3/4 ton versus 1 ton

[SAD]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

SAD,

Your post reminds me of a situation that points to one of Ford's, "They didn't really do that, did they" moments when in the mid 80's they were denying warranty claims on steering/front axle related problems on trucks with 3" lift kits, yet they were installing 3" lift kits in their F150 line and calling it the "Southern Special"

There was a "sharp" lawyer in Alexandria that started comparing part numbers on front axle components and realized they were the same on "Ford" lifted and standard trucks. Ford "sort of" said, "Ok, we'll fix your truck, just bring it in... Oh and we'll even replace the tires for you as a good will gesture."

I used to have a MOPAR product that I totally customized for rock crawling. Took it all over the southwest to 4-wheeling events.

The only thing factory was the body and engine.

Tranny was gutted and rebuilt.... Tcase gone.... Cut/Ripped the entire suspension and steering totally off the vehicle - to the point of grinding down and repainting - you couldn't even see where the mount points were.... Replaced axles with custom units and hung them from a totally hand built suspension (front and rear).

At 80k miles.... I took it in to the dealer and had the water pump replaced and the replaced the a/c compressor - under factory extended warranty!

True story. LOL

[jonbiker]

During my discussions with the Dealer Service Tech, I was prepared to buy a 3500 SRW truck if the truck they sold me would not be OK with the new 5ver, so I accepted his recommendation about the helper springs. The trailer we towed last summer had a shipping weight plus carry capacity of 10,000#. On a CAT Scale, I weighed the truck (3 passengers & a dog, plus tool box with an air compressor, step ladder and 5' 2x8 to lift a side if necessary and full load for camping. I never carry fresh water in the tank). Steer Axle was 5,080#; Drive Axle was 5,420# Trailer Axel was 6,900#; Gross Weight was 17,400#. The new 5th wheel has a dry weight plus carry capacity of 12,095#. Adding the difference of the new 5th wheel less the old 5th wheel, 2,095# to the 17,400# will give me a gross weight of less than 20,000#. Not having the third passenger will subtract 150#. Other than the payload issue, does anyone see a problem with my towing the new 5er? I could not find the sales code, but the description of the truck matches.

[Festus2]

jonbiker -
Keep in mind that the advertised and stated dry weight of your unit may be quite different from its real, scaled, measured weight. It's pretty difficult to get real, accurate numbers if you haven't weighed both the old and new 5th wheel so that you are comparing apples to apples. I'm not sure if you have done this or whether you just scaled one of the 5th wheels. I believe most RVer's who have compared the manufacturer's advertised and posted dry weight after having weighed the RV, find that it is not that accurate and falls short of what the real weight actually is.

I don't know what the dealer service tech actually told you but if he said that your truck's payload/capacity would increase if you added these Super Springs and recommended that you buy and have them installed for that purpose, his recommendation is faulty.

[Charli]

Ahhh! The debate rages on. I had a 2008 Ram 2500, CTD and after hitting the scales this summer found I was over my GVWR of 9000# by about 500# pulling my x-lite 5er. While it pulled and handled fine we are looking to get a larger 5er so I started looking into mods. Airbags, helper springs, timbrens, deletes, chips. All the usual suspects. Lots do it and are very happy with the results. After many discussions with various "experts" we finally decided to switch trucks and got an F350 so now weights shouldn't be an issue.
The deciding factor was simply safety and the "what if" we get pulled over at a scale. I know the latter may be an obscure possibility but I don't want to be 2000 miles from home, in another country, and have my trailer impounded.
The whole weight issue is very confusing and made worse by the truck Mfg. They post towing and payload weights but it's all based on a base truck. Who buys a base truck. Once you add in all the options, driver, passengers, hitch you can easily take off 700-1000#. (How many drivers are 150#). At the end of the day a 1T SRW should be the starting point for pulling a 5er
Just my humble opinion

[therink]

Originally Posted by Charli

Ahhh! The debate rages on. I had a 2008 Ram 2500, CTD and after hitting the scales this summer found I was over my GVWR of 9000# by about 500# pulling my x-lite 5er. While it pulled and handled fine we are looking to get a larger 5er so I started looking into mods. Airbags, helper springs, timbrens, deletes, chips. All the usual suspects. Lots do it and are very happy with the results. After many discussions with various "experts" we finally decided to switch trucks and got an F350 so now weights shouldn't be an issue.
The deciding factor was simply safety and the "what if" we get pulled over at a scale. I know the latter may be an obscure possibility but I don't want to be 2000 miles from home, in another country, and have my trailer impounded.
The whole weight issue is very confusing and made worse by the truck Mfg. They post towing and payload weights but it's all based on a base truck. Who buys a base truck. Once you add in all the options, driver, passengers, hitch you can easily take off 700-1000#. (How many drivers are 150#). At the end of the day a 1T SRW should be the starting point for pulling a 5er
Just my humble opinion

I agree. Any fifth wheel with gvwr over 10k will have at least a 2000 lb pin weight. Two yrs ago I upgraded to a SRW 1 ton with a 3900 lb payload rating and am now well within my trucks ratings. With my 12k fiver I was about 500 over the gvwr in my previous 3/4 ton. It towed fine but with my family on board, I just didn't feel, right about pushing the limits.

[antiqfreq]

Our 2003 F250 towed and tows our fiver just fine.

We put air bags on it just to keep it more level.

Our biggest concern was if we needed a long bed or a short bed & we went with the short bed with the super glide automatic hitch.

We towed it over 15,000 miles approximately in 2011 and no problems and we went over some pretty awesome mountains.

Did she max out, sure, but still did the job and did it without a problem.

Jo

Would I love a dually, yeah, or an F450, yeah, but I'd like to save my money if possible. Our tow capacity is 13,500 and we are not over that as out fiver weighs in at 11,500 fully loaded. We have a tool box with 2 gens in it when we tow with 2 extra 5 gallon cans in the back bed.

[Jim W]

Jonbiker; you really won’t know the actual loads until the truck and new trailer are weighed as equipped for camping. But you are close to being overweight on the GCVW of the truck with the new trailer. As some have stated the only difference for your model year is the additional of one leaf spring between the 3500 and 2500 models trucks. One area that you can improve on the truck for a little extra cost is to change the tires and rims to a 19.5” size tire. You can buy a load range G tire in the 19.5” that will adequately support the extra weight of this trailer. See this thread from Turbo Diesel Registrer. Com.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/f...Tire-Selection

Jim W.

[jonbiker]

Thanks a lot to Festus2, JimW, and therink. You just caused me to spend a lot to upgrade my TV. No, really, I do thank you for your input and concerns. I just signed to order a 3500 srw Laramie LB, spray in bedliner, tow package w/factory hitch, and all the goodies. Am I OK now?

Since I bot the Montana HC in October I have been concerned with the Payload capacity. Every RV Park on our trip west this past summer, I asked to see the yellow door sticker on 2500s I could find. None were satisfactory for a larger RV. Fortunately, I have the cash to trade up and give me real peace of mind with the extra weights. I really did not want to go with a dually again. SRW is just easier all around.

I towed a Mobile Suites for 2 trips west with my 2003 3500 and the CAT scale showed 25,660# gross. This exceeded the truck capacity, but I was getting 11.5 mpg and the mountains were no problems. I guess I was lucky. A smaller truck now gives me more concerns.

Hopefully the truck will come in before we leave for TN at the beginning of April. Our first trip with the new RV will be around April 24th and I will go to a CAT scale to do all the weighing.

[Festus2]

jonbiker -
Try to think of it as a wise investment which should provide you with peace of mind now knowing that you can head down the road and not having to be asking yourself, "Are we overweight?. Will we be safe towing this thing?"
Yes, you're "good to go" and I firmly believe that you have made the right decision.

Enjoy your new Laramie.

[therink]

Glad to hear your choice made and so happy we made you spend lots of $$. No, really happy you made rightcchoice. You won't regret it.

[Jim W]

One of the best towing trucks made today on the market for sale. Now I would recommend that you look into joining Turbo Diesel Register.Com. This site is full of information and technical information on the Ram Cummins trucks. I have been a member since Feb 08 after purchasing my 08 Ram Cummins truck.

Here is a link to it. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/info.htm

Jim W.

[jonbiker]

Originally Posted by Jim W

One of the best towing trucks made today on the market for sale. Now I would recommend that you look into joining Turbo Diesel Register.Com. This site is full of information and technical information on the Ram Cummins trucks. I have been a member since Feb 08 after purchasing my 08 Ram Cummins truck.

Here is a link to it. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/info.htm

Jim W.

I have been a member since Oct 2012. Lots of great info. I posted a lot on the thread for tow mirrors since my 2012 2500 did not come with tow mirrors. 3 dealers in 3 states said my truck could not have OEM tow mirrors without blowing the door modules. I had them installed expecting to make manual adjustments, but the service rep came out and said they hooked up to the electronics just fine. With my 3500 SRW on order, I should be way under the limits.

[Povo]

Okay, since my initial post in this thread I have continued my journey of discovery. The following statement is probably well known to most of you but it was not to me: All 3/4 tons are not created equal (I know, duh!). I allowed my reasoning to stop with the differences (or lack thereof) between one & 3/4 tons. Once I took a closer look at towing capacities, gear ratios, GVWR, GCVW, GAWR, hitch pin weight, maximum payload, 5ver shipping weight & carrying capacity, (I've learned a lot in the past month or so) I find I have way too little truck.

Finding the towing capacity for my 2008 Ram was a project in itself. You would think it would be easy but I kept getting conflicting numbers. Finally I talked to the dealer I bought it from, Dave Smith in Idaho, (not my local dealer who wasn't much help) who looked up my actual truck. 8900lbs with a gear ratio of 3.73. Not what I wanted to hear. My 327 RES has a shipping weight of 10,160 and a carrying capacity of 1795 for a total of 11,915.

So now I need a new truck and the same mistake won't happen twice. Was hoping to keep my (paid off) 2008 but this next one should be the one that can last a long time I. Fortunately my current rig is in perfect shape with low miles so it has a great resale value.

Here's is what I am looking at. I prefer gas as I also use this for my every day vehicle. I think I have done all the possible calculations and have been very conservative with room to spare. So here goes: 2014 Ram Laramie short box (I like to keep my rig in the garage and this is what fits) 4x4, 6.4 liter Hemi, 4.1 gear ratio. Towing capacity 15,450, payload 3144, GCVW 22,500, curb weight 6850, GRAWR 6500, vehicle rear axle weight 2910. Estimating my hitch pin weight between 1787 & 2383 (15-20% of shipping weight + carrying capacity), hitch 150-200lbs (guessing as I haven't decided on a hitch yet), additional weight in the truck at 500lbs (me & my wife maybe 350, 50lbs of dogs, maybe another 100lbs of stuff (not likely from five years of experience but I'd rather go high). Even at maximum levels I should be well under in towing capacity and all weight ratings. I won't go through all my math but if anyone sees fault with my reasoning or math please speak up.

There is one issue still being addressed before pulling the trigger and ordering the truck - making sure a fifth wheel hitch can actually be installed on the new (as of 2013) Ram frame. That is probably a whole other thread with conflicting information from Pullright, Curt, and Reese. Our local, extremely well reputed, non-RV dealer, RV experts are making sure what my options are. Apparently last year people were buying the new 2013 model only to find there was no hitch that could be installed on it. And it still seems to be an issue but these guys know their stuff and I will be able to trust their advice.

Life (and RVing) is an adventure!

[therink]

Looks like you have done your homework. Well done. Glad you are going with the 4:10 axle. Is this a 3/4 ton? If ordering from factory, any reason you aren't going with the 1 ton srw for a few hundred more? I went with the 1 ton srw gasser with 4:10 and glad I did. My fiver weighs in at 12280 and I am riding well within the ratings with a good safety factor.

[Povo]

I think your are right - this is something I should consider. However when I go to the web site it allows me to build it in a one ton with the options I want, but when I look at the towing guide it doesn't show any one tons that aren't a dually. I'd really like to know the specs on it. What do you think I will gain?

[Povo]

Just found it. Looks like moving to a one ton I mainly pick up about 900lbs payload and 500lbs of GRAWR (6500 to 7000). Not much else changes except an increase of 800lbs GVWR. I think if the price isn't much different (and I don't think it will be) that will be a good way to go.

[therink]

That about what I gained with my Silverado. I went from a 3/4 Silverado and the towing difference was substantial. Must better handling and more spring, so smoother riding. The springs were about maxed on my 3/4. I think my price difference was around $700.

[therink]

Almost forgot. Having a 1 ton would them make you an official member of The Weight Police Club.

[Povo]

Do I get a badge? Almost forgot - I seem to remember my RV guys (for the hitch) said it was specifically the 3/4 ton model that may still have issues. So an added plus as I think it will solve my hitch limitation issues. I'll find out when I talk to them tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

[scuba0331]

Just ordered a 2014 Ram 3500 Diesel! Going from the Ram 1500 to this should be night and day when I pull the camper. My current rig is a Keystone Outback 26RLS. I should have no towing issues with this truck!

We plan on a 5th wheel in the next few years so now we have the truck to pull it.

Great thread by the way!