up and travel with it on as I run the fridge on lp while traveling (uh-o another debate) And now I'll stand by as several will chime on the ills of my ways for disconnecting the negative side, and for running the fridge (AND while fueling at the diesel pump.) oh mercy, there I go again
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
John brings up an excellent point. You can circumvent this. If you install a battery disconnect on the positive battery cable then run the feed wire for the e brake upstream or on the battery side of the switch. If you search the forum you'll find much debate on connecting the disconnect on the positive or negative side. There is no "correct" way that I've seen authoritative proof for. I connected mine on the negative side out of convenience as the positive side has several cables on the battery terminal and from experience turning wrenches on cars for many years. A car battery is typically close to metal. If, while disconnecting the positive terminal the wrench contacts the frame it becomes an excellent welding rod. For me it doesn't matter as I turn it on to hitch up and travel with it on as I run the fridge on lp while traveling (uh-o another debate) And now I'll stand by as several will chime on the ills of my ways for disconnecting the negative side, and for running the fridge (AND while fueling at the diesel pump.) oh mercy, there I go again
I also disconnect the negative for the same reasons, less fireworks!.
And I've traveled with my fridge on propane for over 40 years, no fireworks!
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:39 AM   #8
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Our son had a hybrid rv (looks like a TT with fold out beds like a pop up) in which one of his kids left the light on over the bed (4 kids & wife are all afraid of the dark), folded up the bed & drive 200-300 miles stopped for a potty break, went inside & smelled smoke, opened that bed & that little light had burnt a hole about a foot diameter & still smoldering in that mattress, lucky not enough oxygen to do more than smolder.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:21 AM   #9
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Battery disconnect aside, which is a good idea, I think replacing the lamps with LEDs is the logical thing to do regardless of the disconnect or not. The OEM ligts in an RV, if not LEDs, will get hot enough to discolor/disfigure the plastic lens and literally bake the fixture where it plugs in if left on for just a few hours while the RV is in use. If you replace the lamps with LEDs you greatly reduce the draw on your battery and heat generation for the incandescent bulbs. You also almost eliminate the heat that caused the problem the OP encountered - in the event you "forgot" to turn off the disconnect - whether connected to the ground or positive side....
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:35 AM   #10
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Battery disconnect aside, which is a good idea, I think replacing the lamps with LEDs is the logical thing to do regardless of the disconnect or not. The OEM ligts in an RV, if not LEDs, will get hot enough to discolor/disfigure the plastic lens and literally bake the fixture where it plugs in if left on for just a few hours while the RV is in use. If you replace the lamps with LEDs you greatly reduce the draw on your battery and heat generation for the incandescent bulbs. You also almost eliminate the heat that caused the problem the OP encountered - in the event you "forgot" to turn off the disconnect - whether connected to the ground or positive side....
Completely agree on the led replacements, just makes sense. However, In my opinion, replacing all the lamps with led's doesn't negate their usefulness nor benefits of a properly installed disconnect.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:03 AM   #11
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Completely agree on the led replacements, just makes sense. However, In my opinion, replacing all the lamps with led's doesn't negate their usefulness nor benefits of a properly installed disconnect.

Yes, I agree on the disconnect. Didn't mean to imply that the LEDs would be an alternative for it. IMO the LEDs are something that needs to be done for any number of reasons, some mentioned above, but it is something that would be done "in addition" to the disconnect instead of in lieu of.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:00 AM   #12
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The biggest drawback to LED conversion is it can get VEEERRRY expensive! Plus unless you all have better longevity than I did out of the few LEDs I tried I can't afford them.
My 5er is almost 6 years old with incandescent/halogen bulbs that have been in since new fulltiming, the few LEDs, not the cheap ones from EBay, lasted about 2 months before they went completely out or most of the diodes were out.
Read any forum about the awning LEDs & how many have them burnt out & how many times they've been replaced. The new Redwood 5ers come standard with all LED fixtures that when they burn out you have to replace the entire fixture, bulbs not replaceable.
We don't boondock so battery conservation is not an issue, no thanks I'll stick to what I've got.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:43 PM   #13
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I installed an "after market" LED strip on our awning when we bought the trailer in 2013. It's still on the awning, all the LED's work and there's no problem with dimming or flickering. I think I paid $29 for it when I bought it, currently Amazon has it listed for $39 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As for the overhead lights, I bought them in 2010 when we bought our Springdale and took them out to use in the Cougar. I did have to buy more as there are significantly more lights in the Cougar, but the original LED's I bought 8 years ago are still going strong. I bought them from EBay and from Amazon, did not buy the "expensive ones" (I think they were 10 for $20) and have had no problems other than a couple that flickered when I first put them in. I changed those out and have the "flickering ones" for spares if needed, so far, not one failure.

To me (others probably have different opinions) the "key" is to buy LED arrays that are rated 12-24 VDC. DO NOT buy arrays rated at 12VDC because the converter in our trailers operates at 13.6 VDC and 13.2 VDC. That's a "sure fire way" to burn up any 12VDC rated LED's. Sort of like plugging in a 110 drill into a 220 outlet.....

As for buying the "expensive LED's, many people do that and, I suppose, if you have money to burn, why not.. Heck some people mow their own lawn, some hire a neighborhood kid and some hire a professional lawn service. There's various levels of paying for lawn service, so why not the same for LED's ???

TBH, virtually ALL LED's are manufactured in China. Some of the "expensive arrays" are assembled in the US (of Chinese components) and sell for 200-500% more than the "identical Chinese assembled product".... Sort of like hiring the neighborhood kid vs the professional lawn service. If both are using a TroyBilt lawn mower, the lawn "should be mowed the same"....

I've had excellent results with the LED's that I've bought, maybe it's luck, maybe it's knowing what not to buy.....
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:42 PM   #14
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^^^^^x2. I paid the same price as John. Put in about 40 of them. I had a lot of failures at first because I bought the 12v only - wrong thing to get. I replaced them all with 12-24vdc. I've had 2-3 fail in 3-4 years and I just carry spares if one starts flickering; the price is cheap enough that it doesn't matter...to me. Just got boxes (1 each) of 3528 and 5050 bulbs in to put in the trailer for our winter trip to FL as spares. Incandescents and halogen have several drawbacks and the LEDs few. Cost is not a factor if you buy the correct (price wise) bulbs. I wouldn't think about ever putting an incandescent bulb back in my trailer.....no more brown bases or lenses; no more heat from the lamps; no more converter kicking on as soon as I illuminate the trailer etc.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:46 PM   #15
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John is correct. Use and buy the ones rated for 11 to 18 volts, or some range like that. Not “12v”. I had the “12v” get hot enough to melt the solder out onto my hands as I’m removing them. Not fun.
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Old 09-24-2018, 11:59 PM   #16
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Swapped out all lights with LED, inside and out. The interior lights were similar to what John referenced and also installed $30 awning strip. Exterior lights are Bargman conversion fixtures except stop/turn/tail which were total fixture replacements. That was 4 years ago and have replaced two lamps inside over that time.
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:40 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=
And I've traveled with my fridge on propane for over 40 years, no fireworks![/QUOTE]

Man, that's one long trip!!!
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:54 PM   #18
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Installed LED's in our 5er about 2 years ago. Did a lot of research, and found someone who had spent a lot on research, and found what worked. I followed their recommendations, and haven't had an LED fail. Replaced all the bulbs on the interior - 12vdc and 120 VAC. What started the search was the vanity lights above the bathroom mirror. The previous owner had done repair where the bulbs had singed the ceiling. Those I replaced first. With LED lights, we can boondock longer before having to start the generator. Would recommend LED's
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Old 10-01-2018, 04:15 AM   #19
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Also installed LEDs in my previous 5er. But one thing about LEDs - they are not all created equal. I bought cheap ones, and I got what I paid for....
Within a few months about 25% of them stopped working.
Lesson? Do your research on LED bulbs so you don't have to do it all over again.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:37 PM   #20
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Just an update. I sent this to Keystone and they immediately called me, asked a lot of questions and were concerned about this. They were going to forward all the information and pictures to their electrical engineer. I was glad that they were also concerned. Hopefully all their RV's will switch everything over to LED.

For those who said I should have done the disconnect, you shouldn't have to. I normally plug it into an outlet at home to keep the batteries charged and there is power when I go into it. Many other people do that as well.

Here is a pic of the back side of the fixture.
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