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Old 04-29-2017, 06:44 PM   #1
Smithlaw
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Fuzion 369 and Chevy 2500HD?

We have made the decision to move up from our Grand Design Imagine 3150 travel trailer and are moving up to a toy hauler. We have looked at many but my favorite two are the 2017 Fuzion 369 and the 2017Impact Triton 3551. My wife picks the Fuzion. My question is- will my Chevy 2500hd with the 6.6 Duramax pull it? We won't be buying a new vehicle anytime soon so I need to make sure the truck can handle the trailer. Thanks in advance!!
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:59 PM   #2
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A TH and a 2500 is not a match, your selected TH pin weight going to be around 3 K plus. Your payload on a 2500 is not near that. Check you label inside driver door for payload of your truck. Will not have to do much if any math. You are in 3500 range and I suggest a dually
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:00 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum!!

If I read the keystone website correctly the Fuzion 369 is a fifth wheel. If that's the case, your truck isn't going to be happy and your going to be overweight. Kingpin is 3120 pounds, and that alone is most likely more than your truck is rated for. If you have a short bed then you'll probably need a sliding hitch, adding about another 150 pounds in the bed.

Take your truck loaded with everything you would take camping. Go to a CAT scale, and then subtract your rear axle weight from the rear axle rating (found on the tag on the drivers door) and that's the legal limit.

I'm not going to argue the 3/4 ton is the same as 1 ton, the bottom line is the numbers (weights) should be your guide.
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:39 PM   #4
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Will or pull it? Yes. Will you be legal ? Absolutely not. Shop for a new trailer or a bigger truck. Or both. Lol.
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:53 PM   #5
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A TH and a 2500 is not a match, your selected TH pin weight going to be around 3 K plus. Your payload on a 2500 is not near that. Check you label inside driver door for payload of your truck. Will not have to do much if any math. You are in 3500 range and I suggest a dually
My truck has a hitch weight of 3000lbs so I am just over that at 3120 (I believe).

What if I put new springs (making it a 3500) and perhaps airbags?
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:25 PM   #6
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Do not think so, you need to look at the label inside the driver door to see what your truck payload is. Do not think you are going to see 3000 maybe around 2000. Remember that payload number is without hitch, driver. Passenger,etc You are not going to make a 2500 into a 3500!

I suggest you do a search on TV on the forum. Will find enough information for a nights reading. The questions you are asking have been addresses many a time
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:39 PM   #7
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The tiniest of most fifth wheels will overload most 2500s by the time you add a hitch and your family. That gobbles up a lot of your payload right there. All 2500s have a 10,000 gvwr. Most crew cab diesels weigh at least 7800. Maybe more. That leaves 2200 lbs. if you and your family hop in and your hitch is 200lbs let's call that 1000 lbs. that leaves you 1200 for the pin weight. Not happening. The lightest fifth wheel is probably 1500 of pin. You need a bigger truck.
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:30 AM   #8
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All three of the guys above told you what you didn't want to hear. All three were absolutely correct in what they said. These are experienced people who are in the know. (Don't tell them I said that) You have way too little truck to haul any large toy hauler, period. Adding springs, airbags, and any other little play-pretties out there will not change that number on your door post. Trade your truck and THEN shop for a new RV.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithlaw View Post
My truck has a hitch weight of 3000lbs so I am just over that at 3120 (I believe).

What if I put new springs (making it a 3500) and perhaps airbags?
Could you do this? Certainly. But unless you get someone to recertify it as a 3500, it's still a 2500 on the sticker and VIN.

Here is some very sound information from a blog on this subect:
The Truth about Altering Vehicle Weight Certification

vehicle cert label

On any RV forum you'll read statements such as "you cannot change the manufactures tow rating or carrying capacity" or "you may be able to change the capabilities of the truck, if you address all weak links in the chain, but you cannot change the manufacturer's rating."

The big question is, is there any part of this assertion true?

One RV related forum had a brief and incomplete discussion referring to 49 CFR 567.7 - Requirements for Person Who Alter Certified Vehicles. For the layman reader, it could be interpreted as an avenue for an owner to modify the Certification Label. In order to obtain the legally correct answer, it required contacting a representative at NHTSA.

I had a very informative conversation with John at NHTSA. John confirmed that 49 CFR 567.7 DOES NOT apply to the consumer or individual vehicle owner. The law basically applies only to the manufacturer or an authorized vehicle "alterer."

The Legal definition: "Alterer means a person who alters by addition, substitution, or removal of components (other than readily attachable components) a certified vehicle before the first purchase of the vehicle other than for resale."

An "Alterer" approved by NHTSA may modify vehicles following very strict guidelines. Upon completion of a vehicle alteration, an additional label must be applied near and not covering the Original Equipment Manufacturer's (OEM) Certification Label. The additional label may appear similar to the following example:


When reading any type of vehicle related forum, it's obvious that thousands of owners modify their vehicles to improve the load capacities or performance with manufacturer certified components. Owners commonly add aftermarket products such as air lift systems, helper springs, and higher capacity wheels and/or tires, as well as improving the rear end gear ratio or upgrading the transmission, etcetera. Any or all these modifications may improve the vehicle towing or load capacity, or performance.

John and I discussed the fact that vehicle owners do modify vehicles and he stated there is no prohibition to do so. But he did emphasize that those changes will not change the OEM Certification Label ratings. He also noted that there is no prevision for NHTSA to enforce compliance on consumers as well. He went on to say that consumers automatically assume legal responsibility for all modifications made to a vehicle and they must endure the risk. John also shared that one of the strongest safety concerns that NHTSA has for owners is failure to actually improve the weakest link in vehicle load requirements which could result in dangerous driving condition.

One of the most important keys for anyone who alterers a vehicle is they must assume legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities.


The bottom line is this:
Whatever vehicle modification you install, travel safely on the highway using certified manufacturer's components and assume responsibility. (Read this as: You are on your own with your decision and the consequences, intended or not)
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:03 AM   #10
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I do appreciate all of the feedback you guys have provided. Everyone says get a bigger truck. What do most consider a big enough truck? F350 or 3500HD? I've always been told a 1 ton is the same as a 3/4 with just heavier springs.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:11 AM   #11
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I went throught the very same thing last late summer/early fall....thinking.."I've got a 3/4 Ton Diesel, I should be able to buy/pull/handle almost any 5ver out there in my desired size (35' to 38' Toy Hauler). It took me about 5 minutes of looking to relize that I didn't buy enough truck 6 years previous. Yellow sticker on my truck said that I had 2150 lb of Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC for short). There wasn't one 5ver Toy Hauler that was under 2500# pin weight, which obviously would have overloaded me by a minimum of 350 to 400 lbs..AND that was before adding the 5ver hitch, passenger, cargo of all sorts, etc.

When I bought the truck back in late 2010, I knew absolutely nothing (well, maybe a little) about towing heavy, truck CCC, pin weight, etc., I just figured I could buy and pull whatever I wanted when the time came to buy a T.H. Imagine my surprise last fall when I figured it out.....no 5ver T.H. for me without getting a 1 Ton or even a 1 Ton Dually. Since that wasn't in the cards, I switched gears and ended up buying a 34.5 ft. tow behind T.H. and I'm very pleased with it.

Bottom line is what all the folks above ^^^^^^ have stated....you are looking at Waaaay to much trailer for the truck that you have. It not negotiable from a common sense standpoint, a "being legal" standpoint, or, and especially...a SAFETY standpoint. I was really kind of bummed out at first, having to "settle" for something that was not in my original plans, but now that I have the tow behind T.H., I really like it and as the old saying goes....when you get a batch of lemons, make a batch of lemonade.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithlaw View Post
I do appreciate all of the feedback you guys have provided. Everyone says get a bigger truck. What do most consider a big enough truck? F350 or 3500HD? I've always been told a 1 ton is the same as a 3/4 with just heavier springs.
Even if a 1 ton is the same, the federal tag on the drivers door says different, and that's the ONLY thing that really matters. A big enough truck is one that WITHOUT modification to the suspension, is rated to carry the weight and tow what your looking at. An F350/3500HD will probably suffice, but I wouldn't do it with less and I would use a DRW.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:23 AM   #13
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I do appreciate all of the feedback you guys have provided. Everyone says get a bigger truck. What do most consider a big enough truck? F350 or 3500HD? I've always been told a 1 ton is the same as a 3/4 with just heavier springs.
As far as getting a bigger truck, there are folks on here a lot more knowledgeable than I am, but let's say your new 5ver (one of the two you listed above) has a pin weight of 3100 lbs (and that is an "empty" pin weight number), that number will certainly go up when loaded. Add in the hitch (another 150 lbs or so) and you are at 3250 lbs....and that's still unloaded weight numbers. When everything is loaded and ready to roll down the road, you may be approaching 3800 to 4000 lbs of load on the truck. The yellow door sticker will tell you what kind of CCC you have available, and EVERY SINGLE thing that is put into the truck, counts against that available CCC. You are clearly into a likely scenario of a Dually. I'm sure some of the others will come along and help me out with this, as they are more knowledgeable about 1 Ton and 1 Ton Dually weight capacities..
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:32 AM   #14
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Will or pull it? Yes. Will you be legal ? Absolutely not. Shop for a new trailer or a bigger truck. Or both. Lol.
Pull yes, Carry it NO way! With a 3,100# pin, time for a new TV a DRW for sure. That 5er is beyond even a 3500 SRW!
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:33 AM   #15
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Advertised Weight Numbers Carry NO WEIGHT!

Keep in mind that the advertising brochures for either a truck or a trailer MEAN NOTHING! The only things that count are the actual certification stickers on the actual truck and trailer for that specific truck and trailer. The advertisements are for stripped down models in absolute best of conditions to weigh them to get the biggest numbers possible and do not take into account anything added to the truck and trailer except bare bones required equipment. The brochure numbers are for selling vehicles and in the real world, they are a fairy tale. Let the buyer beware!
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:49 AM   #16
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I do appreciate all of the feedback you guys have provided. Everyone says get a bigger truck. What do most consider a big enough truck? F350 or 3500HD? I've always been told a 1 ton is the same as a 3/4 with just heavier springs.

Well basically yes, BUT even 350/3500 SRW have limits! That 5er comes in at 17,000# too much even for a 350/3500 SRW!
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:05 AM   #17
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I would recommend a dually for any 5th wheel toy hauler.

I have a 1-ton SRW and the lack of dual wheels in the back is a huge limitation. You will never be able to support the higher payloads without having the dual wheel pairs out back. I have the smallest Fuzion available and I'm right at 100% GVWR on my SRW F350
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:32 AM   #18
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Thank you all for the reply as an education. I am definitely in the same boat xRated found himself in a few years ago. I grew up driving Dooley's pool and Cal trailers and the like but when I purchased our travel trailer I was under the impression I could pull it with the suburban. I then found out I needed to upgrade so I bought the big 2500 HD which is very large for my normal life and being my daily driver (I'm an attorney and often have limited parking at the courthouse and offices). There is no way I will be getting a duly anytime soon so I will have to change what I am looking for all together. Perhaps a toy hauler travel trailer but more than likely just a smaller regular fifth wheel. The toy hauler was really just for our golf cart anyway and my wife likes the regular fifth wheels better. It looks like we may have to stick to the bicycles and/or scooters or something!
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:36 AM   #19
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Your welcome. And it's always nice to have someone acknowledge the information given and consider it. There are lots of different trailers and fifth wheels out there so take your time and find the one that fits your needs while meeting the requirements of your truck.
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Old 04-30-2017, 07:01 AM   #20
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Glad to hear we could help before the purchase, many a time its a new RV owner asking "is this okay for my xxxx TV" after the purchase. Being an attorney you are fully aware of the legal aspects of this topic. We have a few members with non 5th wheel Toy Haulers, some you have already heard from. I am sure they can help answer any questions related to that version TH. Good Luck in findings the proper configuration to meet your needs.

Be Safe and Happy Camping
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