RV Construction Quality

[FordFella]

I had learned about towing, payload, etc. But, thanks for bringing that up - there are many people that don't know how the numbers work.


I have seen the "delamination vs wood rot" as well. It seems to be "pick your poison." I am accustomed to working with wood, so it makes me think maybe I should get a traditional "stick and tin" model. So, when I do have an issue (which is bound to happen no matter what RV I have), I have a high likelihood of being able to fix it myself.


Anyone have any thoughts on the Palomino Puma XLE Lite 20MBC ? It appears to be a stick and tin version of the Passport 239ML.....

[Free88]

It seems to me that luck is by far the greatest factor in determining how long your RV will last before it has minor, major, or catastrophic issues. Plenty of people buy the absolutely bottom of the barrel units and have them last 10 years with only minor issues at the most. Plenty buy mid- and top-end units and have major and catastrophic issues right from the get-go. I wish I could say get X kind of walls, and Y kind of flooring, and so forth, and save yourself the headaches, but thats just not the way it works out for these.

I would stay more focused on getting the layout that works for you, something your tow vehicle can handle well, something that has the look you want, and hits a price point.

Half-ton trucks are generally ok up to about 5000lbs, but you should not venture too much above that. I realize the brochure says they can tow higher than that, but it is mostly just marketing nonsense. Plenty of engine, but everything else will be seriously lacking.

[Rinsrig]

One of the things you may want to consider about the roof is that if you ever need maintenance, additions or anything else done to the roof, you will pay more if it cannot be walked on by RV tech's. The lack of being able to walk on the roof will take longer as they can only work from the side of the RV or from above it, requiring additional equipment and time to complete a job. I personally would not get an RV if I can't walk on the roof, it adds greatly to the structural support of the vehicle overall.

[busterbrown]

The Passport and Bullet lineups are Keystone's value-centered fiberglass coaches. With that, the build focus is on lightweight materials and construction. These brands offer good value for their respective price points.

As far as water intrusion, delamination, and rot, any brand, any floor plan, and any premium coach can experience destructive weather failures if proper routine maintenance is not performed. I can't count the number of times I've read on various social media platforms about how a 2 year old, $70k toyhauler or 5ver has developed a weak floor in the garage or bubbles in the exterior fiberglass walls.

Does it matter which day of the week the RV was made? Or does it matter if a coach was a pre-order or a unit to sit on dealer's sales lot? Or what if the influencing factor on how well (or poorly) the roof membrane sealant was applied is how the line worker is coping with his full blown upper respiratory infection the day a coach is assembled? In the end, the buyer will never know how well his or her RV is "put together".

All prospective buyers and owners can do is mitigate the risk of a owning a lemon by doing a thorough walkthrough (preferred dealers will already have completed a detailed PDI) and continuing on coarse with regular interval maintenance and inspections. As I like to say, a $10 tube of Dicor is cheap insurance.

[Mikendebbie]

Several years ago when DW and I were shopping for travel trailers, or maybe we were looking at truck campers...don’t remember, but we were impressed by Lance travel trailers. They were more expensive than what we wanted to spend but they looked like a quality product. I have never done any research on them or talked to an owner - but we were impressed by what we saw on the lot...just throwing Lance out there as food for thought.

[chuckster57]

I can speak to the factory order vs. buying off the lot, if it’s a factory order it’s just about guaranteed to have a LOT of issues that a “stock” unit on the lot doesn’t have.

I believe they “slam them through” because that unit is pretty much “paid for” so it’s guaranteed income for the factory. I see it pretty much across the board, both towables and driveables.

[JRTJH]

When we bought our Cougar, the dealer, who is also a friend, suggested we not special order a trailer, rather that we change the options that are on one that the factory already had scheduled for delivery. His reasoning for doing that was that we'd get a "normally scheduled production trailer" not a "added into the schedule trailer".

If you read back through the comments from people who have visited the factory for tours, the majority of them say that when they toured, the factory line was closed and little or no work was being done. The line runs on a quota basis, when workers finish the quota for the day, they go home. If the factory "adds another unit to the day's quota" it means they have to work longer, so the "mindset" becomes: "Slam 'em out so we still get off work at 1PM".....

I can't tell you whether the day mine was built, if there were "add-ons" or not, but I do know that mine was a "scheduled factory run" not a "penciled in add-on"...

Does it make a difference? Who knows, but something to consider.

[JGriff]

Have you looked at the Coachmen Apex Nano series ? Nice and lite with all aluminum frame with Azdel.
I purchased the 203 rbk and I am extremely happy. The workmanship is great, no plywood except under the dinette seats and the mattress.

[pdaniel]

Originally Posted by FordFella

Hello All -



I'm new to the forum, but have been researching RVs for some time. My wife and I are looking to get one in the near future with the hopes of vacationing out west (we live in Florida). My truck has a tow capacity of 7100 pounds, so I'm trying to keep the dry weight down to 4500 pounds or less.



The RV that seemed to have most of what we wanted/needed is the 2020 Keystone Passport 239ML. I like it's storage, layout, and it has a full 60x80 queen bed (I'm 6'4"). Additionally, there's a dealer I really like that carries this model. However, there's always an opinion of an RV that's "better."


It appears the Keystone has pinch rolled walls, foam in the floor, possible OSB in the floor construction, and no ladder because of a "no walk" roof - all of which I'm not a fan of.



I've looked at other RVs (Grand Design Imagine XLS 21BHE, Rockwood Mini Lite 2508, etc.) that appear to be better made, but who knows.


The main concern I have is delamination of the walls and other structure issues. I see posts saying vacuum bonded is supremely better than pinch rolled, but both can suffer delam.


I would appreciate any insight from those with knowledge and experience.


Also, is there any "extended warranty" that covers delamination? I haven't found one...

I have owned several RVs through the years. One of the better was made by a manufacturer longer in business-a 18 1/2 travel trailer.
Then two TTs from a manufacturer that no longer makes towables. Both, for entry level, were acceptable with the exception of having to fix new things-leaking plumbing, doors that would not latch, and for the last one, a water leak that caused many issues.
I owned a Keystone Cougar Xlite up until this spring. It was acceptable except a forced air heat system that was either not assembled correctly or engineered poorly. Then along with numerous gaps between plumbing and the under belly that allowed a lot of cold air in. However, we did like the Cougar.
We have now a Grand Design fifth wheel, a Solitude. Now, I know this is out of the capacity of your tow vehicle, but, the bottom line is, they all have the same quality issues-trim not stapled correctly and doors that need realigning and fasteners that need constant tightening.
If you keep the quality issues in perspective knowing these homes are subject to earthquake forces every time you move them down the highway and expect to do maintenance, the RV you choose will work out.
Look at the type of construction-some do use less expensive and light-weight materials. And that is expected when choosing a "1/2 Ton" towable.
Look at manufacturer support to you and the dealer (Keystone, are you listening? I'm still waiting for an answer to a question from 2 years ago). Are they responsive to your issues? Does that manufacturer really provide warranty support?
When shopping for an RV and the sales person says the RV has this feature and that item, have them show you physically (I got burned on my Cougar as it did not have what the sales critter stated-lesson learned).
Now, as I said, I have a Grand Design RV and could not be happier with the factory support of the RV (sorry Keystone RV).
Get what you like within your limitations and hope for the best like all of do when buying an RV.

[KeystoneKal]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

When we bought our Cougar, the dealer, who is also a friend, suggested we not special order a trailer, rather that we change the options that are on one that the factory already had scheduled for delivery. His reasoning for doing that was that we'd get a "normally scheduled production trailer" not a "added into the schedule trailer".

If you read back through the comments from people who have visited the factory for tours, the majority of them say that when they toured, the factory line was closed and little or no work was being done. The line runs on a quota basis, when workers finish the quota for the day, they go home. If the factory "adds another unit to the day's quota" it means they have to work longer, so the "mindset" becomes: "Slam 'em out so we still get off work at 1PM".....

I can't tell you whether the day mine was built, if there were "add-ons" or not, but I do know that mine was a "scheduled factory run" not a "penciled in add-on"...

Does it make a difference? Who knows, but something to consider.

On YouTube there is a video showing the the quota system in action on the assembly line at Jayco.
IMO towing is probably the biggest strain on a trailer. I’ve owned several new trailers that just sat at a seasonal campsite for years and have had no structural problems. Had a leaking faucet on my Hideout 30 RLDS.

[beeje]

It really does not matter what you buy. They are all junk. My favorite terms are they are made out of tooth picks and popsicle sticks. Having said that, they can last a really long time if they are well taken care of. That means paying EXTTREMLY close attention to the roof/caulking condition to ensure NO water ever enters the beneath it. All it takes is a pin hole to destroy a camper over time. This is the reason ours stays in a pole building under cover when not in use.

[jbrosecity]

Originally Posted by FordFella

I had sent an email earlier to Keystone asking some questions about the Passport's construction. I figured I would share the information I received...
<snip>
I was also advised to look at the 2017 Passport brochure since it showed the Passport's layers of construction. Here it is:
https://www.keystonerv.com/media/2259/passport-2017.pdf
I just thought this was worth sharing...

yeah thanks FordFella - Our new avalanche seems pretty well built. I was especially impressed with their factory video featuring their sidewall construction. I am no engineer, but stands to reason if they are that proud of their multi million dollar facility and their construction techniques, it must be pretty damn good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlUYUupOTMY

[FordFella]

Thanks for all the posts.


At this point, my list of possibilities (in no particular order) are:
Keystone Passport 239ML
Wildwood/Salem FSX 179DBK
Gulf Stream Ameri-Lite 248BH
Palomino Puma XLE Lite 20MBC


The Coachmen Apex Ultra Lite 226BH looked nice because of the Azdel, but when looking deeper, I found that their floors are made basically the same as the Passport (Luan, not Azdel). So, it may not be worth it...

[wiredgeorge]

One thing I noticed about the Passport was that it didn't have ducted A/C. If kiddos are back in that corner, might get a tad stuffy in warmer weather. Another point is that if this is your first RV, you might want to think about a used unit where you can sort out your REAL druthers which you won't figure out till you have been camping a few times. I have a 2002 Cougar 5th wheel and essentially no major issues other than brittle (easily replaced) plastic and the seals around my windows were shot and I replaced those. We liked the floor plan then made the camper ours by changing out furniture, custom mounting TV so you didn't have to break your neck to see it, putting in vinyl flooring (dogs) and a porcelain toilet (shape fits a man better). We also added a FULL QUEEN (was trailer queen) exactly like our mattress in the house (it is a king but same brand). Spent less than a grand to do this stuff and the trailer is rock solid and works for our needs. Spent $5K on the camper to begin with.

Campers are like exercise bikes... used once or twice and sit for awhile and then get sold for HUGE depreciated losses by the original owner. I LIKE used for that reason.