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07-06-2017, 08:49 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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3 air conditioners
My 2017 Fuzion 417 came with 3 air conditioners. You can only run 2 at a time. Further more you must run the middle unit and choose from the front or rear unit to help cool. There are only 2 breakers for the air conditioners. I want to run the front and rear air conditioners OR run all three. My question is how or where are they controlled? I know the thermostat tells what to run and when, but is there a way to run all three? I can 2 of them on a 30 amp hook up, so why am I not able to run all 3 on 50 amp? I understand I am going "on my own" here and keystone did what they did for a reason. Has anyone been able to run 3 ac's at a time?
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2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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07-06-2017, 06:36 PM
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#2
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,878
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The three unit rigs have a power control/management module built in to them to only allow 2 AC units to operate at a time. There has been discussion about this on the Forum in other posts. The power manager is supposed to rotate between the units to maintain the set temperatures. If you do a search, you will find several threads on this. I don't believe that any of them concluded that there was a way to run all three at the same time.
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Chip Bruce, RPh
Kansas City, MO
2016 Impact 312
2017 Silverado 3500HD SRW
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07-07-2017, 04:22 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,910
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You can add a 20A additional service, run it from the pedestal's 20A outlet, with a breaker dedicated to the 3rd unit. That's what I did with my Outback. It might void your warranty but maybe not if the dealer did the installation. I got tired of resetting breakers and added a second 30A service along with a 20A service strictly to run space heaters in cold weather. I requires some electrical knowledge if you do it yourself, but I'm in the marine business and I deal with shore power all the time.
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2011 Outback 277RL
2013 F250 XLT Crew Cab 6.2L
Bitter Gun Owner
Bitter Clinger
Armed Infidel
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07-07-2017, 06:46 AM
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#4
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Site Team | Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Western PA
Posts: 2,732
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As previously stated these 3 AC rigs have a power management system the run (power up) two ACs at a time, therefore only two breakers. And yes you will be on your own to do that rewiring to enable 3 ACs to be powered. Control circuit modifications will also be required. Worth it ????
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2013 RAPTOR 300MP w/Rear Patio Deck NO Folding Side Ladder
2013 Silverado 3500HD LTZ CC LB 4X4 DRW
Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel; Allison Trans
Reese 20K; Carlisle Radial Trail RH/HD; TPMS (12 Tires)
Veteran
PSU (GO LIONS)
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07-09-2017, 09:37 AM
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#5
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Landry
You can add a 20A additional service, run it from the pedestal's 20A outlet, with a breaker dedicated to the 3rd unit. That's what I did with my Outback. It might void your warranty but maybe not if the dealer did the installation. I got tired of resetting breakers and added a second 30A service along with a 20A service strictly to run space heaters in cold weather. I requires some electrical knowledge if you do it yourself, but I'm in the marine business and I deal with shore power all the time.
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I added a third ac (and circuit ) on my Outback too! It rocks being able to run three ac units at the same time!
Everyone calls mine the three-hump camel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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07-13-2017, 04:43 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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I took some stuff apart last night looking into how everything is controlled. It looks like the center unit has its own breaker. The front and rear units share a breaker. There is one romex wire that runs from that breaker up into the ceiling and I am guessing it is spliced at the top of that wall and goes to the front and rear units. They have 120 power all the time. I think the thermostat does all the controlling and load distribution. If I was to add a breaker (there is an empty spot) and tie it into the rear unit where the splice currently is and reconfigured the zone jumpers on the control boxes at each unit, I might be able to make this work. Any thoughts? I obviously understand to only run all 3 when plugged into 50 amp....
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2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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07-13-2017, 03:07 PM
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#7
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Gone Traveling
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Highland, IL
Posts: 512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racebug
I took some stuff apart last night looking into how everything is controlled. It looks like the center unit has its own breaker. The front and rear units share a breaker. There is one romex wire that runs from that breaker up into the ceiling and I am guessing it is spliced at the top of that wall and goes to the front and rear units. They have 120 power all the time. I think the thermostat does all the controlling and load distribution. If I was to add a breaker (there is an empty spot) and tie it into the rear unit where the splice currently is and reconfigured the zone jumpers on the control boxes at each unit, I might be able to make this work. Any thoughts? I obviously understand to only run all 3 when plugged into 50 amp....
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For sure. If each a/c unit has its own 120 volt circuit, you can run all three. At that point it is just a matter of fixing/removing the controller that switches between the two. If each one has its own thermostat they can run independently.
I added a third unit in a camper not designed for one. That meant I had to run power to it (in addition to cutting a hole in the roof and framing it). My main unit is connected to the ducts with a thermostat on the walk. The other two are direct dump units with the knob thermostat.
As an additional task I took on was adjusting the thermostat in the direct dump units. They always cycled off too soon... so I figured out how to adjust the thermostat. It is just a screw on the micro-switch. I can get the temp way cold even in 100+ degree temps!
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07-17-2017, 04:33 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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Found it. Wired one to the breaker and tied the other into the washer\dryer circuit since I don't plan on having a washer or dryer.
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2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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07-26-2017, 04:41 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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update: Best mod I could ever do to the toy hauler!! we were in a state park last weekend and it was 90 degrees and as humid as it could ever be. I was able to run all 3 AC's with the help of a 30+20 to 50 amp adaptor on a 30 amp plug in. never got above 70 degrees inside all day!
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2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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03-23-2018, 04:10 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: St. Amant, LA
Posts: 16
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So did you have to change anything in the thermostat to allow 3 A/C's to turn on at once?
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2017 F350 Lariat
2017 Raptor 398ts
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03-26-2018, 04:32 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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no, didn't change anything on the thermostat.
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2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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06-15-2018, 05:32 PM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Clarksville
Posts: 4
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I know this is a fairly old post but thought I would try - where did you find the control box that has both 120 lines coming into?? Thank you. Dave B
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07-11-2018, 03:06 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lanexa
Posts: 260
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On ours it was behind the lowest kitchen drawer, between the fridge and the stove. The main breaker panel is below the fridge right next to the dividing wall b/w the living room and garage. Once I removed the drawer it was accessible.
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Kevin -n- Lisa
17 Fuzion 325 / 15 Chevy 3500 HC DRW
06 HD Ultra Classic
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05-21-2019, 05:04 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctbruce
The three unit rigs have a power control/management module built in to them to only allow 2 AC units to operate at a time. There has been discussion about this on the Forum in other posts. The power manager is supposed to rotate between the units to maintain the set temperatures. If you do a search, you will find several threads on this. I don't believe that any of them concluded that there was a way to run all three at the same time.
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We just took delivery of a new 2018 Raptor 353TS that has 3 AC units and the "new" Omni-Chill feature. However, it still only runs 2 of 3 units at any one time, cycling between the bedroom and garage circuits with the main unit always on. So far, I'm not seeing any difference with the Omni-chill feature.
Brad
2017 F350 DRW
2018 Raptor 353TS
2019 Can Am Maverick Sport XRC
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05-21-2019, 05:21 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Clarksville
Posts: 4
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Way old post but we were talking about ac units on FB yesterday. I removed the power management box and added a 20 amp breaker to the panel. Now I can run all three air conditioners at the same time when on 50 amp. It was a blessing at Disney last year in the heat. I just have to make sure I shut one of them down when I run the onan generator.
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05-31-2019, 07:18 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Petersburg, KY
Posts: 276
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I can run all 3 on my built in generator (5500 watt I believe). Just don't start all 3 at the same time.
__________________
2017 Fuzion 417
2018 Ram 3500 Longhorn
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07-04-2019, 10:47 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson
Posts: 822
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This is an old thread, but still a current problem. We thought our 2018 trailer had the new "omni-chill" system - turns out it didn't. So we were faced with the issue of only being able to run 2 of the 3 AC units at any given time. Additionally, it would always run the main cabin + either the garage or bedroom. So when the garage is being used as a bedroom, someone is not getting AC!!!
Thanks to guidance from Racebug and others on this forum, we found an easy fix. Our trailer includes the same Precision Circuits Power Saver Switch referenced by Racebug in his post. In a 2018 Raptor 353TS, this switch was behind the fireplace just below the WFCO power center. The switch is a "dumb" switch - that is it requires NO external controls. If it senses current in the "primary" circuit (in our case the bedroom AC), it will not allow current in the "secondary" circuit (in our case the garage AC). If current is 0 in the primary, then the secondary can get line power. I've included the documentation and wiring diagram for this switch in this post.
Simple fix (for us): Lift off the faceplate of the fireplace and remove 4 screws for fireplace; set fireplace to the side and remove 2 screws for power saver switch cover. I removed the "secondary" wires from this switch and routed the wires into the WFCO power center just above it. I didn't have to cut or lengthen any wires. I hooked the garage AC wire up to share the 20A circuit for the washer/dryer area in the garage. We don't plan to ever install a washer; but if we do, it would mean that we would need to shut off the AC in the garage before we started the washer.
No other modifications were necessary. All 3 AC units now run including running them with the 5500 watt generator - my guess is that you couldn't run much else on the generator when you do this. You might want to shut off the breaker for the converter to delay any battery charging - in our case, the solar system keeps the batteries topped off so there is little demand on the converter. Make sure the fridge is on propane to minimize demand to only that necessary for the DC controls.
Wow - we ran 3 units for about an hour in Tucson when it was nearly 100 degrees and we could immediately tell how much better the AC system performed. This is the best modification I could ever make to an already great trailer.
00-10031-000-Power-Share-Switch-RevA.pdf
Trouble-Shooting-PSS.pdf
Hope this might help someone else - it's worth it IMO.
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07-10-2019, 10:25 AM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Apple Valley
Posts: 44
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Super excited to have found this, again! We bought the 2016 Fuzion with one of the main reasons being that it had 3 AC units.
We were in Needles, CA this weekend in 109° weather. We fiddled with the control unit and strategically place fans throughout the trailer to keep it just under 100° ugh!!!
I have this saved for the husband Weekend project time!!!
Thank you Racebug for sharing your fix to this awful problem.
Lisa
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Lisa
2016 Fuzion 414 Chrome
2015 Ford F350 Super Lariat 6.7 Diesel 4X4 Crew Cab
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07-16-2019, 07:44 PM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: San Angelo
Posts: 3
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Thanks for sharing!
I saw this thread a few days ago and took the time tonight to get it done. So far so good!
2018 Raptor 425TS
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08-09-2019, 06:34 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 471
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Done!
I’d also been planning this mod for my 414. I performed it tonight essentially the same way Lewis B did by wiring the Garage AC to share the washer/dryer breaker. The 414 has a poor arrangement in the garage with the sink outside the bathroom so I have no intention of adding a washer/dryer but should I decide to use it, I just have to remember not to run the AC at the same time.
On my unit, the WFCO is near the floor in a cabinet against the wall shared with the basement storage. My power saver device was behind the walling separating the storage from the protected area behind the convenience center and hot water heater. There was plenty of cable length to pull back the garage AC wiring from the secondary circuit on the power saver and push it into the WFCO power center and wire it in.
I’m posting a picture of something I was surprised to find during this project. I know I asked the dealer and Keystone via their contact number if the 2016 Fuzion had roof Solar prep. Answer? No. I guess they ran a cable through the tank vent anyway and left it tied up under the vent cap.
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2016 Fuzion 414 Chrome
2016 Ford F450 Super Duty King Ranch
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