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Old 12-25-2018, 03:14 PM   #1
daveinaz
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Loose furnace

After finally getting the sliders closed on our 2008 Montana 3400RL I took it back to the storage lot. When I got there I saw that the furnace (driver's side, behind wheels) was sticking out from the side of the unit about 1/2 an inch or so. I was able to push it back in so that it is flush, but I obviously need to secure it but I am wondering how it is secured. Some screws of some sort I am guessing?

Thanks again.
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Old 12-25-2018, 04:14 PM   #2
bobbecky
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If you remove the outside cover, there will probably be screws that are installed into the perimeter of the housing into the wall framing, and those screws may have come out, or were never installed properly.
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:47 PM   #3
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I would suggest that you do some very serious inspection around the furnace. If it is shifted out as much as you say, it could also have shifted the air box that acts as a distribution duct for all of your hot air ducting. That air box is mounted on the front (closest to the trailer centerline) and if it's torn away from the furnace or away from the ducting, then you may have a fire hazard at the heat exchanger.

Also, realize that there is a reason why the furnace shifted. It may be "missing screws the factory failed to install" but I doubt that on a 10 year old trailer. Chances are that kind of "omission" would have been found long before now. If it were me, I'd do some very serious inspection to make absolutely sure that the floor is not rotted under the furnace. Water can (and will) seep into the trailer from the furnace exhaust ports and can, over time, saturate the floor under the furnace, setting up a "perfect condition" for the wood to rot.

My guess is that you've got more than "missing screws" if the furnace in a 10 year old trailer shifted and needed to be pushed back into position.

After you inspect, let us know what you find, and good luck !!!!!
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:39 PM   #4
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I think John is on the right track. With a 10 year old RV with zero knowledge of the past maintenance/problems, the furnace "sticking out of the side" after a short drive back to the storage lot, and then you could just "push it in"??? I'm thinking that there could have been screws that came loose, worked out etc. because I've had lots of them. For everything retaining the furnace to "come loose" or "fall out" is a real issue.

As John pointed out the furnace is set in a position; all the ducts, vents etc. are all connected physically to it. When it shifts that far all the connections for the ducts etc. HAVE to have some impact. You need to pull the unit and thoroughly inspect every aspect of the installation. I'm afraid that you have some deterioration of the mounting surfaces due to lack of maintenance or ??
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:20 AM   #5
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Okay. I'm really an idiot. It's the hot water heater, not the furnace... DOH! I was just looking at the outside cover. Pulled the cover and it's the water heater.

It appears to only be attached at the bottom, allowing the top to come away from the RV side about 1/2 and inch. I guess I need to run some screws from the top and sides of the control housing into the wall of the RV somehow.

I winterized it yesterday and when I pulled the anode rod, it looks like it was never replaced by the previous owner. There was only about 1/8" of the rod left! I flushed out a LOT of white junk from the heater.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:08 PM   #6
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I'm sure it differs with brands and sizes of tanks but my Atwood has TWENTY screws around the outside flange holding the tank in. My tank is attached to that flange so if the flange has been pushing out from the side of the trailer it would mean the heater tank has been moving around as well if it's like mine. I would uncover the tank portion and make sure it hasn't caused any damage. Also, if the flange is pushing/pulling in and out like that I would detach it and put new butyl tape around it to seal it and stop any potential leaks.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinaz View Post
Okay. I'm really an idiot. It's the hot water heater, not the furnace... DOH! I was just looking at the outside cover. Pulled the cover and it's the water heater.

It appears to only be attached at the bottom, allowing the top to come away from the RV side about 1/2 and inch. I guess I need to run some screws from the top and sides of the control housing into the wall of the RV somehow.

I winterized it yesterday and when I pulled the anode rod, it looks like it was never replaced by the previous owner. There was only about 1/8" of the rod left! I flushed out a LOT of white junk from the heater.
OK, let's look at this from a "preventative maintenance" perspective.

First, the water heater is 10+ years old.
Second, you say the anode rod was completely consumed and the tank was full of crud.
Third, the water heater separated from the outside vertical wall of the trailer.
Fourth, the water heater tank is a steel tank with a porcelain liner protected only by the anode rod.
Fifth, the screws holding the water heater to the vertical wall are "missing"
Sixth, there are screws holding the water heater to the floor of the trailer basement, but the water heater moved out during towing.

So, looking at the above, I'd really suspect that you have a corroded water heater tank that is leaking into the Styrofoam tank covering and that has probably rotted the floor under the water heater. Additionally, as Danny said, there should be "more than just a few" screws around the flange of the water heater that hold it securely to the trailer wall. Behind that flange is a bead of butyl putty tape to prevent rain water leakage into the trailer "innerds".

If those flange screws are, as you say, missing, then you may have significant water leakage into the area around the water heater, which would be a second source for wood rot around the water heater installation.

I'd urge you to do a very thorough inspection with a bright light, not just a flashlight during the middle of the day, to make certain you do/don't have water damage under the water heater.

Most Suburban water heater tanks don't last much more than 10 years with frequent changeouts of the anode rod. If the rod was ignored and is "gone" then the tank may not last much more than 5 or 6 years.... Yours sounds like it may have "given up the ghost" and the shifting water heater may be a blessing in disguise in that it's a sign for you to check and repair damage now before it gets worse.....

I hope I'm wrong, but you really, REALLY need to make absolutely certain what you've got under and around that water heater with the fact that the anode is gone and the appliance is "shifting around on its installation......
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:39 PM   #8
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Yeah, you could be right. The thing is, there is no sign of any screws EVER being in the control housing to the wall. No screws or holes on the perimeter of the control housing. But like you said, something is amiss, and I need to see what's going on with a deeper inspection.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:35 PM   #9
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Yeah, you could be right. The thing is, there is no sign of any screws EVER being in the control housing to the wall. No screws or holes on the perimeter of the control housing. But like you said, something is amiss, and I need to see what's going on with a deeper inspection.
Well, today I took the frame off, and, as I suspected, no screws holding this thing into the wall!!

Someone decided to skip a step during installation!!
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:59 PM   #10
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Dave, looking at the pics it looks like there is a "trim ring" or something like that that goes around the exterior of the opening, is it not connected to the interior walls of the HWH? If not, are there screws inside the enclosure that attach the HWH to the RV framing? I don't have a heater like that so I'm not sure how it is attached. Something has to hold it in place.

Have you looked at it from the back to see what's there? Maybe the screws to attach it? It would also be a good place to check for water leakage as John had mentioned - use a bright light.

Looking at the front edges I'm concerned about water intrusion if the trim ring was just pushed out; water would just flow into that enclosure. I see no indication of any sealing material under the trim ring either. How does the trim ring attach to the HWH body; or does it?
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:52 PM   #11
daveinaz
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The trim ring just screws into the face of the HWH. According to Surburbans instructions, screws are supposed to be put into the sides of the wall opening through the HWH housing. And yes, as it is, there's nothing to prevent water intrusion..
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:37 PM   #12
sourdough
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Find the interior access to the heater so that you can see in detail how that enclosure looks. I don't see how it is not damaged if it has been like that for some period of time. I would look below the enclosure where the water would run and see if there is damage below the heater enclosure. I hope there is nothing but don't see how there couldn't be unless the trailer is enclosed all the time.

I don't see how the trim ring attaches to the water heater enclosure in the pictures I'm looking at. On ours the trim ring is attached but we don't remove it from the heater; I just pull all the screws between the trim ring and exterior wall, break the seal with the butyl and pull it out after disconnecting everything. If your trim ring was still attached to the heater would that be an avenue that would work for you?

I'm thinking you need to pull the heater and fully investigate the enclosure and supports, repair any damage (hopefully none) then reinstall properly with a good seal on that trim flange.
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:04 AM   #13
daveinaz
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Dave, looking at the pics it looks like there is a "trim ring" or something like that that goes around the exterior of the opening, is it not connected to the interior walls of the HWH? If not, are there screws inside the enclosure that attach the HWH to the RV framing? I don't have a heater like that so I'm not sure how it is attached. Something has to hold it in place.

Have you looked at it from the back to see what's there? Maybe the screws to attach it? It would also be a good place to check for water leakage as John had mentioned - use a bright light.

Looking at the front edges I'm concerned about water intrusion if the trim ring was just pushed out; water would just flow into that enclosure. I see no indication of any sealing material under the trim ring either. How does the trim ring attach to the HWH body; or does it?
What type of sealant do you recommend when I put this thing back together? Butyl tape for the outside where the frame goes on?
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:49 AM   #14
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You might try to find the serial number on the WH and then go to the manufacturer's website to determine when the WH was built. The pic you posted shows a relatively "pristine" WH enclosure without any signs of water minerals or discoloration of the zinc caused by corrosion that you would expect to find on an older WH. Perhaps the previous owner was a little OCD and regularly took a Brillo pad to the WH or it is a replacement WH that was not installed correctly.
I agree with the others. If It were mine, I would determine the condition of the WH tank and then decide whether or not to replace the unit. Either way, you need to seal that puppy up to prevent water damage.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:23 AM   #15
daveinaz
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You might try to find the serial number on the WH and then go to the manufacturer's website to determine when the WH was built. The pic you posted shows a relatively "pristine" WH enclosure without any signs of water minerals or discoloration of the zinc caused by corrosion that you would expect to find on an older WH. Perhaps the previous owner was a little OCD and regularly took a Brillo pad to the WH or it is a replacement WH that was not installed correctly.
I agree with the others. If It were mine, I would determine the condition of the WH tank and then decide whether or not to replace the unit. Either way, you need to seal that puppy up to prevent water damage.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing -- that it looked pretty shiny for a 10 year old water heater. I think that since the PO had the unit parked and wasn't pulling it, he just replaced the HWH and didn't bother screwing it in. As soon as I get the slideout working again, I will inspect from the inside and see what's going on.
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:10 AM   #16
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What type of sealant do you recommend when I put this thing back together? Butyl tape for the outside where the frame goes on?
Yes, I used butyl tape. I used white because it was the only color to be had within 2 hours of here when I replaced mine last spring. Mine has a black flange around it and wish I had used black but no such luck. The white has now accummulated enough "grime" to almost match the gray color of the exterior of the trailer. Get a roll that is about the width of your flange; I think mine was 3/4" if I recall.
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